Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Hope may lie in reinvention... Consider this spin to save CH.
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QuantumArtist
Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:39 am
#1
Many of you that know me from... uh... other sites, may know that I've always been a fan of CH. I think I have a solution, for the developers and the CH players. This will be a fairly long post.
Preface
I feel I must mention that there is no mention of CH in the upcomming changes at all.There is no mentionregarding CHdeletion, or consolidation into one of the 9 mentioned classes. There is a big difference between them. Since CH has not been mentioned at all, I'd like to first say that far too many of us are overreacting on too little information.
Thats not to say that your assumptions may be wrong, butI urge all of you to take a step back, be adult and weed out the garbage and speculation from the actual facts.
No matter what happens, please, before you jump off the bridge, at least try to cross it first. Fact is, we have no idea how this will effect our game, and how it will effect CH.
ANYTHINGsaid other then thisis pure speculation.
The problem with CH in game balance
The devs have long voiced frustration over inherant balance issues regarding CH. At first they were too strong. The resulting and disaterous change led to a nerf of every creature in the game.
More recently, this overnerf was recallibrated thanks to patch 24. I happen to think the new post 24 CH is pretty on par with other professions... but there remains other concernes...
Inflexibility. You see, any change to CH means changing whole groups of creatures. Any imbalance (because players can quite often find "workarounds" to any system) will lead to a much more labor intensive correction then that required for any other profession. There are so many variables involved with CH that arent factors to other professions. Consider;
- One buff to a level 20 creature could mean that any CH pulling 3 of them will gain a significant multiplied benifit.
- BE, is a completely seperate profession which has labored for ages under a broken pet crafting system. Any adjustment to natural pets can trash this aspect of a BE business.
- Special attack spam. CHs with 3 pets can spam more specials on an enemy easily 3 times as fast as any other profession. This can easily imbalance CH in combat.
- Think about all the programming and server space required to run pets, that simply wouldnt be an issue with any other profession.
In short, CH is a whole lot of work to get right. I'm certain the devs have realized it will continue to be more work then its worth in its current incarnation.
This is the reason why they're changing it.
Also, CH is nowhere near as prevelantin the movies as other professions. This is why they've been focusing on professions based on specific heroes in the movies. They want SWG to be more Star Wars, and I have to agree with them that CH, although mildly represented in the movies, just dont stand out as a MUST have in the Star Wars universe.
How about a new direction?
I love CH. Theres just something about that play style that is very involving. While I understand the developers reasons to alter/remove CH, I dont completely agree with them. Like many of you, I presume my reasons have less to do with logic and more to do with the emotion of it... and thats the point isnt it?
In keeping with my philosophy to find a solution, I've been putting some thought into ways we might be able to enhance the "starwarsyness" of SWG and keep our playstyle in the game.
I think I have a solution... but it will take a bit of a twist and a few rules you guys may not feel comfortable with.
Keep in mind that nothing I have here is written in stone, its just a few immediate thoughts from a brain that never stops thinking... lol
Droid Commander- VS Creature handler
I know you may have heard talk about putting in a droid commander before. Long ago, I remember the devs seriously considering it. Well, I think our salvation may lie in resurecting this concept.
You see, Droids have always been significantly more prevelant in the SWG universe. Anakin didnt build a Bantha... he built C3P0. The gungans didnt fight rancors (though I would have LOVED to have seen THAT battle)... they fought the trade federation droid army. When people purchase drinks in the cantina... they buy them from... droids.
The biggest point here is that with droids being seen so much more often in the movies, it should be the same in game. This is a HUGE selling point in the light of the new direction of the game.
Think about it. Would it not be a whole lot more Star Wars like if you saw a person walking around with 5 combat droids behind them, instead of 3 rancors? Seriously! What city in their right mind would let someone walk around with a bantha the size of Theeds starport? Its therefore much more feasable in terms of realism and "starwarsyness" to consider trading out our pets for droids.
How to make Droid Commander work
OK, the idea here is not to take a CH and just give him droids instead of pets and call him a Droid Commander. Remember, we still have to fix the inherant combat balance issues of multiple pets. The developers need to know EXACTLY what to expect in terms of survivability, firepower and strategy from players, in order to keep the game balanced. In lew of this consideration, I've come up with the following rules...
- Every droid commander starts with all the combatdroids they can use.
- These combat droids cannot be made! They can be upgraded, but not replaced or deleted.
- 6standard battle droids (trade federation standard issue- you see them in the deathwatch bunker)
- 4Super Battle Droids (again, in the DWB)
- 2Droid dekka
- 5 slots for any utility droids they would like to have built by DEs.
- Every droid can be upgraded in ability as the droid commander levels up.
- Droids can recieve programs to enhance their accuracy, and defense
- Combat droids can recieve armor upgrades and enhanced weaponry
- Standard battle droids can use guns from weapon smiths!
- Battle droids can use guns from crafted by droid engineers and melee weapons from weaponsmiths.
- Droid dekka can only use guns crafted by droid engineers.
- Droids can only use specials which droids can perform.
- For example, a droid dekka comes automatically with that wheel mobility ability built in for speed, and a PSG built in.
- A droid can be "designated" a certain task in advance bythe droid commander. For example, medic, combat, or droid repair.
- Weapon powerups can be used on weaponsthat aremade by weaponsmiths.
- The level of the droid engineer will determine what kind of programs are available to his droids.
- The droid engineer can also pre design a combat que for his droid to use. This allows him to optimize his droids in advance of combat, to fulfill a certain role.
- Droid commanders can only pullone of these combat droid combos;
- 3 standard battle droids
- 2 super battle droids
- 1 droid dekka
- They can always pull out any of their support droids in addition to this.
- The droid engineer himself will have skills to mostly avoid direct combat and command his droids from a distance, though if he needs to, he can perform about as well as one of the standard combat droids in combat.
- Droids do not decay.
The perks in this concept
So thats my big idea. While yes, we will have to swap our pets for droids, there are perks for both the devs and players. Consider;
- No taming babies all over the place.
- You automatically have all the droids you need. You just need to upgrade them.
- The developers can anticipate your strengths and weaknesses very easily. This is HUGE. Its their number 1 problem with CH.
- Changes to creatures in game will in no way alter the balance of CH power. Again, this is huge.
- Adds much more to the "starwarsyness" of SWG.
I only have a few suggestions/options asside from this;
- REMOVE ATSTs, and give ussome real vehicles we can pilot and shoot from! Seriously, ATST in its current manifestation is just embarassing.
- It would be so much fun if this droid commander concept were allowed to create more droids while in combat... and just keep em flowing! Players could trash them over and over and whod care? The Droid commander doenst loose his droid, and can keep making more battle droids to send into the fray... it'd be fun for everyone to see lots of droids running all over getting smashed and blasting away at everything.
Hope yall like this idea. I'm mostly trying to get people to quit complaining and to start thinking of ways to help the devs make a better game, while allowing us to keep our playstyle. I've learned from experience with them that its much better to be constructive then it is to try and force them to do anything.
I hope you agree that thiswould be a ton of fun. If you have other ideas do post them. I really do think this is a better solution to the CH/dev problems.
Oh, and before I forget, if you want to fashion it after any type of character in the movies, you can try the trade federation viceroy, Count Duku, or General Greivous.
Message Edited by QuantumArtist on 11-03-2005 06:46 AM
Thor79
Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:48 am
#2
Droid commanders can only pullone of these combat droid combos;
- 3 standard battle droids
- 2 super battle droids
- 1 droid dekka
- They can always pull out any of their support droids in addition to this.
- The droid engineer himself will have skills to mostly avoid direct combat and command his droids from a distance, though if he needs to, he can perform about as well as one of the standard combat droids in combat.
- Droids do not decay.
Play City of Villains much?
Your idea is similar to the Robot Mastermind Villain Archtype...
but anyway...I like the idea and agree it would make it more Starwarsy...
but I'd rather see CH stay in game...
If I had a choice between the two I'd say CH...if it was Droid Commander or nothing...I'd say Droid Commander...
QuantumArtist
Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:56 am
#4
Atarki wrote:
Doesn't sound like much of a CH to me. . .
Well, the concept is only altered in that you're using droids instead of creatures for pets. The only other way it differes is that you arent racking up hoards of worthless pets. The perk is that the devs know exactly what to expect from you. It limits the variables, and therefore allows them to maintain balance much easier.
Other then that, it is CH. It will still play very similar to the way CH always has, with only these 2 major exceptions.
In the end its all dependant on your spin.
CritterControl
Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:08 am
#5
That is not CH. end of story. CH is not Driods. i dont give a crap what you say. that is not CH. and i will quit the game even if this thing is put in. It is NOT the same
Oceas Evenstar
Master Creature Handler
goatt_13
Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:11 am
#6
if they want to keep it twitchy, have us shift to the animal's perspective.
not to downplay your ideas - i may not agree with all of it, but the thoughts and writing are definitely interesting/appreciated.
not to downplay your ideas - i may not agree with all of it, but the thoughts and writing are definitely interesting/appreciated.
QuantumArtist
Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:15 am
#7
CritterControl wrote:
That is not CH. end of story. CH is not Driods. i dont give a crap what you say. that is not CH. and i will quit the game even if this thing is put in. It is NOT the same
Oceas Evenstar
Master Creature Handler
Dont let the door hit you on the way out!
I get really tired of the "I quit" arguement. I'm just a player. Theres no point in using it on me. Its not a valid arguement.
Now if you want to talk about possible solutions, then why dont you share? Otherwise go away already.
Whether you like it or not, CH is going away. I'm proposing reinvention. I'm making concessions to keep our playSTYLE. Now you can accept abolishment, or you can meet the devs half way somewhere... because obviously they're tired of trying to make it work your way.
Message Edited by QuantumArtist on 11-03-2005 07:18 AM
deDios88
Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:16 am
#8
Thanks for the kind words and the idea. That's all we have now and it's appreciated by me.
The reason you may get some less friendly responses from some of us ol' timers is that you are missing one CRITICAL element.
I used my critters in combat, but for me - it was the thrill of the hunt. Not just a see it, shoot it; but a rare find and all the work of taming it and picking a name for it, and lately taming it with a mix of specials.
Droids are droids. You buy them and junk them. Critters each have a story about where you first found them.
Keep workin' the spin. We'll need guys like you in this new game.
I'll play this new game, but Galaxies dies with my pets Diefenbaker, Bitz, Poofling, Uriah, and Apocalyte.
See you in the wilds,
Glacial deDios - Gorath
The reason you may get some less friendly responses from some of us ol' timers is that you are missing one CRITICAL element.
I used my critters in combat, but for me - it was the thrill of the hunt. Not just a see it, shoot it; but a rare find and all the work of taming it and picking a name for it, and lately taming it with a mix of specials.
Droids are droids. You buy them and junk them. Critters each have a story about where you first found them.
Keep workin' the spin. We'll need guys like you in this new game.
I'll play this new game, but Galaxies dies with my pets Diefenbaker, Bitz, Poofling, Uriah, and Apocalyte.
See you in the wilds,
Glacial deDios - Gorath
QuantumArtist
Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:21 am
#9
deDios88 wrote:
Thanks for the kind words and the idea. That's all we have now and it's appreciated by me.
The reason you may get some less friendly responses from some of us ol' timers is that you are missing one CRITICAL element.
I used my critters in combat, but for me - it was the thrill of the hunt. Not just a see it, shoot it; but a rare find and all the work of taming it and picking a name for it, and lately taming it with a mix of specials.
Droids are droids. You buy them and junk them. Critters each have a story about where you first found them.
Keep workin' the spin. We'll need guys like you in this new game.
I'll play this new game, but Galaxies dies with my pets Diefenbaker, Bitz, Poofling, Uriah, and Apocalyte.
See you in the wilds,
Glacial deDios - Gorath
Yes, sadly, this is the part my solution does miss. Fortunately, I've come up with all this as a solution rather quickly... give me a bit and I might find a cure for this as well...
Of course anyone else that can think of a solution for this with the droid commander concept, by all means toss it our way!
Greylady14
Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:24 am
#10
This is not Creature Handler, a Ch goes in to the wild and finds the pets he wants then tames them , sometimes being attacked by parents and others around the baby (more often than not. It is NOT going in to the store and buying a thing full of nuts and bolts and oil. The best part about CH is the fact that it is dangerous to go get the better pets, then haveing to train them. My pets all have beating hearts and sometimes disobey, such is life. and it was stated that the only pets to beable to be pulled were the lvl 10 pet. How many Master Ch has lvl10's in their pad? mine is full of 50's, 60's and 70 lvl pet. How am I going to feel pulling a lvl 10 out(mount no less) and seeing my GSP ive had since launch or the new lvl 65 lvl flea that I just tamed. What about the promise of lvl80 pets to tame?
My acct will not be cancled becasue I have station access and play eq2 and eg. but I very much doubt that I will play after the new changes, If i do it will be with a new char on a different server I WILL NOT RESPEC from MASTER CREATURE HANDLER no way, no how, no, no, no, was bad enough in the last respec I tried master doc/ master ch, had enough respec skills to go from master dancer/mCH to Master doc/Mch but not back to Master Dancer/MasterCH So I lost one of the professions that I had since Launch I will NOT lose another one. Ro'esq is not a commando, bounty hunter, officer , jedi(well almost but I wanted to earn it not respc to complet jedi). Or one of the other new Iconic professions nor will she ever be.
My acct will not be cancled becasue I have station access and play eq2 and eg. but I very much doubt that I will play after the new changes, If i do it will be with a new char on a different server I WILL NOT RESPEC from MASTER CREATURE HANDLER no way, no how, no, no, no, was bad enough in the last respec I tried master doc/ master ch, had enough respec skills to go from master dancer/mCH to Master doc/Mch but not back to Master Dancer/MasterCH So I lost one of the professions that I had since Launch I will NOT lose another one. Ro'esq is not a commando, bounty hunter, officer , jedi(well almost but I wanted to earn it not respc to complet jedi). Or one of the other new Iconic professions nor will she ever be.
jopenack
Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:27 am
#11
OMG
I can't begin to fathom threads like this. while your intentions are good ones you fail to see the real problem. It's not balance or a place in the universe it is this
A COMPANY THAT FLAT OUT LIES TO ALL OF US.
Would you even believe them if they said they weren't going to get rid of ch now. Please they are capapble of telling another lie to string you along for another month or two of payments.
They gave us new babies in an expansion and had us chasing a necklace while knowing full well they were getting rid of us.
and you want us to stay and work with these people, how gullable do you think we are. unless heads roll at this company and a new team comes in to run this place I am not going to remotely hope things will change nor do I want to play and soe game.
Forget it, they are liars and have goten my faith and hopes too many times it shall not happen again. They don't deserve it and the ch community doesn't deserve false hopes and continued lies from swg and soe.
Quamin
Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:31 am
#12
Unfortunatelythey have said that if you are a Creature Handler, your pets above lvl 10 will stay in your datapad but you can only call lvl 10 and under. BS SOE. BS! 
QuantumArtist
Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:31 am
#13
As I stated earlier, I am not addressing that issue. The intent of this thread is to open peoples eyes to the reality and make them see that they need to either rethink the profession in order to keep some aspect of it, or accept its abolishion.
I'm an not going to entertain rants of conspiracy.
Message Edited by QuantumArtist on 11-03-2005 07:34 AM
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