Creature Handler Archive

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JodoKai wrote:

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Cudayn wrote:

I can solo very well, I thought my previous post illustrated that point. I have nothing but my pets to protect and kill for me. My pets are my weapons, they are my armor. Lets see a rifleman hold a rifle in his data pad for a week until it matures before he can be truely effective with it. My pet, when it gets incapped by a DBing creature, loses vitality, period. Are pets that we use to hunt with that do lose vitality not concidered a weapon? I can not keep a pet forever unless I do not risk it in combat. Same goes for a weapon, unless you use it. it will not decay (Not taking the Clone Decay factor as concideration here because you can insure it, its a choice or you can store it in your home or deposit box).

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I'm not going to get into the combat class, or combat support argument as I've said before it's irrelavent (and just because you can quote a Dev, doesn't make it a fact, if you don't believe that I'll show you a bunch of examples), but I have a Rancor that I got when I first made novice CH and could pull him. I still have him and use him quite often. This was about 9 months ago. Show me a rifleman/pistoleer/swordsman that has had the same "weapon" for 9 months.

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Message Edited by Cudayn on 07-14-2004 11:05 AM

Message Edited by Cudayn on 07-14-2004 11:10 AM

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Dodece wrote:

Like I said by that logic you are saying everyone is a combat class. You kill a kreetle your a combat class. By the way ch dosent use combat xp. A ch uses maskscent xp harvesting xp, and chxp. No combat xp in there. You might get it but you never use it. A melee fighter could pull out a cdef and shoot a rat. He gets pistol xp.

Actually you are a little incorrect, harvesting and maskscent are scout xp, not CH xp. Now attacking with a pet, even though it is obtained via combat, is Creature Handler xp, not combat xp, in that aspect you are right.

I also said a ch was very good at fighting mobs. Didnt say anything contrary to that. In PVP though with no other combat skills. A CH is a dead dog. If you judge a combat on both pve and pvp survivability, and a chance to win. CH dosen't fit in that catagory. Likewise if there was a profession in the game. That excelled at pvp, but died with ease at the hands of a scyk. I would not call them a combat class either. I was just compareing the nuts and bolts. No ch out there dosent have a little combat somewhere else. I simply pointed out a squad leader a cm and a ch. Just on the bones of that profession nothing else. That even against another profession will lose. A combat medic can poison me till the cows come home. If he cannot put on that final pop i will just shoot him till he dies. The squad leader can stand there and bark commands until I shoot him till he dies. A ch can sick a pet on me, but if he just stands there. I will just shoot him till he dies.

Its all very rational, and quite frankley why take it personally. You are not just a ch asmuch as a cm is not just a cm or a sl is just a sl. They all got a peice of combat somewhere. So its in no way meant as a slander. Why you feal the need to take it as such is beyond me, and the fact that your ch block is a combat support, and not a combat. Dosent mean its not a valuable worthwhile skill. Do I knock my medic, because it is not a combat skill. No why not because it is useful it supporst my combat and combat support. It is a support skill in which i can support others aswell.

Asfor calling a pet a weapon. That is stretching it alot. In RL people do not call pets weapons. The hound that chases convicts or the police dog that knocks perps to the ground are not called weapons. I do not call people weapons either. Even though you could walk in a room and kick someones face in. Weapons are tools. Weapons do only one thing well. A pet is a team mate a partner. Lastly the rules in the game that apply to weapons do not apply to pets. No matter how ginger I am with the use of my krayt pistol eventually it will decay and after a few repairs will blow up. A pet used gingerly and with great care can last forever.

I am just saying that if given the choice I will say a ch is not a combat class.

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Dodece wrote:

I think you guys missed the point. People are trying to concoct up ideas to make the pets as strong as players, and still be able to keep their combat on the side. In other words they want it back the way it was before december. Where one person with great ease could gang bang another person. With next to no strategy involved. The answer is in no way should any one player have the power of two, and have such a huge range of attacks. I could see if you wanted to have the time to access more of your pets talents in a battle. Sometimes you get unlucky and your foe uses the right tool and the right way and the pet is down very quickly.

It would appear you've missed the point also. Each profession has a role and therefore it has strengths and weaknesses. The way I see it, if 2 TKM's are strolling through the woods and one master rifleman sees them at a distance, he should be able to waste them easily before they ever get close enought to hit him...does that give him the power of 2 players?...no--it gives him the advantage of his role. Now if one TKM sneaks up to 2 rifleman, he should be able to disarm them and incap them with ease, all part of being a master of his role. I want strategy as much as the next guy.

The problem is most of this thinking is takeing place in the realm of this day. When in the future buffs will be curtailed, as will specials. On that day a pet leveling 500 points of damage on an opponent will be nothing to sneeze at. Right now its even hard to realize exactly what effect your pet is haveing in a fight. Sometimes combats make takeing down a pet look all too easy, but the majority of combats rightfully deduce. It is better to use a few powerful specials rather then let the pet chew on them. So they suck up the ham cost of putting the animal down.

The other problem is that the combat revamp/balancing act hasn't been finalized and tested, so we still don't know what 500 pointsof damage will mean.

People are moaning alot that ch should be as strong as a tka or anyother combat class. It should never be that strong. If they bumped up the damage on pets enough to make it noticeable. Then we could count on the number of people doing ch to quadruple. Roleplaying is not an excuse either. I just want to fill a role. This is not a movie its a game. Would you like to sit down to a game of poker, and find out but john gets eight cards to start with. Some of the role must be sacraficed for playing sake. If people just played based on the role they want to pretend to be. Then it would be conceivable, but not all people do that. Some people play to beat up other people. People would play the role of stable keeper. If the shovel it came with was a weapon from hell.

...losing a little respect for your argument here, or maybe I'm not understanding you.

The game was built for dabbling. Thats the point of their being 46 occupations in the game. Some skills are built to be sufficent in combat on their own others are not. A doctor dosent get neurotoxins. A dancer dosent get a concealed weapon mod. A ch will never get a pet so strong that it alone will solo a player. In a little time. When armor gets cut buffs get cut specials get cut. Then the ch will find itself a little stronger. Atleast more relevant in combat.

I agree with dabbling--i'm MCH/MBE/Pistoleer0040...that should be the power of 1.8 characters --and yes, some pets should be able to take down "some" players with ease--especially those that it wouldn't fit their roles to be engaged in battle with a Rancor solo...sorry but no argument about it being a game will make that fly.

Oh a pet does give a group fighting edge. Fight a target that five people cannot solo. Add in a pet to tank, and you can win. Not to mention that when your grouped with a ch you get a mod to peal aggros off of you. A group bonus no matter how small. Aslong as anyone in the group can derive benefits from it is a group bonus.

You say a pet shouldn't help us equal the power of 2 players, then you say 5 players + a pet should be able to handle what the 5 couldn't,does that mean you think a pet should be 1/5 a player's effectiveness?...ouch, I hope not.

I do not think my analogy goes too far. If you want ch to be a combat class like a tka or a pistoleer. It would need to function exactly like they do. Haveing a pet out in use in combat should never be like haveing two players. If that were the case everyone would be a ch. Then you could play the role of being exactly like everyone else.

Everyone that wants to be a CH can, not a problem really. Believe it or not, not everyone wants to be a Jedi--hard to believe, but true.

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Message Edited by ScoutMastr on 07-14-2004 02:35 PM

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StikerRunningfly wrote:

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DaBudo2 wrote:

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BlindTyldak wrote:

Well, you know I agree with you completely.

The problem comes down to we are also the only combat class that allows you to use another weapon at the same time. This is the real sticking point. Unfortunately what the developers decided to do was relegate it to a very expensive support class, when what they should have dome was retain it as a combat class but ballance it by somehow not allowing elite combat professions to combine with it. My personal choice would be to expand the class and have it take more skill points, but a simple code that disables elite combat profession novice boxes would do the trick as well.

Either wany, it does need to be recognized as a separate combat profession, not a "skill points for armor that distracts things" profession.

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True,I thinkit would be perfectly acceptable to limit the CH use of other weapons as long as pets were comparable to other weapons in effectiveness. I'd be okay with not being able to use any other weapon of any kind at the same time. Assuming that we would still have the option of using another weapon - just not when we have pets called. Like any other class, we could invest skill points in another combat profession, but then we would have to "switch out" our weapons as many players do. So, the devs could make CH aviable combat class and do it in a fair way.

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No, I do not feel that weapon use should be limited while creatures are out. I've seen so many commando/TKM's, fencer/pistoleers, rifleman/combat medics, fencer/TKM/brawlers, fencer/swordsmen, you name it. The one thing that remains is that they continue to use part of all of each profession as they fight. Fencers get high defense even when they aren't holding swords. TK's get the use of meditate, even if they aren't fighting unarmed. CMs get to throw their poisons and then turn around and fire their rifles. Doctors can heal themselves then continue fighting. When every other combo of prefessions is limited, then think about this one as well.

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Can't argue with that

Dunk Wunklin (Lowca)

4,3,3,4 Combat CH / 4,4,2,4 Ranger / 4,4,0,0 Medic

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JodoKai wrote:

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DaBudo2 wrote:

Futhermore, it isa pure combat profession.

I have to disagree with this part. I feel CH's can be best compared to Squad Leaders. A Squad Leader is without a doubt a combat profession there is no other way for a SL to get XP other than to fight. CH you could (though it would take years) go through the profession without ever attacking anything.

SL gets XP based on the overall group's performance while in combat. As the size of the group increases, so does the XP. To my knowledge, an SL can not get XP while doing things alone and ungrouped. His job is to support the group, with skills that support the group. An SL CAN go through the entire profession from novice to master with little or no combat, and it would not take years.

Keep in mind, though,thatwhether or not CH is an effective combat profession is another issue entirely.

Is CH a combat profession or a support profession? Let's first define our terms.

- "A combat profession is one thatprovides skills/weapons for the express purpose of allowing one to engage in combat."

Yes? No?

- "A support profession has no skills/weapons allowing one to engage in combat but ratherprovides skills/tools that enable other professions to function more effectively."

Yes? No?

Examples of support professions that do not have skills/weapons allowing one to engage in combat:

architect, artisan, politician (mudslining does not count as combat ), entertainer, medic (combat medic excepted).

Examples of combat professions that do have skills/weapons allowing them to engage in combat:

Rifleman, Pistoleer, Fencer, Teras Kasi, Bounty Hunter.

Again where would SL fit into this example?

SL has skills that benefit the group. Not one skill in SL will allow him/her to defeat anyone without the use of a weapon and skills to use it. SL's do use weapons, but the ability to effectively use those weapons are based on the skills in that weapon tree, not in the SL tree. If you master SL and ONLY SL, you will be no better off than a novice marksman with a CDEF pistol. Therefor, since his skills aid others in combat and not him alone, it is a support profession.

What people either overlook or will not acknowledge isthat the Creature Handler profession does, in fact, provide weapons allowing one to engage in combat. Obviously, the weapons are the pets. Pets have one primary purpose: to fight. (That they are also companions is a secondary benefit). What is one of the first commands a novice CH gets? Attack. What is a primary way a CH gains experience? Using their pets to attack and kill. There is NO support class (well, certainly none I can think of) that gains experience through fighting/killing.

Is there really any difference between someone pulling a triggerand someone sending a pet?In either instance, a weapon is being used.It just sohappens that one weapon is inanimate and the other is alive. Again -if CH is an effective combat profession, or even if pets are effective as a weapon, is all together another issue. ButCH is a combat profession.As such, it should have the chance to compete asany othercombat profession.

A big problem with this way of thinking is that you can use a CH skills at the same time you can use your pistoleer/TKM etc. This would be like if I were a Pistoleer/Rifleman being able to use Mind Shot 3 with my D-10 Pistol, or getting my accuracy while moving bonuswith my T-21. If CH were made just as effective as a these other combat professions, it would be the same thing. So while I agree that CH is a combat profession, I don't think it should be as effective as pistoleer, TKA etc.

Oh you mean like how a combat medic throws a poison, a disease, then uses head shots you till you're dead? Or are you referring to the fencer/TKM/pistoleer who uses defenses from all three, plus meditates to powerboost, then turns around and picks up his geonosian blaster and goes to town? Or maybe the doctor that heals his health by 1400 points right in the middle of a fight? Or is it the commando who also uses powerboost then shoots his flame thrower? Or maybe the other commando who uses eyeshot with his launcher pistol? Or perhaps the BH who gets a jedi mission then goes and uses his TK skills to try to take him out? Need I go on? The point is that there are multitudes of people in the game who combine more than one profession because they can be used all at the same time. Most of them are defensive skills, but they do combine from one profession to the next. A CH/pistoleer is not really different than any of these others, they just combine more than one type of attack (don't CM's do that now?) instead of combining defenses like most of these other combinations do.

In one old thread, someone referred to CH as animal trainers. Well, true. So? Marksman train to learn to use a weapon.Unarmed train their bodies to be a weapon. A CH trains his pet as the weapon.

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Hope this was a friendly enough rebuttle

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DaBudo2 wrote:

LOL I wish I could remember what thread I read this, so I could properly quote the guy (or maybe gal ). It was in the context of GCW & combat rebalance I think. Essentially, he said that CH was balanced 9 months ago, and it's everybody else who is out of balance. Now, there's a thought to help you sleep at night.

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Cudayn wrote:

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StikerRunningfly wrote:

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DaBudo2 wrote:

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BlindTyldak wrote:

Well, you know I agree with you completely.

The problem comes down to we are also the only combat class that allows you to use another weapon at the same time. This is the real sticking point. Unfortunately what the developers decided to do was relegate it to a very expensive support class, when what they should have dome was retain it as a combat class but ballance it by somehow not allowing elite combat professions to combine with it. My personal choice would be to expand the class and have it take more skill points, but a simple code that disables elite combat profession novice boxes would do the trick as well.

Either wany, it does need to be recognized as a separate combat profession, not a "skill points for armor that distracts things" profession.

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True, I think it would be perfectly acceptable to limit the CH use of other weapons as long as pets were comparable to other weapons in effectiveness. I'd be okay with not being able to use any other weapon of any kind at the same time. Assuming that we would still have the option of using another weapon - just not when we have pets called. Like any other class, we could invest skill points in another combat profession, but then we would have to "switch out" our weapons as many players do. So, the devs could make CH a viable combat class and do it in a fair way.

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No, I do not feel that weapon use should be limited while creatures are out. I've seen so many commando/TKM's, fencer/pistoleers, rifleman/combat medics, fencer/TKM/brawlers, fencer/swordsmen, you name it. The one thing that remains is that they continue to use part of all of each profession as they fight. Fencers get high defense even when they aren't holding swords. TK's get the use of meditate, even if they aren't fighting unarmed. CMs get to throw their poisons and then turn around and fire their rifles. Doctors can heal themselves then continue fighting. When every other combo of prefessions is limited, then think about this one as well.

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Can't argue with that

Dunk Wunklin (Lowca)

4,3,3,4 Combat CH / 4,4,2,4 Ranger / 4,4,0,0 Medic

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StikerRunningfly wrote:

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JodoKai wrote:

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DaBudo2 wrote:

Futhermore, it isa pure combat profession.

I have to disagree with this part. I feel CH's can be best compared to Squad Leaders. A Squad Leader is without a doubt a combat profession there is no other way for a SL to get XP other than to fight. CH you could (though it would take years) go through the profession without ever attacking anything.

SL gets XP based on the overall group's performance while in combat. As the size of the group increases, so does the XP. To my knowledge, an SL can not get XP while doing things alone and ungrouped. His job is to support the group, with skills that support the group. An SL CAN go through the entire profession from novice to master with little or no combat, and it would not take years.

Using that logic, Pistoleers have Health shot and Riflemen have Mind Shot they can't both be combat professions because of all the differences between the two. See how worng that sounds? Pointing out minute differences in how they get XP doesn't really make them dissimilar.

Keep in mind, though,thatwhether or not CH is an effective combat profession is another issue entirely.

Is CH a combat profession or a support profession? Let's first define our terms.

- "A combat profession is one thatprovides skills/weapons for the express purpose of allowing one to engage in combat."

Yes? No?

- "A support profession has no skills/weapons allowing one to engage in combat but ratherprovides skills/tools that enable other professions to function more effectively."

Yes? No?

Examples of support professions that do not have skills/weapons allowing one to engage in combat:

architect, artisan, politician (mudslining does not count as combat ), entertainer, medic (combat medic excepted).

Examples of combat professions that do have skills/weapons allowing them to engage in combat:

Rifleman, Pistoleer, Fencer, Teras Kasi, Bounty Hunter.

Again where would SL fit into this example?

SL has skills that benefit the group. Not one skill in SL will allow him/her to defeat anyone without the use of a weapon and skills to use it. SL's do use weapons, but the ability to effectively use those weapons are based on the skills in that weapon tree, not in the SL tree. If you master SL and ONLY SL, you will be no better off than a novice marksman with a CDEF pistol. Therefor, since his skills aid others in combat and not him alone, it is a support profession.

Wow that sounds exactly how people are describing CH right now.

What people either overlook or will not acknowledge isthat the Creature Handler profession does, in fact, provide weapons allowing one to engage in combat. Obviously, the weapons are the pets. Pets have one primary purpose: to fight. (That they are also companions is a secondary benefit). What is one of the first commands a novice CH gets? Attack. What is a primary way a CH gains experience? Using their pets to attack and kill. There is NO support class (well, certainly none I can think of) that gains experience through fighting/killing.

Is there really any difference between someone pulling a triggerand someone sending a pet?In either instance, a weapon is being used.It just sohappens that one weapon is inanimate and the other is alive. Again -if CH is an effective combat profession, or even if pets are effective as a weapon, is all together another issue. ButCH is a combat profession.As such, it should have the chance to compete asany othercombat profession.

A big problem with this way of thinking is that you can use a CH skills at the same time you can use your pistoleer/TKM etc. This would be like if I were a Pistoleer/Rifleman being able to use Mind Shot 3 with my D-10 Pistol, or getting my accuracy while moving bonuswith my T-21. If CH were made just as effective as a these other combat professions, it would be the same thing. So while I agree that CH is a combat profession, I don't think it should be as effective as pistoleer, TKA etc.

Oh you mean like how a combat medic throws a poison, a disease, then uses head shots you till you're dead? Or are you referring to the fencer/TKM/pistoleer who uses defenses from all three, plus meditates to powerboost, then turns around and picks up his geonosian blaster and goes to town? Or maybe the doctor that heals his health by 1400 points right in the middle of a fight? Or is it the commando who also uses powerboost then shoots his flame thrower? Or maybe the other commando who uses eyeshot with his launcher pistol? Or perhaps the BH who gets a jedi mission then goes and uses his TK skills to try to take him out? Need I go on? The point is that there are multitudes of people in the game who combine more than one profession because they can be used all at the same time. Most of them are defensive skills, but they do combine from one profession to the next. A CH/pistoleer is not really different than any of these others, they just combine more than one type of attack (don't CM's do that now?) instead of combining defenses like most of these other combinations do.

Okay there are some examples of it right now, all of them are getting taken care of. The CM can't throw posion and shoot his gun at the same time anymore than a scout can throw a trap and shoot at the same time, and of course Defense Stacking is getting addressed too. But again this is complete different than a BH being able to use Eye Shot with an LLC or a Rifleman/Pistoleer being able to use Mindshot3 with a DX2. This is what you are asking for when you want CH to be as powerful as pistoleers etc. CH's would be able to use both elite OFFENSIVE combat skills at the same time. That just isn't fair. You have 1 character with the power of 2 seperate characters. If that happens, who isn't going to want to be twice as powerful? EVERYONE that wants to fight will be a CH. And please don't try the Pets are just weapons line people like to throw around. If anyone thinks a pet is only as usefull as a gun then they obviously have no idea how to be a CH.

In one old thread, someone referred to CH as animal trainers. Well, true. So? Marksman train to learn to use a weapon.Unarmed train their bodies to be a weapon. A CH trains his pet as the weapon.

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Hope this was a friendly enough rebuttle

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I can see the point you're trying to make, but I think you are a bit off on your thinking.

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Condensed to make it a little shorter.

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StikerRunningfly wrote:

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JodoKai wrote:
I have to disagree with this part. I feel CH's can be best compared to Squad Leaders. A Squad Leader is without a doubt a combat profession there is no other way for a SL to get XP other than to fight. CH you could (though it would take years) go through the profession without ever attacking anything.

SL gets XP based on the overall group's performance while in combat. As the size of the group increases, so does the XP. To my knowledge, an SL can not get XP while doing things alone and ungrouped. His job is to support the group, with skills that support the group. An SL CAN go through the entire profession from novice to master with little or no combat, and it would not take years.

Using that logic, Pistoleers have Health shot and Riflemen have Mind Shot they can't both be combat professions because of all the differences between the two. See how worng that sounds? Pointing out minute differences in how they get XP doesn't really make them dissimilar.

No, what I am saying is that CH can (and often do) fight and gain XP without any other players with them. Creatures are useful to them alone, and do not require a group with other players to use their skills. Squad leader's onlyjob is to benefit a GROUP of people in combat. None of the squad leader skills are beneficial to him alone. He supports others. Creature handler skills CAN be used to help others, but are not required to in order to gain XP. Squad leaders are complete support roles due to the fact that their skills and requirements for gaining XP are SOLELY based on assisting (or leading) other people. CH's don't have that requirement.

Examples of support professions that do not have skills/weapons allowing one to engage in combat:

architect, artisan, politician (mudslining does not count as combat ), entertainer, medic (combat medic excepted).

Examples of combat professions that do have skills/weapons allowing them to engage in combat:

Rifleman, Pistoleer, Fencer, Teras Kasi, Bounty Hunter.

Again where would SL fit into this example?

SL has skills that benefit the group. Not one skill in SL will allow him/her to defeat anyone without the use of a weapon and skills to use it. SL's do use weapons, but the ability to effectively use those weapons are based on the skills in that weapon tree, not in the SL tree. If you master SL and ONLY SL, you will be no better off than a novice marksman with a CDEF pistol. Therefor, since his skills aid others in combat and not him alone, it is a support profession.

Wow that sounds exactly how people are describing CH right now.

That's kind of like saying that becausea buffed, armored master fencer decides to tank for a group, that fencer is now a support profession. No, that's wrong. CH skills can be used alone or in a group. Using a pet in a group does not suddenly add defenses to the group, it doesn't allow the group to run faster if everyone gets in a jam, it doesn't direct the whole group on one target to effectively take it out. All it adds is another attack, and another body for whatever you're fighting to have to deal with. It's no different from that buffed, armored master fencer (or any other elite bralwer profession) except it's not another player, it's someone's pet, and it doesn't have to be used to support other players. That pet is just another form of attack.

A big problem with this way of thinking is that you can use a CH skills at the same time you can use your pistoleer/TKM etc. This would be like if I were a Pistoleer/Rifleman being able to use Mind Shot 3 with my D-10 Pistol, or getting my accuracy while moving bonuswith my T-21. If CH were made just as effective as a these other combat professions, it would be the same thing. So while I agree that CH is a combat profession, I don't think it should be as effective as pistoleer, TKA etc.

Oh you mean like how a combat medic throws a poison, a disease, then uses head shots you till you're dead? Or are you referring to the fencer/TKM/pistoleer who uses defenses from all three, plus meditates to powerboost, then turns around and picks up his geonosian blaster and goes to town? Or maybe the doctor that heals his health by 1400 points right in the middle of a fight? Or is it the commando who also uses powerboost then shoots his flame thrower? Or maybe the other commando who uses eyeshot with his launcher pistol? Or perhaps the BH who gets a jedi mission then goes and uses his TK skills to try to take him out? Need I go on? The point is that there are multitudes of people in the game who combine more than one profession because they can be used all at the same time. Most of them are defensive skills, but they do combine from one profession to the next. A CH/pistoleer is not really different than any of these others, they just combine more than one type of attack (don't CM's do that now?) instead of combining defenses like most of these other combinations do.

Okay there are some examples of it right now, all of them are getting taken care of. The CM can't throw posion and shoot his gun at the same time anymore than a scout can throw a trap and shoot at the same time, and of course Defense Stacking is getting addressed too. But again this is complete different than a BH being able to use Eye Shot with an LLC or a Rifleman/Pistoleer being able to use Mindshot3 with a DX2. This is what you are asking for when you want CH to be as powerful as pistoleers etc. CH's would be able to use both elite OFFENSIVE combat skills at the same time. That just isn't fair. You have 1 character with the power of 2 seperate characters. If that happens, who isn't going to want to be twice as powerful? EVERYONE that wants to fight will be a CH. And please don't try the Pets are just weapons line people like to throw around. If anyone thinks a pet is only as usefull as a gun then they obviously have no idea how to be a CH.

No, a CM can't do both at once, BUT he can continue to fire while his poison and disease are still affecting the target. By your logic, if he poisons and diseases someone, he shouldn't be able to fire his weapon as long as his poison or disease is still in effect. That scout can't use a weapon until the trap stops taking effect. The other point is that defense stacking is still able to be used at this time. Someone can use defenses and benefits from multiple professions at once. Have you ever tried mastering pistoleer and trying to shoot a TKM/fencer? Even at ideal range, with a +25 mod on the pistol, with a powerup that adds 30% to ideal range mod, you see "miss miss dodge dodge miss dodge". Why? Because he's using skills from 2-3 different professions at once. Now add to that pistoleer a pet or two (if they were effective) that can help counterbalance that. You might miss a lot with that pistol, but the pet might land a few hits, making it more of a fair fight. The problem at this point is finding the balance between being stacked on one side or the other, or being a fair fight where the outcome is unknown. Now for your other point, I don't see anyone here asking for creatures to be able to use mind shot, health shot, or any other special that we get with our other weapons. Creatures are just a secondary line of offense/defense no different than stacking any other combination of professions together.

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