Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Truce
Tstorm wrote:
Aakhperkare wrote:
No, it doesn't matter. If I get banned, I get banned. I could really care less.
Interesting attitude and one I don't think I will never understand. Personally, if I was so disgusted with things that I needed to do things to get banned in an effort to get attention, I would hang up my backpack and find a better way to relax after a hard day at work.
Why are you thinking we want to get banned for attention. I am just speaking my mind.
Aakhperkare wrote:
These developers don't deserve people being nice to them. By suggesting everyone just forget the past you are being un-constructive yourself, because the past will just continue to repeat itself if everyone just forgets these developer's past transgressions.
I'm curious what you would like to see then. Everyone chanting "Down with the Devs!"?
I'd like to see the devs held accountable for their actions.
I'm not saying you don't have cause to be frustrated, but you could find a more productive way then declaring "war" on the Devs as has been suggested in other messages in this thread.
A more productive way. Spoken like a true dev. Sorry, but that's exactly how you sound. When the devs start putting forth some effort, I will start being more productive. The fact that I pay for this game means I am doing my part.
Aakhperkare wrote:
Besides, since when were you the unofficial board admin? Don't worry about how we conduct ourselves, just worry about yourself...
I won't respond directly to personal attacks, sorry. Feel free to click on the "Report Abuse to a Moderator" link though if you feel my posts are out of line with the Forum Policies.
Please consider though that just because I don't agree with someone's opinion doesn't mean I am an "unofficial board admin" though!
Oh puh-lease. You do realise by saying you won't respond to what yo concieve as a personal attack...you just responded to it. It wasn't a personal attack, it was a, if you don't like it don't read it attack. It's up to you.
Ranting and other misbehaving only appears to have a positive effect on getting the Devs to react because of another problem -- lack of Dev communication.
Uproar or coddling are the only things these developers respond to anymore.
With the recent Merchant changes, I saw a change that got put on Test Center weeks prior to the go live date. Players *assumed* it was written in stone and proceeded to launch a holy war about how the change would destroy their business. The Merchant community worked together to come up with alternate proposals based on the problems the Devs were trying to solve with the change and several of the ideas were implemented. I don't see the success as something the people ranting did -- it was something the Merchant community did while the change was still on Test Center and fluid.
There is a huge difference between the Merchant nerf and the CH nerf. CH's were nerfed merely because people got us nerfed, not because of a combat revamp or some other form of balance (except the skills spread over the skill tree, that's the only one that made sense). CH's had to deal with the massive hate of the players and we got nerfed. It got downright ugly at times back then.
The developers are to blame for this mess and every other mess in this game. They are the ones that have ultimate control. As someone said, the ball is in their court. They aren't doing anything with it. And until things get better, the only support for the devs I will offer is my monthly payment. And if JTL gets screwed up by these same incompetent people, I will then stop paying. Will it be my fault for not continuing placating the devs? Or will it be the devs fault for making incredibly stupid decissions and implimenting sloppy coding?
By the way. I like the chant, "Get new devs!" better...
Vertexon wrote:
It's easy to think up ideas, comments, and criticisms. Much harderand more time-consuming to actually implement them (far more so than most people think). I guess TH could make a billion posts saying "We'd love to do that, but we just don't have the resources right now." Would that really be an effective use of his time? People hated hearing "Wait for the Combat Revamp"... but that's exactly the kind of posts you're now asking for more of.
No, we want results. We want proof. We don't want to be lied to again like we were for 9 MONTHS. I am sick of the developer excuses of, "That's hard, that takes time, we are trying." I call major BS on the devs.
Thunderheart and the other devs shouldn't have commited solutions to problems if they were never going to follow through. That's the norm with these people. Promise the best of things, deliver with mediocre, small amounts.
There have been Big Things the Devs needed to focus on for the overall health of the game. Some of them expected, and some of them unexpected. This means that CH isn't under the spotlight. Thinking that "constructive feedback failed" just because ithasn't put us under the spotlight yetsuggests unrealistic expectations. The Devs do listen, and shouldn't have to make regular "We hear you but can't do anything about it yet" posts just to reassure you that this is the case.
This isn't just about CH's. Not for me it isn't. It's about every stupid decission and every lie the devs try to feed us. They can't seem to get anything right. Why not aski the DE's how the Droid Invasion went? Or ask some Imperials and Rebels how the Crackdown went? Or ask Smuggler and Squad Leader how they feel about being ignored since launch? The list goes on and on.
But yet with all the problems caused by the devs, they STILL manage to devote 3-4 months of resources on their main selling point all the while lying to the player base about the Combat and GCW Revamps.
It's sickening...
Message Edited by Aakhperkare on 09-07-2004 08:48 PM
SkyPreacher1 wrote:
History lesson, Readers Digest Condensed Version, By Sky.
August '03, the beginning of the great CH nerf. It was supposed to be small, it changed quite a few things.
December '03, the major nerf of CH. As pluto pointed out, not because we were broken, not because the Devs actually thought up the Combat revamp, but because people spewed enough poison about us to get us nerfed. NERFED, not balanced, there was nothing to balance us against or to or for. Pets became dog meat, Wild creatures became canon fodder. The Melee players shouted hurrah.
January Combat Balance talk
February Combat Rebalance talk
March Everything will be fixed in the Combat Balance
April Your problems will be taken care of in the Combat Revamp
May Be patient we are working on the Combat Revamp
June,what areyou talking about Combat Revamp, there is no combat revamp. We have never said anything about Combat Revamp
July, There is no Combat Revamp until after JTL
August, Summit Combat Revamp looks awesome we will have to bring people off of JTL after it releases
Sept. We hired more people to do Combat Revamp so it can go ahead Full speed.
For any doubters out there, I would be more than happen to provide the compiled list of lies of the GCW and the Combat Rebalance. As Sky described, that'spretty muchhow it went down.
In the mean time, in between time, we have had 5 major publishes? Not one fix of our bugs (oops sorry my cupa doesn't fidget anymore) numerous hotfixes (vendors stopped one day and the world collapsed).
Yeah, we were given the ability to examine out pets through the toolbar. Factional vitality loss on pets is still unconfirmed as fixed or not and that's pretty much it. Remember when TH said there would be a little something for all professions in the "monthly" publishes?
In the in between time we had The Imperial Crack up, The Droid Perversion, and Now the Jedi Junkie Jalopy. Not one, read my lips, not one of their publishes has ever delivered even close to what they promised or said it would. NOT ONE.
Nothing but half-hearted (hey, that's a good name for Thunderheart) attempts and sloppy coding.
Merchants were going to get the axe twice. Went to their forums and you want to talk about outrage, banging their fists, yelling, Boot stomping, and threats of massive cancellations and guess what, the Devs miraculously saw the light.
Another example of what the devs respond to. Community outrage (even though, we are supposedly in the minority, everyone else is happy and playing the game).
Don't give me this horse manure that yelling and threatening to quit doesn't work. IF all the CH's back in Dec. would have quit, this game would have had insta Perma Death. But we were told, be patient, have faith, we are working on it. Well sorry that don't mean spit to me anymore.
We canfaith in the devs lying to us. That's pretty much a given.
AND VERT, no TH does not have anything better to do. What does he do? Sit at his desk with his finger permanently lodged up his nose? Good Grief man he is supposed to be in PR not freaking isolation. Yes it would actually help if his royal redness would get his sorry a$$ in here and actually say he was sorry.
One more day and the Truce is off.
BLUNDER BLUNDER WE WANT NO MORE THUNDER!!
Really. What DOES Thunderheart do all day? What do any of them do all day? I see no progress. I see no devotion. And don't any of you correspondents defend their performance either, because you have NO CLUE of what they do all day long because you're not there to see it.
Why not tell us, you thecorrespondents, how many dev responses you recieve a day on average...
Message Edited by Aakhperkare on 09-07-2004 09:02 PM
And people wonder why Computer gameing world gave SWG
"the coaster of the year award"
I have said it many times
If not for the people I play with and the friends I have made here I would not be playing.
Perhaps Vader and Palpatine should take over game development.
I can see it all now.
Enter to a table where Vader discusses various problems with the game with the devs
Vader " why did the path to jedi inviolve mastering all these useless skills? I was never a taylor?!!?!? And what is this holocorn bull **edit**"
Dev "it seemed like a good way to keep them rare and give people a way to work on it"
Vader "I find your lack of vision distrubing"
Dev *gurgleing noise*
Vader "Correspendent Vert"
Vert "yes Sir"
Vader "You are in command now, don't fail me Developer"
Sound of body hitting floor in backround
Message Edited by taloncard on 09-08-2004 01:21 AM
Tstorm wrote:
Aakhperkare wrote:
Tstorm wrote:
Ok, be angry and mistrustful of the Devs. What have you accomplished with that though?
I realize I will probably never get through to the most disgruntled folks out there, but maybe it'll get some of you thinking a bit. All this whining, complaining, and ranting about the the past does nothing to make things better.
And being helpful, faithful, and constructive towards the devs hasn't made things better for anyone either. So what does it matter?...
It matters because taking your frustration to these forums and testing the limits of the Forum Policies has a tendency of getting players suspended/banned.
That said, there is no wrong in having an opinion even if it is anti-SOE. If your critisism isn't constructive, however, you are a part of the problem not the solution.
I can be critical of SOE by saying the communication from the Devs lately has been poor and it needs improve. Maybe an effort should be made to put aside a certain amount of time per day to address different issues. With that, I have offered critisism and a suggested solution.
If I am critical by saying the Devs' communication is pathetic, better communication was promised months ago and why does what little communication done need to include an insult to CH's, that is more of an attack and not constructive critisism.
Take it for what you will though. If you wish to continue shouting into the wind go for it, but when you cross the line enough to get the attention of the forum moderators, you will only have yourself to blame when you are suspended and/or banned.
No, it doesn't matter. IfI get banned, I get banned. I could really care less. The only difference between those two examples of critisism is the wording. Otherwise, it's saying the same thing, with and with out the sugar coating.
Speaking of which. Better communication has been promised over and over again since last year and they have yet to follow through on that. So we should just make the same canned response to their lack of effort?
"Umm, not to be rude or anything, but I am dissatisfied with the lack of communication promised, so can you make it better...when you have time of course, no need to rush you. Oh, by the way, how was your dinner last night? Thanks devs!!"
I don't think so.
These developers don't deserve people being nice to them. By suggesting everyone just forget the past you are being un-constructive yourself, because the past will just continue to repeat itself if everyone just forgets these developer's past transgressions.
Besides, since when were you the unofficial board admin? Don't worry about how we conduct ourselves, just worry about yourself...
Your mimicry is very close to something I would expect a Dev to say. The Devs are in this for profit. Not EGO. I am sorry if we say things are broke and we have no solutions at any given moment. Then again we usually are not the ones who broke it. Gathering evidence is good. I have offered to meet TH, in this very thread to go see my pets run from pikets. The pikets dizzy them and it's off to the races.
SkyPreacher1 wrote:
History lesson, Readers Digest Condensed Version, By Sky.
...
Don't give me this horse manure that yelling and threatening to quit doesn't work. IF all the CH's back in Dec. would have quit, this game would have had insta Perma Death. But we were told, be patient, have faith, we are working on it. Well sorry that don't mean spit to me anymore.
...
Nice write up...short and to the point. I was one of the CH that actually quit the game because of the December publish. That and once the Jedi path was revealed it was just too much for me to stomach.
The way I see it, the devs will only respond when ppl start cancelling their accounts. I mean, I really put very little faith that anything I publish here will ever "sway" a developer. Now, that's not an excuse for the devs, it's just a realization on my part. So, I decided my voice would be much louder if I simply cancelled both of my accounts. Guess what, they ask you why you are cancelling...then LIMIT the # of characters you have to explain yourself!!! LMAO, nerf the feedback!
As far as trying to instigate change, I tend to agree with Tstorm's and sadnebula's methodologies I appreciate you guys posting.I alsorespect Pluto's, SkyPreacher's and Aakhperkare'sdesire toyell, scream and stomp all ya want and I really hope it works. But I won't engage in the same behavior cuz I don't see it as being productive. IMO, if it gets so bad that every post of mine is negative, angry and filled with "nerf the dev" comments, I willsimply cancel my accounts again.
It's simple really, in war you gotta hit the enemy where it hurts, not where they are prepared and have their defenses established. I hate to say this cuz it might mean more of you will cancel your accounts and I really don't want to see that happen. We need all of you guys around here.....but it is certainly an option. I'm glad I took a break from the game cuz it's fun again. I followed my principles and I'm glad that I did.
Anyways, the game's still fun for me despite all the changes. Sadly, it's even more fun when I don't read the boards. Not just the CH boards but my home server board is not much better. Oh well, I'm off to "play" this game somemore. /peace
Pluto9Moon wrote:I know you and Tstorm mean to help. But if we do it your way then there is no reason to post either. They do not listen.
So please stop posting then. We know you and a very vocal *minority* are very angry, frustrated, and bitter with the Devs. Maybe Vert can make a sticky on your position so we don't have to here it so often.
Using your logic, if they Devs don't listen, posting rants and flames about the Devs is just as pointless as trying to work with them. All the crankiness does is create a hostile environment on this forum and makes the lurkers afraid to participate.
SkyPreacher1 wrote:AND VERT, no TH does not have anything better to do. What does he do? Sit at his desk with his finger permanently lodged up his nose? Good Grief man he is supposed to be in PR not freaking isolation. Yes it would actually help if his royal redness would get his sorry a$$ in here and actually say he was sorry.
Say he's sorry for what? Calling CH's "pokeman" 6 months ago? I have a feeling Thunderheart has long since forgotten it as I don't think he was being malicious in saying it. I was surprised seeing him say it, but I figured it was more of a foot in mouth moment than an attempt to alienate the CH community. Even if Thunderheart were to apologize ("I apologize for the 'pokemon' comment I made 6 months ago.), what then? I sense from this thread that an apology is just the tip of the iceberg of what some want.
Others in this thread have mentioned a need to remember the past so that the same mistakes are made. That is generally a good principle to have if you happen to be the entity in the position of making a future mistake. We aren't SOE so us complaining about how the Devs have messed up in the past does nothing to prevent the same things from happening again.
The problem with Thunderheart's position is he is plugged into everything. It is good in that he has access to everyone and everything to get answers, but it also means he is in a lot of meetings (particularly since his promotion) and finding time to get everything he'd like to get done is a pipe dream.
I am *not* defending Thunderheart, but am merely stating reality. I hear people making a lot of assumptions about how easy it would be to get things done if the Devs worked the "right" way, but it's harder than it looks in reality. That said, I do think we need better communication (I have stated this several times now) and Thunderheart needs at least one assistant (if not an army of them) to do better at interacting with the community.
SkyPreacher1 wrote:One more day and the Truce is off.
I've asked this before, but I guess I missed the answer. How can there be a truce without both parties in the conflict agreeing to it? Is there even a "war"? All I see are a few disgruntled players making meaningless "or else" types of threats that won't really amount to anything. This "truce" thing comes off as a "if you don't share your chocolate cake with me I'm not going to be your friend anymore" kind of thing.
Go ahead and send a letter to gaming magazines about your discontent -- the same magazines published in part with ad revenue from SOE. I've seen game magazines publish articles about problems with games but it is usually very general and not the scathing kinds of stuff I've been seeing from a vocal minority on this forum.
SkyPreacher1 wrote:....and then no matter how hard we get nerfed, we still keep CH because we are still some of the coolest characters on the game.
Now *this* is a great attitude to have. Nerfs or not, good nerf, or bad nerf, CH is a great profession.
Message Edited by Aakhperkare on 09-08-2004 09:25 AM