Creature Handler Archive

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BlindTyldak wrote:

Well, you know I agree with you completely.

The problem comes down to we are also the only combat class that allows you to use another weapon at the same time. This is the real sticking point. Unfortunately what the developers decided to do was relegate it to a very expensive support class, when what they should have dome was retain it as a combat class but ballance it by somehow not allowing elite combat professions to combine with it. My personal choice would be to expand the class and have it take more skill points, but a simple code that disables elite combat profession novice boxes would do the trick as well.

Either wany, it does need to be recognized as a separate combat profession, not a "skill points for armor that distracts things" profession.

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I agree with you.

"Creature Handler is a combat profession" - Raph Koster

So does the guy that designed the game.

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Dapper_Dan wrote:

The problem was that, when I was a master CH/Pistols, I could kill faster with no pets than with. Reason being, the dang pets would run off, and warp a lot of times, just outside of attack range. When I was alone, I could at least stay with in pistol range of the mob I was attacking.

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DaBudo2 wrote:

Futhermore, it isa pure combat profession.

I have to disagree with this part. I feel CH's can be best compared to Squad Leaders. A Squad Leader is without a doubt a combat profession there is no other way for a SL to get XP other than to fight. CH you could (though it would take years) go through the profession without ever attacking anything.

Keep in mind, though,thatwhether or not CH is an effective combat profession is another issue entirely.

Is CH a combat profession or a support profession? Let's first define our terms.

- "A combat profession is one thatprovides skills/weapons for the express purpose of allowing one to engage in combat."

Yes? No?

- "A support profession has no skills/weapons allowing one to engage in combat but ratherprovides skills/tools that enable other professions to function more effectively."

Yes? No?

Examples of support professions that do not have skills/weapons allowing one to engage in combat:

architect, artisan, politician (mudslining does not count as combat ), entertainer, medic (combat medic excepted).

Examples of combat professions that do have skills/weapons allowing them to engage in combat:

Rifleman, Pistoleer, Fencer, Teras Kasi, Bounty Hunter.

Again where would SL fit into this example?

What people either overlook or will not acknowledge isthat the Creature Handler profession does, in fact, provide weapons allowing one to engage in combat. Obviously, the weapons are the pets. Pets have one primary purpose: to fight. (That they are also companions is a secondary benefit). What is one of the first commands a novice CH gets? Attack. What is a primary way a CH gains experience? Using their pets to attack and kill. There is NO support class (well, certainly none I can think of) that gains experience through fighting/killing.

Is there really any difference between someone pulling a triggerand someone sending a pet?In either instance, a weapon is being used.It just sohappens that one weapon is inanimate and the other is alive. Again -if CH is an effective combat profession, or even if pets are effective as a weapon, is all together another issue. ButCH is a combat profession.As such, it should have the chance to compete asany othercombat profession.

A big problem with this way of thinking is that you can use a CH skills at the same time you can use your pistoleer/TKM etc. This would be like if I were a Pistoleer/Rifleman being able to use Mind Shot 3 with my D-10 Pistol, or getting my accuracy while moving bonuswith my T-21. If CH were made just as effective as a these other combat professions, it would be the same thing. So while I agree that CH is a combat profession, I don't think it should be as effective as pistoleer, TKA etc.

In one old thread, someone referred to CH as animal trainers. Well, true. So? Marksman train to learn to use a weapon.Unarmed train their bodies to be a weapon. A CH trains his pet as the weapon.

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Hope this was a friendly enough rebuttle

Squad Leader is a true Combat Support profession. It directly aids others in combat.

Creature Handler costs more skill points than any of the one-line brawler or marksman professions. If we are not as effective at combat as they are, then we need to be very effective elsewhere. Only we have nothing else we are capable of.

The problem has a couple of easy solutions:

1) Don't let us use another combat profession while using a pet and let pets be worth that skill point investment.

2) Give my pets a boost if I am peaced out or not in combat. Since I am focused on directing them, it makes sense. I can't be using my other professions' weapons, so why should I not be as effective in this situation?

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Seiryuu wrote:
Squad Leader is a true Combat Support profession. It directly aids others in combat.

Creature Handler costs more skill points than any of the one-line brawler or marksman professions. If we are not as effective at combat as they are, then we need to be very effective elsewhere. Only we have nothing else we are capable of.

and you can pick up one of these combat professions to go with CH. You can't expect a MCH/Dancer to be as effective in combatas a MBH/pistoleer. This is the point of the profession system isn't it? You pick which skills would be most useful to your template, and each skill should be looked at in terms of how it complements the other skills you have.

imo the profession with the biggest problems is Ranger as the point req is so high you're not really capable of getting enough combat skill to take on anything whereas MCH gives my character a massive bonus to PvE missions.

The problem has a couple of easy solutions:

1) Don't let us use another combat profession while using a pet and let pets be worth that skill point investment.

this would make CH useless to me and I'd drop in an instant.

2) Give my pets a boost if I am peaced out or not in combat. Since I am focused on directing them, it makes sense. I can't be using my other professions' weapons, so why should I not be as effective in this situation?

How on earth can you say CHshould bea pure combat profession that is most effective when you are not in combat? What happens if you get aggro while your pets are in a fight, should they disappear or become weaker?

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Seiryuu wrote:
Squad Leader is a true Combat Support profession. It directly aids others in combat.

You do realize you have just described exactly what CH does right?

SOE would never limit anyone by saying that if you take CH you can't take any other combat profession. It goes against everything they were trying to accomplish with this game and the skill point system that they use.

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and you can pick up one of these combat professions to go with CH. You can't expect a MCH/Dancer to be as effective in combat as a MBH/pistoleer.

A MCH should never be as powerful as a MBH because the bounty hunter requires more skill points.

A MCH should be more powerful than a master pistoleer because creature handler takes more skill points. A profession should be able to stand on its own, not be required to take something else to be effective.

If some synergy between profession produces an unstoppable combination, the combination needs to be looked at, not one profession or the other reduced into uselessness on its own. Why is this such a bad thing?

this would make CH useless to me and I'd drop in an instant.

I would have to say good then. You are using Creature Handler to make your other profession "uber" instead of taking Creature Handler because you want to be a Creature Handler.

If you like being a Creature Handler, then why are you opposed to it being able to stand on its own?

How on earth can you say CH should be a pure combat profession that is most effective when you are not in combat? What happens if you get aggro while your pets are in a fight, should they disappear or become weaker?

Because the pet is in combat.

Reread what I wrote. "If I am peaced out or not in combat." I said peaced out specifically because I realize people gain aggro. If I am trying to not be in combat, then you are correct, my pets should not be reduced in their maximum effectiveness.

There are other ways to simulate this such as requiring a CH "weapon" such as a quirt (riding crop) or something similar being equipped. While equipped your pets can gain defensive and offensive bonuses. With the new five second weapon switch rule this could work very well.

Im a loooong time MCH (from beta actually) and i have some pretty strong opinions about the state of my beloved profession. But to stay on topic ill just address the threads question...

I think the devs "intend" CH to be viable combat class in its own right, but anyone who is a dedicated CH can tell you that at the moment thats simply not how it is. We're gimped on pretty much every level. And thats not pesimism, thats being real.

Heres some reasons why CH's unfortunately are still a support combat prof instead of a strong viable combat prof on its own...

We can only store a very limited amount of our weapons (ie; creatures), while all other combat profs can store literally hundreds via crates, droids, etc.

Our weapons do considerably less damage then other combat profs and we have no damage types to choose from, its all kinetic. The other combat profs have a vast selection of damage types to choose from.

Our weapons (ie; creatures) are subject to running about, self storing, glitching on terrain, etc. The other combat profs weapons always work when equiped and they can be changed in battle, creatures cant be swapped during battle.

In PvP confrontations our creatures suffer a 75% reduction in damage they deal, while those attacking back at them do full damage. This one is so lame its beyond words how it was implemented.

When we get a new weapon from the wild or from a BE we have to wait a week till it grows up before we can use it at its most effective, the other combat profs merely buy a weapon and its ready to go.

And this is all just scratching the surface... =)

Just so we're clear, I desperately want to see the Ch returned back to its previous stature and be made into a legit non-support combat class again.