Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Corral Plan V.3
Tallika_RunswithKrayt
Thu Nov 04, 2004 6:10 pm
#105
I like that idea of a viable way to corner the milk market. but instead of letting others milk our domesticated animals the creatures are milked on a 12hr cycle and players can buy the milk from a terminal just like a single item dedicated vendor. That would give creature handlers a small bonus on harvesting resources since we can't really sell our creatures at all...
BraccusD
Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:03 am
#106
With the rangers against domestic meat (and only domestic meat would be produced). What if rangers got some kind of big bonuses for collecting in a ranch. Like up to double harvest (or maybe more)by the time they reach master perhaps? As for the market for milk and eggs and domestic meat...I'll havta go check my chef schematics again...perhaps this would provide a way to do something other than nutrient tissues. But schematics would really need to change to provide much of a market for milk and eggs. Right now I would only use that stuff in certain tailor tissues which goes with the whole clothing no decay issue which means I'm not gonna buy much of it.
I'd like to seeinput from someDEsabout some of the profession specific functions tho. BEs and DEs had a little clash in the market in the pastand what the devs did for DEs I think really helped differentiate them so that non-CH pets and droids serve seperate functions and thus makes DEs and BEs not havta compete too much. Currently it's the battle droid versus the 10k health 60kinetic non-CH pet, buta number ofBEs are againstmaking those and sticking with 4k range health guys.
One thing we've also been wanting as BEs is a fishery for fish and mollusk collection....but I doubt that's gonna happen. Been wondering when they'll give rangers nets to start gathering this stuff better. We have professions specific weapons...why not profession specific tools? Ah...but I'm getting off subject here.
As for crated samples of DNA...if they didn't provide BEs with some kind of storage device which we've asked for a number of times, a bunch of BEs would be goin crazy. However, crated samples would have an advantage of providing a way to do a factory run of pets. There's probably gonna be mixed feeling on that among BEs. And unless it's a BE getting these samples, I'm not sure how the quality is gonna be factored in. If anyone can gather DNA samples, then they should be low quality, which tends to not get used as master BEs usually use only high or very high quality DNA. BEs have a whole DNA sampling skill tree to get better at both sampling and the quality of the samples. If sampling is allowed it should really be only by BEs and have the quality and level restrictions that DNA sampling affords. The last thing we need is a bunch of non-master BEs getting whatever samples they want. Also, the DNA samples affect the amount of crafting xp. So I'm guessing this isn't a good idea or it would be a cheap way to grind BE in no time.
Message Edited by BraccusD on 11-05-2004 07:14 AM
Atchoc
Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:51 am
#107
I like the idea. Anything that will give a CH more income is good.
I've been a CH for a5 months now. My sister started playingthe game a month ago as a BE. She has madeover 700k in that month selling low lvl pets.
Thats well over2 times theamount that I have made in 5 months. There's just not a good income for CH's other than combat missions.
spreadsheet
Fri Nov 05, 2004 5:17 pm
#108
Thanks Pluto, thats kinda what I meant but didnt say..LOL. I am unaware of the prerequests for placingvenders and just winged it. Only the artisian skills required to place a vender in the first place. I dont really think we need to code all animals male/female to have milk and eggs. Less code change to just keep it as in the wild. The B/E dna sampling would of course require a B/E skilled in dna sampling. Not everyone could or should be able to sample. I do not think everyone should be able to place a ranch/corral. Database overload I would think, have this be at least novice c/h as was the original intention.
I personally like the breeding idea, however, I do not think it has to be part of the corral plan. If the ranch/corral idea could be put through without it, I would be all for it. A 4 tier storage idea, with possible milk/eggs, dna sampling, and vender selling would still be awesome.
-Elder Medic-
Pluto9Moon
Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:00 am
#109
Braccus, No flames here either. I being one of the vocal CH have taken this thread seriously and welcomed the constructive feedback. I realize some of these were replied to, but I have added my answers.
BraccusD wrote:
I'm a MBE on one server and CH on the other, and my opinion here is going to be slightly toward the BE side so please don't flame me, I'm just trying to give another perspective. The ranch does seem likea cool idea, I'd like to have more pets too. The milk and eggs is also cool. Here's a few ideas and limitations I'd have tho:
1) To gathermilk you need female version pets in the ranch just like you need in the wild. I would also think this true for eggs, but perhaps it could be requiring both a male and female in there for it. This type of market could be very useful and sellable for CHs depending on how the devs might want to then increase the eggs and milk usage in chef schematics. I'd concur with rangers as being against meat; although domestic meat is somewhat of a pain too...
Right now, as we have seen with breeding discussions, not all species have male or female prototypes. If it can be implemented easily I would agree that females be necessary for milk and eggs. Domestic meat is an option that CH in this format would be more readily supply.
2) Allowing a BE to sample seems to have negligable value.Some of themajor pets I'd want to sample (merek harvester and young makloc plainswalkerfor one and two) are the ones that can't be tamed...reason probably being to allow resists and such that you simply can't obtain through wild taming. Not like there's all that many pet requests anyway...so the current system seems to be working in making the pet process be as lengthy as it is. There's also probably a good reason for making certain aggro creatures more difficult to get samples from. Creatures that DB should not beallowed to be sampled in a ranch....makes it just too easy and risk freefor a BE to get those samples....gets right around the need for mask scent, or warning shot, or feign death, or TKM, or any number of templates BEs have set up for handling that in the wild.
The idea of BE samples being risk free is a stuck point of sorts. I am not sure that being TKM should have to be a prerequisite for being BE. When I think of Bio-Engineer, I think laboratory. That makes me think sedated animals and a virtually risk free environment. That being said I know many BE have stated that sampling is the fun and rewarding part, the thrill of the hunt. Another thing we had discussed before was a box trap idea for adult tames. Even now I still kick around that box trap in hopes that we could find a way to make it work. My latest idea would be: A trap that catches adult varieties of creatures usuable by CH. This box would contain the adult creature for relatively risk free sampling by the BE. This option would be something I forego in the Corral Thread. But we hunt the creatures and take the risk in the wild for those BE who do not want to. The BE then takes the beast back to their lab to DNA sequence and splice. Or what ever hocus pocus voodoo stuff you do.
3) This should not provide any type of vendor usage without someone having artisan and business 3... All us crafters felt it, and maybe BEs most of all, when they changed the vendor situation. There's a reason why there just ain't many BE vendors around. Also, you require transfer to trade pets...this should not in any way get aroundrequiring transfer to trade pets. Basically if deeding is an option for putting pets in the ranch, theyshould be untradeable items like the crystal you get for force sensitive quests. It would require you to exchange stuff in your datapad to be able to sell.
If I did not mention Business Skills as of this Version I will go back and clarify it at some point. We would like a version of a vendor that does require the proper artisan skills in order to function. Although the farm itself could function without a vendor. In a non-commercial state the Corral would simply store pets, so no vendor necessary.
4) Kinda against the whole breeding. As mentioned, difficult to find babies should remain difficult to find. Getting babies should take time....but don't see the harm of using a ranch to grow them faster. If I were a DE I'd probably be upset with the modification to a pet to make it have functions close to what droids offer.
Breeding was a stuck point. BE make pets, we tame pets, so why add a 3rd form of pets that would really be Farmer type CH competing against Tamer type CH, not forgetting that we would also be competing against BE. Profession Specific Pets were the one thing I see that these domesticated animals could be. That is to say if it is tagged CH-Bred then it can only be used for decoration or as a PSP.
So yeah, I think you guys having more storage ain't all that bad of an idea. And a simple farm would be a nice way to supplement your income too. Of course that leads one to ask if just anyone can have a farm, just need a CH to place the pets in the farm for them... This would lead me to ask that the pets age and die out after a while in the ranch and causes them to get a CH to put new ones back in.
Any feedback I have had from a Red NAME has also remarked "Database issues". I am really skeptical that everyone having a farm is a good thing. Simply because it would require 30+ times more DB space than it would for just one profession. If everyone has it then I agree that there must be vitality loss.
Actually I just had an idea...maybe vitality loss occurs over time if you are farming the animals for milk and eggs and domestic meat. That way you can have storage if you don't want to farm them, or have it as a business that can be used by chefs or anyone to create milk and eggs for their products and cause CHs to have a pet market outside CH.
In the non-commercial version nothing at all would happen except maintenance of a monetary nature.
Respectfully,
Message Edited by BraccusD on 11-04-2004 01:46 PM
Thanks for the feedback
P9M
Pluto9Moon
Sat Nov 06, 2004 9:19 am
#110
Yeah the breeding in itself is cool. As I have said before, I am an amateur herpteculturist. Since selective breeding seems to be what makes BE special, the only way no to infringe is that CH Breeding should not create better attack pets but better domesticated animals. This crops up as PSP's.
Now the problem with breeding as such (as I see it spread) would be how do you tag whats breeding if it is not contained seperately. This almost requires a corral or other such containment area. But I would seriously like to hear an alternative plan.
Now the problem with breeding as such (as I see it spread) would be how do you tag whats breeding if it is not contained seperately. This almost requires a corral or other such containment area. But I would seriously like to hear an alternative plan.
spreadsheet
Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:51 pm
#111
Your right, the only way I see it is have breed pets be PSP's. It would be far easier to tag these.
spreadsheet
Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:34 pm
#112
Idea: what if the Ranch was the first storage structure and you added modules to add storage thus going to the next level. The concept art would remain the same. It would go along the lines of space ships. Main structure would be simple, add on as you obtain the skills to do so. Like the lvl of weapons and such to ships. Lvl 1 corral, Lvl 2 corral and so on. I think this would simplyfy the coding and art. I still like the idea of making stage 3 and 4 more like the Warren concept. But would still be an add on to the Lvl 2 corral, just underground. What do you guys think? I wish this thread had remained on the top. I know it is sticked, but havn'tseen anything new in a long while.
Pluto9Moon
Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:50 pm
#113
spread,
I want to answer this as one of my last official acts for a while. In the Hero badge Quest there is one instance of where a bomb must be placed in a crack in the wall. You open the crack then drag and drop teh bomb from inventory.
Using that as a starting point might allow structures to gain the flags needed to upgrade.
What I mean is let's say the Arch needs minimal materials to make a Corral. 10K trees or something to make the basic Storage Version of the Corral. CH John Q Public wishes to go into breeding so he needs to add a droid module to upgrade. He goes to the terminal on the wall and opens it through the radial menu and now throughs in the Milk Maid Droid module. This flags the structure as Class 2.
Another point to this is the way ships can be up or downgraded. So these modules could be what makes this work for everyone. The coding is the same as the ships.
I want to answer this as one of my last official acts for a while. In the Hero badge Quest there is one instance of where a bomb must be placed in a crack in the wall. You open the crack then drag and drop teh bomb from inventory.
Using that as a starting point might allow structures to gain the flags needed to upgrade.
What I mean is let's say the Arch needs minimal materials to make a Corral. 10K trees or something to make the basic Storage Version of the Corral. CH John Q Public wishes to go into breeding so he needs to add a droid module to upgrade. He goes to the terminal on the wall and opens it through the radial menu and now throughs in the Milk Maid Droid module. This flags the structure as Class 2.
Another point to this is the way ships can be up or downgraded. So these modules could be what makes this work for everyone. The coding is the same as the ships.
spreadsheet
Fri Nov 26, 2004 2:15 pm
#114
Thanks Pluto, that is exactly what I had in mind. It appears that a system already exists that could be modified for use in the corral concept. I think this would greatly simplify the upgrade of a corral. Hope you come back soon Pluto, love your ideas and you seem to GET my ideas even if I dont explain them as well. We still have a long wait for anything like this but I hate to see no posts for long periods of time.
Also Lucha, this thread was not started as a way to redeed pets. It was started asa storage concept and grew from there. We would love to be able to store or retire pets that we do not use as often but would hate to destroy. We have spoken about ways to sell pets on some type of vender which may include redeeding but have not gone to far into anything like that.
Message Edited by spreadsheet on 11-26-2004 01:15 PM
spreadsheet
Fri Nov 26, 2004 2:25 pm
#115
Vert, I know you check out this thread. We have some new ideas, what do you think? Can you slide an update to a dev on the sly....LOL. Just havent seen you post in here for awhile.
Message Edited by spreadsheet on 11-26-2004 01:25 PM
LuCha
Sat Nov 27, 2004 6:31 am
#116
I, being a chef, have been thinking about a way to use some type of player made something to be able to get milk & eggs in more realistic amounts. I had been thinking (before I found this whole thread) of how to do it. I think this corral idea is a great one! A structure where creatures could be managed and farmed. We have automated harvesters for everything else, why not these resources. Even meat, hide and bone should be able to be farmed! Why not? Because people can harvest it? Well guess what, you can harvest ore by yourself too. 
I was a CHover a year ago, but I didn't master it. It was just something fun I wanted to do. Skill points got in the way of fun, and I had to drop it. Now I have 2 toons and have decided to have fun in this game again. Yes, my main toon (Erus) runs a very active chef & tailor & resource & loot &.... business. And that has becomretoo much like work. So I picked up CH again (at this writing i'm almost master) with my alt (Erusia) and tracking in ranger. That along with master rifle is a great combo. I really don't even need to get buffed. I just wander around with my pets having a blast 
This recent revival of CH for me has brought back a lot of fun to the game. And seeing this thread in the forums has given me another reason to be creative and have fun with this game.
This recent revival of CH for me has brought back a lot of fun to the game. And seeing this thread in the forums has given me another reason to be creative and have fun with this game. For the corral I have a few things that need thinking about: /areagetnotebook1
1) If the main focus of the corral was storage, why not just make something available in the game that can store pet data? Droids used to be able to do it right? So... why not just do that? I'm not really sure why the number of pets is limited anyway. Doesn't the data pad have a realistic limit anyway with the number of items that you can store in it totally?
2) The additional focus of letting other people see the pets while they are stored is another great idea! This gives you options that add to the fun value of the game, like decorations, zoos, or even possible avenues for selling pets. But, how is another player going to see the pet? Will the pet be standing in the corral area for everyone to see? Or are they going to be stored inside some kind of pen or a box or whatever inside a building? I personally would rather see the pets out where everyone can see them, but I'm not sure if that's what this post is trying to say. But if you can see the pets, how do you limit the pets inside the corral? 3 pucs <> 1 kimo
3) No matter what the corral is, be it a storage device or an open pen outside, pets need to be put into it. How do you get the pets into the corral? Some kind of vendor like interface? Use the /transferpet command to transfer it to the corral? Open some kind of trade window? Go into the corral and just drop the pet like any other item? Call the pet from inside the corral and tell it to /stay? Use a terminal radial dial on the corral that is just like a data pad?
4) I know the idea of selling pets sounds great, but this skill belongs firmly in the hands of Merchants. I wouldn't include this idea in the corral plan, unless you were thinking that a merchant would be able to add a vendor to the corral in some way.
5) I really like the idea of the corral being a type of harvester. Being able to basically farm some amount of eggs, milk, hide, meat, bone or horn (yes, horn!) would be nice. But this brings up a lot of questions. If my corral is on Naboo, can I have creatures from another planet in the corral? I'd think you could, but I'm not sure about this.And if my Naboo corral does have a Lokian critter in it, what kind of milk will it give? Naboo or Lok? And what type of milk? Domestic? Even if originally the critter gave wild milk? And what spawn would it give you? The eggs from when you picked up the creature (pre nerf eggs lol) or whatever the current spawn is?
6) I know that many different ideas are being considered for what the corral looks like, but there are standards for each planet for what kind of buildings can be placed there. So is the corral going to be a generic building, or will there have to be different types of corrals? The ranch that Pluto put pics up for looks great for a Tatooine coral, but what will they look like on other planets?
7) The player buildings in the game provide an interesting storage question. I can have 10 lots filled with factories where I can put 100 items into each one for a total of 1000 items in storage (plus whatever they make). I can also have 10 lots filled with harvesters that basically can't hold anything they don't harvest. Where does the corral fit into the equation? Currently with player buildings you get storage for 75 items per lot the building takes up with a cap at 250 items in a single building. So that large house i have (6 lots) is kind ofa waste. I can only hold 250 items. Would the corral also be able to hold 250 items? (4 lots x 75 items > 250, so = the max of 250)
OK, that's enough outa me for now. Just some questions I had before I started shooting my mouth off 
Erus
Master Chef/Master Tailor/Master Merchant
Erusia
Novice CH/Novice Ranger/Master Riflewoman
Merdigan
Sun Nov 28, 2004 3:15 pm
#117
I have only read the first 2 pages of this thread. It may have been said but a though came to me. Why not think about being able to use BE implants orinjectionson babies to enhance them. A shot to increase energy resistance. Or to hardden the skin and add a bit of kinetic res. The increases would have to be small say a % increase of what the res is. 10% maybe? Use bots perhaps to train a new special attack with a baby. Poison attacks would be out of the question unless the creature had a poison attack. Upgrade from weak to medium poison strike as an example. Any thoughts?