Creature Handler Archive
Thread: What would it take to fix MCH?
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KzinKiller
Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:35 pm
#1
So, as pretty much everyone who's played CH or MCH for the last several months knows, it is a broken, crippled, neglected profession. The only thing "right" about the last major revision of the profession was the redistribution of pet control ability across the entire skillset, which minimized dabbling. But the way high-level pets were "broken" (armor crushed, high-levels rared out of existence) in anticipation of the Magic Combat Balance left the profession fundamentally broken for several months. Now that the Magic Balance is indefinitely on hold, MCH is also indefinitely broken.
So, rather than curse their darkness, let's light some candles.
If you're an MCH and want to continue being an MCH, tell us: what would fix MCH to make it playable again? Not exclusively for PvE or PvP, but regardless of which playstyle you prefer. MCH is currently very playable in PvE and pretty much a hopeless cripple in PvP.
1. Restore pet toughness
Give high-level pets back their medium armour. We can only have 1 out at a time, this would keep them from being tissue-paper in PvP as they are today. Give light armor back to mid-level pets, say CL 30-40.
2. Fix Pet Movement
Really nothing is more frustrating than the basic, simple stuff not working. If I say 'follow me', then don't stop following me until I tell you to stop. Don't vanish into thin air. Don't stop listening to me. Is that really so hard? I don't think so ... I just think it's never been enough of a priority to get it right. Make it one.
3. Make at least *some* wild pets equivalent to best BE pets.
I've never tried to make a living as a MCH, and thank goodness for that because there's no money in it. But some people would like to, and the only way that's possible if there are tameable wild creatures that are actually of some use to consumers at CL 10. There are none today ... if you're a non-CH, BE is the only real option. Give us a few CL 10's that are worth having, and certainly some CL 70's that are superior/equal to BE'd uber-critters.
4. Greater pet utility.
For the non-CH, they're worthless in combat and inferior as transportation to the vehicle options ... so they must have some other utility to be worth anything.
Cargo-carrying would be nice ... give us tailor-craftable saddles & panniers with a storage capacity of 10 or 15 items ... be nice if the pet could at least carry its own food and stims in the saddle.
More intelligent AI would be helpful ... have a pet Patrol between its patrol points and, if it encounters something, have it run back to its Master and report what it saw. I understand its nearly impossible at long ranges, but within 128m-256m should it be that hard?
Well that's it for me ... but I know it's only a starting point.
Let's hear it, MCH's ... what would/could/should "fix" MCH and make it playable again for non-hologrinders who want to do something besides kick butt in PvE?
marxo777
Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:53 pm
#2
I was all ready to vote on these but I think it would be easier to just
/sign
Mars
Spazzers
Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:11 pm
#3
Seiryuu makes some great points but they don't really relate directly to creature handler but more toward the game as a whole. I agree fixing the game as a whole helps creature handler but it doesn't make creature handler a desirable profession.
Restoring pet toughness is a no brainer. I would add a caveat though. If a wild CL70 animal has medium armor a bio-engineer should be able to make an animal with medium armor. You could then take it a step further and give droid engineers back their medium armor droids. With good pets a creature handler could actually participate in PvP. Restoring pets would eliminate the need to "balance" combat. Fixing the bugs in each profession would balance combat all by itself. Of course that would lead to fun and fun is a no no to SOE.
Get rid of that stupid pet transfer command and give a master creature handler a command that is worth something. Perhaps a command that transfers a portion of the player's stat to one of their pets. You would have to limit the amount of the stat being transferedand allow it to be applied toonly one animal at a time. The stat should wear off after a short time. You'd need a long timer between stat transfers to make it fair and balanced.Besides, how often do you actually use that transfer command? Removing the command would alsoallow novice creature handlers to sell and or tradeanimals in and amoungst themselves. Of course that might allow a creature handler to have a market for animals and we all know that's not allowed.
Seiryuu
Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:17 pm
#4
It is true most of my points do not relate directly to Creature Handler. The problem is, until these things are done, we will be ignored. We had our time and now the devs have moved on. There simply are not enough programmers to address our issues every publish while other professions are completely ignored.
Until these points are addressed, our problems will not be addressed.
Until these points are addressed, our problems will not be addressed.
SkyPreacher1
Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:14 am
#5
Kzin,
I think we have hashed through this a number of times but for the sake of the few who haven't we can repeat the process. The really sad thing is, the Devs don't care.
I think all of your stated objectives are true so I will just /sign under that.
Let me add a couple of ideas:
1) Mounts only on advanced planets. Think about it, how many people just go whizzing by aggroed spiders, rancors, nitesisters etc. on dath because they know they can just ride out of aggro range on a speeder. So eliminate speeders/vehicles from advanced planets. Give mounts on advanced planets a bonus in terrain negotiation. I think it should be a wild, scarry and exciting ride around all the aggros. Yes it is frustrating but it would give us back a way to make money.
2) Keep the learning tree the way it is, no problem there.
3) Just fix the bugs.
Dark_Sith_Avatar
Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:20 am
#6
/sign
I agree with everything said here wholeheartedly. Again, the DEV's are probably going to tell us to wait until publish 11 for the full combat balance, and then our pets will be good. I personally think we just need enough CH's to sign stuff like this, and send in tickets showing their concern for this profession.
Seiryuu
Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:31 am
#7
1) Push the combat balance through.
Restoring pet armor will not help because it will eventually be changed back to what it is now. The changes would have to be checked. Newer creatures would not have anything to revert back to. It would be a mess.
I am not one for conspiracy theories, but do you know why it has been pushed back, to probably occur after the space expansion? Because it will involve nerfing every single combat profession as hard as creatures were during Publish 5. There would be a mass exodus from all the upset people. Unless they are too busy flying space craft to care about their pistol....
2) Fix the BE crafting and validation system.
For the BEs, CHs and non-CHs, the pet that comes out of that deed needs to be the pet the person bought. Further, if it says CL 10, it better be a CL 10 pet. Having a system with a lot of variables to produce a pet is great. Having it be unstable and not following the rules established by the Great Rebalance is unacceptable and game-breaking.
3) Fix bugs before balancing and definately before adding any more content.
You cannot balance a system that is broken. Well, you can, except you destroy the balance by fixing the system, which means doing it all over again.
Adding content at the expense of fixing bugs is rediculous. No profession should remain broken and useless for a year while the devs are busy adding high-end content like dungeons. People playing these broken professions get nothing out of it because they cannot function while having to watch professions that work get even more. It is like the haves and have-nots with fun instead of money.
Squashing bugs should be priority #1 until the majority are fixed. I would love to see a publish (or two) called "The Exterminator Strikes Back" with no new content, just bug fixes.
4) Hire more programmers.
They keep pulling them for the space expansion. If I was told there are only three actual programmers working on the existing game, it would not surprise me. Rather, I would be surprised if I was told there were more.
Yes, SOE, it shows.
5) Quality Control.
Do not revert bugs that were squashed in previous patches. Do not ignore Test Center players. If they have a bug, follow up with them directly. Test your changes under a variety of circumstances.
They might be starting to listen now, but we will see if it continues and if it is enough. I fear it is too late to matter.
Restoring pet armor will not help because it will eventually be changed back to what it is now. The changes would have to be checked. Newer creatures would not have anything to revert back to. It would be a mess.
I am not one for conspiracy theories, but do you know why it has been pushed back, to probably occur after the space expansion? Because it will involve nerfing every single combat profession as hard as creatures were during Publish 5. There would be a mass exodus from all the upset people. Unless they are too busy flying space craft to care about their pistol....
2) Fix the BE crafting and validation system.
For the BEs, CHs and non-CHs, the pet that comes out of that deed needs to be the pet the person bought. Further, if it says CL 10, it better be a CL 10 pet. Having a system with a lot of variables to produce a pet is great. Having it be unstable and not following the rules established by the Great Rebalance is unacceptable and game-breaking.
3) Fix bugs before balancing and definately before adding any more content.
You cannot balance a system that is broken. Well, you can, except you destroy the balance by fixing the system, which means doing it all over again.
Adding content at the expense of fixing bugs is rediculous. No profession should remain broken and useless for a year while the devs are busy adding high-end content like dungeons. People playing these broken professions get nothing out of it because they cannot function while having to watch professions that work get even more. It is like the haves and have-nots with fun instead of money.
Squashing bugs should be priority #1 until the majority are fixed. I would love to see a publish (or two) called "The Exterminator Strikes Back" with no new content, just bug fixes.
4) Hire more programmers.
They keep pulling them for the space expansion. If I was told there are only three actual programmers working on the existing game, it would not surprise me. Rather, I would be surprised if I was told there were more.
Yes, SOE, it shows.
5) Quality Control.
Do not revert bugs that were squashed in previous patches. Do not ignore Test Center players. If they have a bug, follow up with them directly. Test your changes under a variety of circumstances.
They might be starting to listen now, but we will see if it continues and if it is enough. I fear it is too late to matter.
SioBabble
Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:39 am
#8
What Seiryuu said.
He's right about the combat balance, and I have it on good authority that he is on target on the stripping of personnel from the live game to work on the space expansion.
It's probably too late to matter, though. The only real reason I'm hanging around is that I play with a great group of friends, and I am getting more and more into RP to occupy my time.
Message Edited by SioBabble on 03-30-2004 12:40 PM
marxo777
Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:40 am
#9
Seiryuu wrote:
I am not one for conspiracy theories, but do you know why it has been pushed back, to probably occur after the space expansion? Because it will involve nerfing every single combat profession as hard as creatures were during Publish 5. There would be a mass exodus from all the upset people. Unless they are too busy flying space craft to care about their pistol....
Bingo and again bingo!!!
Mars
Barb-Wire
Wed Mar 31, 2004 6:12 am
#10
the REAL problem we face is not gaining combat damage back that wont happen at all. what we face is the fact that we were balanced witht he combat changes in mind and those changes as they were known at the time of CH balance/nerf are no longer on the board... i hope folks are not missing that huge point
Seiryuu
Wed Mar 31, 2004 2:27 pm
#11
I'm not missing it all, Barb. 
It is point number One of mine. I started (rare for me despite my post count) a post on that very subject last week, in fact.
It is point number One of mine. I started (rare for me despite my post count) a post on that very subject last week, in fact.
KzinKiller
Wed Mar 31, 2004 4:17 pm
#12
what we face is the fact that we were balanced witht he combat changes in mind and those changes as they were known at the time of CH balance/nerf are no longer on the board... i hope folks are not missing that huge point
Emphasized in my very first paragraph, Barb ... and when I talk about "restoring" armour & toughness to pets, I'm talking about un-doing the damage they did by 'balancing' us without 'balancing' other classes, until they decide if they ARE going to implement 'balancing' in other classes.
They acknowledged at the time that they were 'breaking' us but assured us it would only be short-term until the balance modified everyone else. Obviously they were unable to accomplish that, so all they managed to do was cripple us. Mostly what I'm asking is that they UN-cripple us until they decide what they're doing with the rest of the Magic Balance.
We shouldn't have to wait any longer for them to acknowledge how badly they screwed up this profession with changes that anticipated other changes that haven't occurred and may never occur. Quit fiddling while we burn, that's all I'm asking.
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