Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Making CH Competitive
valetman wrote:
JoNakU wrote:
Ryyger wrote:
Jon, think for a moment. Would you rather he asked for the sun and stars and was told no, or he asked for the lamp over there and actually got it? Massive changes simply arn't going to happen, and demanding them is going to drown out the smaller things we actually have a chance of getting.
I think that Vert would agree with your comment. And if so, I would call that thinking dangerous and arrogant. And ultimately fruitless.
Why?
Because Vert would then be appropriating -- taking without permission -- the CH community's role to think for itself. He is a "president", not a "king". That means he needs to HONESTLY represent the views of the CH community -- whatever they might be. Otherwise, he is ignoring the CH community and instead figuring out "what's best for the CH community" as if the CH community can't think rationally for itself.
But you know what? It can. And that's why so many of our CH brothers and sisters have left the game or to pursue other professions.
And if the CH community wants to ask for "the sun and stars" -- that's okay! And it should be Vert's jobto reflect that. It *can* work. The Jedi community kept hammering for months through their correspondent mouthpiece that permadeath had to go. Few Jedi and most trolls believed that the devs would never give in. But it *did* work.
As a result, Vert is singlehandedly sabotaging our chances to regain back the former glory and former fun inherent in our profession.
The problem with that argument is a simple one, Jedi is a good selling point, and is WANTED in game, CH is not a good selling point, is , arguably , not wanted in game, and there is no chance of reverting to pre nerf CH, nomatter how much you think its right to do so.
Our 'former glory' as you put it, WAS overpowered, and I for one, would not want to go back to that situation.We need help in PvP, bug fixes, and some content, all of which Vert is trying to get.
That is a feasible target, our 'Former Glory' is not, and should never be, a target.If you remember back then, you would know why.
You're WAY off topic. I am not interested in your opinion as to whether or not CH was overpowered.
I am interested in making sure that theopinions of the CH community *overall* are represented properly via the correspondent. If the community feels like it was nerfed (as evidenced by themass exodus), then THAT'S the opinion that should be represented to the devs. Not *your* opinion. Not *Vert's* opinion. The *COMMUNITY'S* opinion.
That's why I didn't say they haven't happened. The devs made massive changes in response to poor balance and overshot the mark. Even if they do go for another massive change, do you really want to risk it? I don't.
Absolutely concur, and this doesn't just apply to our little flea infested corner of SWG; it applies to the entire game. QA seems to be job last at SWG.
KzinKiller wrote:
I would like to see evidence that the devs learn from their mistakes. Basically, I've seen no progress to brag about in communication, quality control, testing or focus since the first day of release. It's still a muddled, confused, poorly led project and the results are just what you'd expect.
The January State of the Profession that you refer to is... well... from January. It is out of date, and will be replaced soon. The Issues List that I submitted to TH is very current, however, and does have majorsweepingthings like "give us a useful niche in which to excel" and "make us more competitive with other combat professions" right up there toward the top.
Ryyger makes an excellent point. I can and am asking for the "sun, moon, and stars." Big things don't happen fast, though. So it is logical to also ask for smaller things that might be doable sooner to tide us over.
I would disagree with the statement that CHs are "leaving in droves." I don't have access to any server statistics, but I still see lots of CHs both in and out of game. This is still one of the highest traffic profession forums on the SWG website (threads slip off the front page after 10-11 hours, as opposed to 6-7 days on some profession forums). Which is not to say we're in a perfect state... but let's work together to constructively get there. 
Message Edited by Vertexon on 04-13-2004 03:52 PM
KzinKiller wrote:
So no, it's not CH's per se leaving at the moment, because the Great Nerf of '03 already took out most everybody but the die-hards ... it's just that CH's are heading for the exit at the same rate as everybody else who has reached their limits on dealing with bad code.
I was a die-hard untill the stagnacy of maxed exp was forcing me to play less... there is absolutly no reward for being a master anything, other then a "Badge" oooohhh wooopie.... they should make it an evolving thing where once you get master at any profession after say 200K exp in that profession you get a perk, asa CH you should get say +5 to max callable CL
they verey seriously need to rethink the upper end of the professions and revamp them so that people stay with the profession they like, not cast it away like a snotty rag. there are a few of the FSCS hunter that have done "every" profession, when they get board with Jedi, then what?
I need some tranquilizors, straightjacket, and an exorcism kit here stat!
Jon,
Vert, as I understand it can only sumbit the top 5 at the time things are to be turned into the Devs. This can create quite a bit of controversy. If I submit my top 5 now. And this list was made before JustG's announcement that combat reblance would be waylaid. If you read the whole link you can see where all the meaner CH's categorically accuse the Dev team of screwing CH. There has been no attempt to reassure us of anything. In fact, we are blatantly told that rebalance is in the closet. The game is progressing according to everyone's wishes. Except the CH.
Before this past month I too bashed Vert often and hard. He did not post enough to this board (imho). I feel there is some truth to the quote "out of sight out of mind" and less to "absence makes the heart grow fonder". Except TH who talked the whole community into accepting a nerf and then is happy it is left broken. Vert begin posting more often, which is all I am really asking. I am very public about my general feelings towards the Devs. They are not willing to speak on anything.
Let me show you something. If you read my posts in the above linked thread, I ask "Why are you screwing CH?" of JustG. Here in lies the replies:
JustG
Hey...
We are not screwing CH's. We are going to be putting alot of the balance in along the way. Your comments are exactly the type that cause the devs to NOT communcate with the players.
Chill out please.
- g
Re: Hey...
I chilled out 4 months ago. Since then every broken thing along the way has been ignored. You all chilled out fixing the things you broke in the process of nerfing us. At this point you cannot call it anything else. I will not stay frosty for another 6 months to a year. So there better be more than silence. You need to explain this in better detail to the CH's. No one else has the courage to tell you this. I am not here to Dev worship. You are the farthest thing from an idol. Fix what you broke. And approach us. Nothing ventured nothing gained.
lol... I am just a guy doing my job. There is no conspiracy. We don't hate CH's. We are just doing the best we can.
The best way for you to get results is to work through your correspondent.
- g
Re: Hey...
Look if youre serious about that come say it. Put a rednamed comment in our forum and say it. Apologize that we have to bite the bullet on this, and make it sound less vague like you did in the first IM. That some balance things will be introduced and over time we will be less weak compared to other classes. I understand we will not be the end all be all tanks, but you have to understand with all the attention on nerfing us, making droids stronger, any debate on everyone getting uber droids, and no immediate combat rebalance the cards are stacked against CH. The dissidents numbers grow stronger every day. You can help stop it or you can feed it. We do want an apology from TH for poke comments too.
To put that all in Context. JustG tried to redirect the fire back to Vert. JustG has not posted ANYTHING since March 25th. Now you can read that one of two ways. I am not blind I see it too. Either it means Vert is not doing his job at all or it means we are just getting shafted. I for one believe it is time to take stock in vaseline. Vert has continued with renewed effort to make this a positive forum. I appreciate that. Maybe it is just a carrot. But dammit I am hungry. I know with some degree of certainity that if Vert were not given a top 5 he would not have a blue name. The feedback in the pipedream forums we have been posting of late does more to cushion the blows and I thank Vert for that.
TH and the rest of the Dev team is your real enemy. Getting them to respond to anything is impossible.
Yeah it ain't Verts fault. Don't kill the messenger kill the message sender. Well........maim at the least jk
Mars
Vert my man,
CH's are leaving in Droves, period, end of comment. Before December CH's proliferated the landscape like blowflies on a dead cow. Now, I know of only a handful of MCH's on Kauri server. The ones that I see now ask, how do I hologrind MCH or is there a macro for CH XP.
Add this to your pot, on Kauri, on Talus we had 13 city to towns, thriving, now in the last month we have lost 6 at least. Many cities have fallen below the critical population level and lost their shuttle, our town being one. We fell to 40 people. Two cities (cities not towns) are now totally gone. There is nothing there, nothing left, gone poof out of existence. I see the occasional CH but I don't even wear my MCH tag anymore, I wear Shock Trooper or nothing.
Don't tell me everything is fine when it sucks, I don't buy that.
One last thing, if JustG's comments are out of date, get his sorry butt back in here where he can answer our accusations about his ability or maybe his inability.