Creature Handler Archive

Very nice Baccadinio. I like the idea of us being able "over time" of breeding superior or "closer to perfect standard" creatures. The main reason I was tying the B/E with a "breeding tool" was not to get to close to their enigeneering of better beasts. But you bring up a good point they use dna from many diff beasts and they could still sample from our better stock. Ours would keep the same traits of their parent but be better, faster, or stronger? Hmmm. About the better harvest, how about a Ranger being able to come in and "harvest" out older creatures. I thought we could always release them back into the wild as we do now...sorta. But if we had older creatures we needed to let go we could allow a ranger to come in and harvest the better quality hide, meat, bone. They would be the only able to do this. What do you guys think? Of course we do not need to harvest anything....would be simplier just an idea to get our Ranger friends more involved again. Oh yea, from an earlier post. If caught in the wild, there would have to be a limit as to how many were allowed in the datapad. I say no more than 4 at a very high ranger, B/E, or C/H level. Which ever Prof is allowed to catch adults. And as I brought out before there would be a time limit. You can only keep a creature in a cage for so long. 1-2 days and it escapes or simply dies.

Excellent

Baccadinio excellent I really think this is a good idea as well.

I posted this in my own thread, but my ideas are along the lines of breeding. It was suggested that I post it here, so I hope you take the time to read.....

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=creature_handler&message.id=173396#M173396

Breeding would be a nice function for CHs, and I'll tell you why I think so. The BEs get to produce Frankenstein-eqsue pets, but what about CH's getting male and female babies, raising them, feeding them the right stock andbreeding them to produce a pet that is much more powerful than its parents? The concept would work loosely on how weaponsmiths get max damage and reliability out of weapon experimentation, but on a much different system. To balance this out with the BEs, you would be limited to the same general species (skins) to breed, and not able to breed an Arachne with a Tusk Cat.

I like the speed idea. If everything has a base speed figure (and I am certain it does). Then this would be a statistic we could play with and not really trample the toes of the BE.

I would like more input or summations of ideas that people like. When I glue more of this together I will likely read and just count peoples reactions to different posts as psuedo-votes. Obviously CH-harvesting is voted out. Ranger harvesting has the original posters vote for example.

Tengue and fantoq, we have asked for just plain stables in the past. I would like those too. Dreaming while we ask does not hurt either. Why shouldn't we have some functions for them. At this point I am willing to ask for the sky and settle for a teaspoon of dirt. The point is showing that in order to get certain things we have to work others into the picture. We are often accused of not seeing the big picture. For instance, we asked the Rangers. We did not see the big picture then. We do now. We backed off. But we are also trying to put people into the big picture.

Such as, almost EVERY CH believes that 70 and below should be tameable. So instead of us, being able to tame them let us put the Rangers back into the scheme. Horned voritors captured in a box by a Ranger. Coded some way for it to be in suspended animation. Ranger takes it out of the hopper and sells it to a CH who can then Tame it. This may not seem to every CH as the way to do it. But it would give the availibility of the non-tameables to CH. I am willing to make that sacrifice to have more creatures.

The breeding modules are a possible sore point. I am not sure as suggested any certain module makes it easier to breed. Unless one actually wrote code for ovulation and the Breeder Bot took temperatures to see when a female was most receptive. For the hands on breeder you throw two things together they either do or the don't. You then seperate them and try again later. We really need Non-CH BE's to post here about DNA sampling from a corral. For every postI have seen that it should be no different, I have seen another saying it should be better because the diet will be better. Do we let the BE in to sample or is that automated?

Anyway, I will glue what I can together tomorrow. Likely it will go into this post rather than start another and lose the history of it all.

Scout,

In case you have not heard the combat rebalance is shelved. That means that there is nothing coming for CH for 6 months. Forgive the few of us that do not find doing missions X hours a day and have some imagination of our own for dreaming for a second or two. I came into this realizing it may not fly. 95% sure that all parts of it would not.

100% sure that I do not want to breed pets as strong as BE. There is a midline point between the max possible for BE and Wild Type pets. If we could get there ourselves without adding specials or so it would bare minimum give us the same bragging rights we supposed we should have had for taming some rares. I have a thune grassland guardian. I live on Dant killed on before I tamed the second. I never insure and I do not like dying (pride can be evil). I have never seen a frenzied baby and I have killed many many frnzied. I await the glorious day An Enranged Defender (baby) pops up as a mob boss from a piket lair. Yeah, if you do not kill your piket lair before I see it, sorry about your luck. SOE's policy coming into this game was there would be little need for camping. Well guess what, we have to camp rares. If the Mob boss spawns even1:10 of the time and a baby 1:1000 thats some pretty high odds that I will even be in the right place at the right time.

Scout,

CH has no mission currently. Unless it is to get Pistoleer, TKA, or Rifleman just to do PvE missions. Defense Stats still stack to high for PvP and the CH to be competitive. CH's are merely trying in this thread to realize that there can be some fun in imagining the potential for our class. If some of the anti-CH people and truthfully some CH's are correct and we are merely group support. I would rather be a farmer looking for an ultra rare set of heterozygous albino genes in the wild. aa or Aa would work. Mating and breeding everything I can collect back against each other. If all I am reduced to in the end is a guy with meaningless pets then I will tell the Devs what meaning they could have. I have 14 million credits to my name that someone left me before they left the game. PvE missions for the sake of doing them? I am rich now, LOL. New content? Well even now I still would prefer the autostore bug be fixed before this proposal. None of us have seen anything back on Know your Role. Fewer still have seen bugs fixed. If it is a pipe dream. So be it. Most of us had fun doing it.

Now if it ALL steps on your toes tell me how. And tell me how to fix it.IF you can indeed make them faster, and by faster when I say it I speak of base movement rate. You make me a graul that keeps up with a cat and I will make you a rich man. Now I make me a graul through some selective breeding project and get a method to allow you to sample that DNA and you make me a Faster graul with specials we make each other rich men.

LOL Pluto, Ok no aprons. But you know what i meant, chaps would be cool. I really like this 2nd draft. Some thoughts, If we had these milking and/or vet modules they could be inserted into any existing droid chasis. The D/E would only have to make this on an order basis. I still like the ability of a ranger being able to harvest out an older heard to make room for new creatures, not a must and only if the C/H really needed the room. But way better stats for the ranger. I personally think the B/E should do the sampling himself. How about 1 sample an hour per creature? No perma death? Have a max sample per creature maybe, and if exceeded then death would result....how about vitality loss after sampling? We would need to keep them healthy or they would reach a lvl that they would no longer be able to function? How about color being a random draw, any color in the wild could be passed along. Better chance to pass red from red parents for example. I also like the " chance of breeding" it may not work every time. It doesnt always in the real world. But we should have less failures at higher levels. If we have to throw out the better stats by selective breeding lets do it. I want to keep the B/E in on this. After all I just want to breed my rares.....LOL Baby Grassland Thune Guardians. ( Im still looking for mine by the way) Any way thats it......except for the Chaps .....LOL

---

Pluto9Moon wrote:

The following is the somewhat polished version of the original rough draft. In version 2 some changes have been made so please reread in its entirety. One drastic change is the removal of harvesting as a component of any structure for CH’s.Good Idea removing that lets never bring it up again.Breeding has been discussed. We have yet to get any real feedback on DNA sampling. DNA sampling if it were to take place needs to be discussed in better detail. Architects in the similar post in their forum seemed for getting new structures to build and having a new market. While DE seem opposed to building a plain and simple module with little or no value and will never really deteriorate over time. This forum suggests the role-play aspects of milk maid bots. This is something that seems doable but at the same time we have to be aware of the scout market for milk. I am a Scout and there is no real market for milk anymore, it is just to easy to get. (I am proposing a compromise how about we are able to get better stats on the milk, but you can only milk each animal once per day and you only get 1/4 of the milk that a Master Scout would get, that way you offset the better qaulity by a lesserquanity)I will try to get more feedback from scouts.

Manger

Gained in Creature Taming I: Basic Domestication

Monetary Maintenance: 30cr/hour (720cr/day)

Food Required: 1/pet/hour

Animals Held: 4 adults (2 babies)

Lots Required: 1

DNA Sampling: No

Stable

Gained in Creature Management II: Advanced Organization

Monetary Maintenance: 60cr/hour (1440cr/day)

Food Required: 1/pet/hour

Animals Held: 8 adults (4 babies)

Lots Required: 2

DNA Sampling: No

I suggest that breeding only be allowed in Barn and Up

Barn

Gained in Creature Training III: Martial Obedience EducationChange to Emp 4 since that is usually the last skill gotten.

Monetary Maintenance: 90cr/hour (2880cr/day)90*24=2160cr/day

Food Required: 1/pet/hour

Animals Held: 12 adults (6 babies)

Lots Required: 3

Shearing Rate: 100% of Animal Base Harvest Rate. Lets leave hides to Rangers Nix this

DNA Sampling: NoChange to Yes

Corral

Gained in Creature Empathy IV: Consonance of WillChange this to Master since a MAster could get a Big Bonus, and is most likely to have the fullest data pad.

Monetary Maintenance: 120cr/hour (5760cr/day)120*24=2880cr/day

Food Required: 1/pet/hour

Animals Held: 16 adults (8 babies)I suggest 3:1 ratio 24 adults 8 babies considering the cost and lot size

Lots Required: 4

DNA Sampling: YES

Monetary Maintenance is self explanatory. I have not altered it up or down as of yet. Any monetary payout should expect some decent payback. If this idea simply gets reduced to you can have stables that display pets without any real function I would ask that they be reduced.

The power requirement is removed as of this version. Future power requirements would be battery based on Milk Maid droid modules (TBD).Now above you mention that DE were opposed because these would be 1 buying use, well I have an Idea. First there could be 2 droids a Milk droid and a Birthing Droids. Both would need Batteris that is were Artisan would come in. Now back to the renewable Droid Engineer part. From the droid Engineers we would need to buy Milk Extraction devices of some sort, each one is one use per animal, meaning that we would need alot of them for the milking proccess, so there is the repeat buisness. Now for birthing maybe we could invent something or since we will need to buy a ton of the milk extractors I think that it should be a special bot with a special chip for the milking.

Food is necessary to keep any animal healthy. It is required to keep animals. If the food is not available, animals will have a base 5% cumulative chance per hour of catching a disease. This disease is only curable by a doctor. Any disease animal increases the chance of any other animal’s disease check by 10%. For example you have 4 food items left in a Manger that holds 5 animals. The fifth one dramatically fails its check of 5%. The next hour each of the 4 animals that will be missing food would have a normal base 5% plus an additional 10% because disease already exists in the Manger. This brings the check up to 15%.

For food I recomend that this be any food, or Pet Food that can be created at Domestic Arts 4, makig the food a chef lvl would be advisable becase first chefs are hard to find and second since pet food wont be that desirable it will be extreme difficult to find some in large qautities.

Animals Held was reduced as some stated 40 was too many even at the higher end to 16 adults.

Lots Required is self explanatory but let us append this to read that only one such holding structure can be placed at any given time per CH. If you have a Manger you cannot have any of the other 3 structures.

DNA Sampling. See Interdependencies-Bio Engineer.

Interdependencies

Architect: The structures have to be made. These could be made with the same template for resources as harvesters. I suggest that barn and corral be atleast ascomplicated to build as a Large house, for the Corral it should be as complicated as a Guild Hall. That way there will be less of them since there cost would be around 500k each.

Droid Engineer: Possibly for the Milk Maid Droid and we have dropped the idea of DE making any component require for the structure itself. Vet bot was also offered. Good idea some ideas above.

Ranger: Instead of a Tranquilizer Dart (this is exploitable imho) the Rangers could have a Box Trap. The Box Trap could be some simple 1 time use structure or a more permanent structure like a harvester. Simple structures could capture 1 creature at a time and be place in Inventory much like a BE pet deed. What would be greatest about this idea is if Rangers can capture those pets not allowed to be tamed by CH currently. These mobs after captured by the Ranger would then have a TAME tab. Making those CL70 and below mobs that all CH want to be able to tame, tamable (wow thank god for spell check I have been spelling it tameable). This is a major compromise in which CH gets nothing back from the Rangers at all except the chance at more content through economy. I think that the pets that the Rangers catch souldn't be tameable, since the F1 generation is never demosticated. But of course we will by the Rangers Adult pets if breeding is implemted, they capture 2 we pay that large premium then we breed them and get a Tamable F2 generation to sell.

Doctor: These will be needed to heal diseased animals. It is my preference that we form some automated email system to allow us to know if an animal becomes diseased. It would be further beneficial if we have a Doctors List. This would allow us to place a Doctors name on the list to be emailed. Of course, it behooves the CH to get permissions from the Doctor first, so they do not receive unwanted email spam. Good idea i would drop the e-mail a doctor that would be 2 complicated but the e-mail person is already implemented because if a structe drops to a certain lvl all admins get mailed. that might be a way to tell a doctor you would need to truste them to but them on the admin list.

Bio Engineer: This to me seems the trickiest of all to implement. I have placed DNA Sampling in the Corral only. It seems that if everyone could do it there is less motivation to get nearer Master CH. What we need here is feedback. If it is automated then is 1 sample per hour enough with 16 creatures in a Corral? That is some 384 attempts per day. What success/failure rate is applied? Do we place an insta-death stipulation such as BE have already? If it is automated then where do we get the DNA sampling Droid? THIS REALLY NEEDS FEEDBACK. It lacks any real focus. Some BE do not want it, some think it’s great. (note: numbers reduced)Okay here is my idea on this the Sampleing would need to be manually done. Sampling for this would be given at MAster Bio-Engineer. Instead of an animal dying if there is a failure, how about each animal only get 5 samples to it, then it becomes genetically unviable. That prevents one person from having 1 animal, and constantls sampling it.

CH’s want this to be a visual structure. Something where things can be displayed and no some extension of a data pad. It is my understanding, we also want a way to make an access fee (in playing devil’s advocate I am almost certain this will require the Artisan Business I Skill). Okay I would be happy with the data pad but in the spirit of aiming high Making the animals viewable would be great. Now we have the problem with size, but how about underground, I thought of this because of the caged animals underground in the warren. I would prefer abovegroud but the size might be a problem. Yes buiness I in Artisan should be a must for an access fee.

Focused Future Discussions:

Breeding:

If we breed there could be a midwife bot. Mortality of any creature fits into Darwinism. But through modern technology many survive people survive in technologically advanced countries that may not have a chance in underdeveloped nations. Assigning a base mortality rate for new births and or stillborns could be worked out.

What statistics could really be affected: Damage as some representation of breeding stronger and stronger animals with each other? This would allow only and F1 and/or F2 generations. Speed: an increase in normal Base Movement Rates?

In asking for breeding, we CH must stay conscious of the fact this comes dangerously close to the BE territories. Keep in mind no one wants to breed mutants. Sub-species interbreeding would be ok. Voritors with Voritors. Rancors with Rancors. Graul with Graul. There is a different though Be get to choose what they want this would be mostly random. And Maybe like you said no Razorcats and Gurrecks, but Graul Maulers and Frenzied Grauls Would be okay.

Robo outlined a nice simple little Selective breeding process for color(Thanks for the mention but it wasn't just for color and the only way for the CH to know the color makeup would be to have a BE sample the creature to find out a genetic makeup). Although in my opinion this should not be known to the CH. Any animal that looks normal in color could be homozygous for normal, but might be heterozygous for recessive. Then of course there is more of a gene blending thing where something that may have a green color if it were GG is bred with a rr and has a brown color because it is Gr. Then of course there are the sex determining chromosomes X and Y. Again this short version is not the high amount of colors used by BE and therefore just some simple selective breeding fun in the stable. Yes colors should only be like 3 or 4, and more and the Combinations would be so complex that it would be come extrememly difficult to code.

Cross-breeding

Would it be something to breed a wild typeX with a BE skin mutant typeX and get half the difference in the F1X generation?

DNA Sampling.

This is something that seems harder to implement. Again does the BE get granted Admin and goes into the corral to sample? Or do we simply rely on druids with a needle? Let BE do a manual sample give them sampling rights.

Vitality Loss

I think this is doable, to a certain degree.

First, I think it should be implemented if the structures have commercial value. Let me explain. I want to breed and I throw X pets loose. I should not have the same stock forever without loose. Rotation of new blood into any gene pool is almost always needed. Without some random X factor like inbreeding this may not seem necessary. But in the long run it will simulate the breeder’s real world aspirations to keep the gene pool from stagnating. Vitality will help simulate this.

Second, if someone were to want a museum type storage structure then there must be a non commercial stable. No droids could be added and no birthing could take place. In this type structure vitality would not be lost. Keeping this irreplaceable rares pristine would be quite feasible. Great idea, I would also like a simplistic type of storage were we could ust hold our Prestine pets indefinatly with nothing done to them.

Lastly, the best case scenario is one in which placing the structure gives you the option to pick commercial or non-commercial prior to adding any pet. Re-deeding

could reset this switch (possibly?).

Connected Vitality Harvesting or simply Cullening the Herd.

An aspect not discussed in great detail is allowing Rangers to harvest the herd. This may be traumatic for the weak at heart but it could be feasible to allow Rangers to Harvest from the animals contained. This would be a feat with finality. Once every so often your friendly local ranger could stop by and harvest for 2 times the normal harvest rate because you have taken better care of the creature than it would have gotten on its own in the wild. Well instead of just pulling and olde yeller with a member of the herd I quess we could throw rangers a bone. And let them thin the heard out.

Kennel Facility

LOL. I threw this out earlier now I am fishing for some feedback. Would anyone be interested in a facility were people could drop off pets for automated training based on the CH skills you currently have, automated CH taming/training so to speak. For example, Joe Newb buys a CL10 bantha for a mount. He wants it trained. He has not cracked the deed yet. He comes to the Corral places it in an empty stall hopper. He types in all the commands in wants via some radial menu/dialogue box. He types the name. He comes back 4 days later to a fully grown and trained mount. CH’s set their own price for stall fees and never have to get bothered waiting for shuttles again. I dont like this idea completly, but here is what I am thinking people who hav epets in there data pad maybe a non-ch of something or a low lvl ch wants some more room. So you have a terminal in you kennel where the pet will be stored for x amount of time and for x cr/hour. No training will be done but the pet could grow. While stored.

New Tailor clothes

spreadsheet how about some chaps, lol. Real ranchers do not wear aprons.Unless its time to eat the herd.

Skill tree placement of structures.

I originally placed this in some random order with domestication being the first one required for a purpose. These are totally random and not something even I see as final.

Ok there it is. Again, I really do not mind yay and nay, but for clarity sake if you disagree tell us/me why and offer an alternative if you have one.

---

Message Edited by Pluto9Moon on 04-12-2004 09:49 PM