CUEmu - Thread Posts

JediNewb

Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:20 pm

I'm a Master CH/Master BE. I sell plenty of tamed and BE'd pets without this garbage. CH does NOT need another nerf, and pet decay would most likely be bad for the professions rather than good. My weapons and armor don't wear out much faster than my pets do.

Things are fine as they are. Leave it be.

MrHawat

Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:20 am

#80

This is an economy issue. If you really think replacing a heavily-used creature every 3-4 months will ruin the enjoyment of the game for you, push you over the edge to ToonTown Online, then there are other issues at work. EVERY profession should be initiating a dialogue about ways to make their work cyclical; this is a persistent universe, and if you don't have a death/renewal cycle, things get very stagnant very fast. Better to initiate and anticipate--attempt some control over it--than have a relatively unconcerned 3rd party do it for us (think devs).

Well, I have been a MCH since shortly after release. What most people do not realize is that we, usually, have to replace pets after every publish. It seems that SOE can not release a publish with out nerfing something that the CH's liked. See many Graul Maulers or Toxic Merrick Battlelords around lately? I am also a Master Gunfighter and that board screamed bloody murder after 1 nerf to one weapon, the FWG5. Try having it happen with every publish and this does not include the countless "Stealth Nerfs." Like having to be a track start to fight with a pet this publish.

Great points. Getting a baby pet from the wild is an expensive, dangerous, time-consuming proposition. Is it stubborness or bitterness or stinginess that keeps you from finding a BE on your homeworld to build you what you're looking for? Faster, easier, and probably not much more expensive than what you're describing.

When I am lucky enought to find a BE to make me a decent pet for under 500K, almost as hard as finding one in the wild and not any cheaper. I use BE pets. I have nothing against them. It is also time consuming, expensive, and unreliable to run all over the galaxy in shuttles only to find that vendor empty or with nothing of value reasonably priced. So, you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. Most people are under the mistaken impression that good pets grow on trees in the wild and all I have to do it take a minute to pick one.

Kharrissa

Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:47 am

#81

"You know when they got rid of the general forums, I thought we were rid of the nerf whiners. Lately, it seems that all the littlesweetheartsare back again with the same old songs. Of course,a certain SoE official referring to the 'poke..' term in a recent post just gave them the boost they needed to return to 'whack-a-CH' mode."

Please note the lack of a logical argument here. This poster has learned that (in this forum) name-calling serves as a usable substitute.

Kharrissa

Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:49 am

#82

"It does seem that CH hate is coming back strong, doesn't it?..."

Please note the lack of a logical argument here. This person has learned that trivializing someone as a hater works perfectly well in this forum.

Tarnblade

Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:54 am

#83

Sylvanrain wrote:

With the market on Armor, Weapons, and Artisan Items constantly in flux where items must be replaced when they get old and used up this ensures that the need for these items remains high. What happens to the market of pets? The way it is going now wouldn't the demand drop off considerably over time if there is no need to refresh the current population of pets in the game? Are there any systems in place or in the works that will ensure the future of CH and BE similar to that of the Armorsmith or Weaponsmith?

Just a concern i have.

Sorry But I completly disagree with you.

This games been running for what ? 2 years now ?

Yet when I go to sell pets there are allways some people out there willing to buy them. And we are talking about your bog standard CH pets.

Not BE pets.

There is absoloutly no need for a new system which causes even more damage to our pets. Theyalready take vit hits.

Yes vit hits only occur if you let your pet get incapd, but its not imposible forVitality to go down if your out soloing a lot.

True if you mostlygroups its not such an issue.

Heres one example of having such an idea implemented.

You spend 5 months or so geting a very rare pet (bull rancor being one example)

You then cant use the pet what so ever in battle because if it gets incapd its stats ( which werent brill to start with ) will go down the drain.

You might as well say that when you get incapd armour and guns instantly get crappy stats applied to them because you died and what you got at the center was poorly made copies.

Comparing our class's to armour smith and weaponsmith doesnt help your argument at all, it just points out how out of touch with Creature handler you are.

If this were the case our pets would have a set number of use's before they would become useless.

Can you honestly see anyone paying for a BE pet or capturing a wild one. Where they somtimes taking up to 1 - 2 days to find the pet.

Another 2 weeks minimum in some casesto let it grow fully.

And then tell them they only have so many uses before they have to repeat the whole process again ?

Guns and armour you can walk up to a vendor, purchase and asuming you have the correctpre-requisitesfor using them, instantly take advantage of the item you have bought.

Kharrissa

Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:04 am

#84

"To be honest, If on the flipside, permadeath was introduced and the power of creatures was upped to the stats of old where a webmaster would have medium armor etc and more, then sure. I believe i couldcome to accept the trade off"

Once again, I want to express my appreciation to Windsplitter for making a positive contribution to the thread. It is pretty clear that we do not agree on the bottom line of this issue, but Windsplitter (unlike some others) iscutting to the core of theargument without resorting to name-calling and trivialization.

Wanji

Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:46 am

#85

320K for a bio-pet, yes they ought to last forever.

Kharrissa

Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:05 am

#86

:320K for a bio-pet, yes they ought to last forever"

Short and to the point, I like that, even though I do not agree with it.

I have to admit that a greater understanding of all the economics issues is not one of my strong points. I do not sell pets, so I am not sure about how permadeath might affect all of the little details of people trying to sell pets.

I do buy a few pets, but mostly I tame my own in the wild. If I bought a pet for 320k, then I would treat it as if it were very valuable. Which sort ofgoes right to the jugular vein of oneof the issues here.

ShakariPsy

Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:13 am

#87

Cramar wrote:

MrHawat wrote:

Just what this profession needs another FREAKING nerf. This one asked for by the profession itself. I can not believe you guys. Sometimes I wonder why Ibother staying with this profession.

I sorry my friend - i think you misunderstand the comment/question. If this 'nerf' as you call it were to go ahead it would actually be beneficial for CH.

Eventually less and less new people will be joining SWG, and since a pet effectively never 'wears out' , in the end people wont need new pets , since everyone has already got one and its not wearing out any time soon.

If this were the case , who would we be training critters for? The market would disappear , making us even more 'useless'.

If however pets wore out and need replacing - like armour , and weapons (which i have to admit i have had to change several times due to them wearing out) then we will always be in a job and will always have demand for our pets.

Maybe the vitality pack should work like the armour/weapons fix -ie with a chance of complete failure, eg the pet is rendereded useless or dead?

Cramar

No it would only be beneficial to BE's not me, it would just make me poor, and have you been living under a rock lol the only pets in great demand are good BE pets not wild tamed ones, so how would my 200k kimo beneficial me by wearing out eh.... so i can have the joy of spending another 200k on another from a BE, that really doesa lot for me there........ The only thing it would do is become another cash sink !!!! and er from the amount of cash I've made from training pets for ppl would cover about and 1/8th of that above mendtioned Kimo, as i hunt for cash and resources

this of courses is just from my chars point of view but I don't know many ppl who make a living training pets or ppl ?????

Jessi'ca Dalani Guild: | LOST | Server: Gorath
Dax Server: Chimaera

ShakariPsy

Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:22 am

#88

Cramar wrote:

Again , at the risk of being arguementative, i disagree!

Cats live about 14 years , dogs about the same , hamsters and gerbils a lot less , pets in real life, do not live as long as their owners?

And the point is really about the economy of the CH profession, other professions have 'tools' that were out and have to be replaced by creative professions , so why shouldn't we have a market place that keeps changing due to pets wearing out?

Cramar

Um try thinking a bit large sized creatures for a reference here, Horses, Lions, Tigers, Elephants, etc all live long life spans 20 to 60 (elephants)years.

but as Chars in SWG don't age full stop how much point is there is making the comparison??... and as i said in an above post the only proffession that would gain from pets wearing out are BE's, and Pets do wear out with vitality, don't look after your pet and its soon gonna be usless, so if pets do wear out it should be as it is now slowly

Jessi'ca Dalani Guild: | LOST | Server: Gorath
Dax Server: Chimaera

Kharrissa

Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:35 am

#89

"No it would only be beneficial to BE's not me, it would just make me poor, and have you been living under a rock lol the only pets in great demand are good BE pets not wild tamed ones, so how would my 200k kimo beneficial me by wearing out eh.... so i can have the joy of spending another 200k on another from a BE, that really doesa lot for me there........ The only thing it would do is become another cash sink !!!! and er from the amount of cash I've made from training pets for ppl would cover about and 1/8th of that above mendtioned Kimo, as i hunt for cash and resources...this of course is just from my chars point of view but I don't know many ppl who make a living training pets or ppl "

This one is very good. It has a sort of "teen angst" thing going for it. My first reaction was that I wanted to give this person a hug.

Let me try to paraphrase this one to sort of cook it down to its core elements.

"I am opposed to permadeath because it will inconvenience me personally. It will inconvenience me personally because I play a style where my pets die all the time. I see my pets as very valuable in terms of what they cost, but not valuable enoughto justifyplaying a style that would ensure their longevity. I want to play a game where I am insulated from the consequences of my own decisions."

How was that? Close? Not even close?

I am sure that my detractors will accuse me of putting words in this person's mouth. So, take your best shot at paraphrasing it yourself. Reduce it to its most basic form.

One thing I will say for this message. Whether intentional or not, it addresses the core issues of the argument.

meroc

Mon Feb 16, 2004 10:24 am

#90

As a MBE I think this is a great idea. As a MCH I think itbites

)

Seriously, what makes you think a change like this wouldactually increase the pet marketfor CH's, and not BE's? A CH will either go and tame their own pet, or buy one off a BE (I've only ever bought one pet off another CH and that was just after I started playing, all the rest have been self tamed or self made). Sure, theres probably a small market for CH's to sell to other CH's, but that'd be mostly for rares and such.

It seemsobvious after all the "revamping" (CH "rares" being relatively sucky compared to BE pets, non-CH market all but gone for CH's except as trainers for BE Sub10's, etc)that the Devs think the relationship should be "BE is to CH, as WS/AS is to Commando".

Personally (and even as a BE), I think if someone spends good money on a pet or tracks down a rare, and they look after it, it should last a long time. Lifes tough enoughas it is for "post-fix" CH's without requiring them to come up with 100+k a month to replace dead pets...

Sylvanrain wrote:

With the market on Armor, Weapons, and Artisan Items constantly in flux where items must be replaced when they get old and used up this ensures that the need for these items remains high. What happens to the market of pets? The way it is going now wouldn't the demand drop off considerably over time if there is no need to refresh the current population of pets in the game? Are there any systems in place or in the works that will ensure the future of CH and BE similar to that of the Armorsmith or Weaponsmith?

Just a concern i have.

Meroc

Taipan's Pet's and Bio Tissues, Anchorhead, Tatooine 430 -5000, Ahazi
Master Bio Engineer, Master Creature Handler, Part time Pistoleer.
BECalc 2.0, the Clone and Tissue Pricing tool for Bio Engineers
Version 1.x mirrored on SWG Warcry

Windsplitter

Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:23 am

#91

actually with regards to the economy, a number of things could happen if permadeath is added without upping existing creature stats

1.Prices couldfall to allow players to purchase pets more often. market experiences increased demand and volume

2. Prices could rise in order to balance out increased demand (unlikely?)

3.Bio EngineersMCH market will experience a decline asMCH's are better off taming/trainingexpendable ammo from the wild to cut cost. Market focus shifts to Non CH market more or less. Non CH pets becomeFMCG or, Fast Moving Consumer Goods like food buffs etc

I think in a case like this for my MBE character, i would be focusing on the non ch market and, dropping prices to keep pets affordable. I would also be hesitant on going out to perform multi generation sampling exercises to create ground breaking results because the amout of time and materialinvested in the process will become severely unjustified. would probably do it still for my own entertainment hahhaha. More likely i will be using a proven process of non ch pet creation which works the first time round to cut down dev and sample time as well as to meet the demands of the market.

For my MCH/TKM character,I think I would probably loose CH forpractical reasonsand start working on master rifleman or another ranged class to compliment TKM. I would wait to see how the community reactsand, to see if anythingis done before commiting to such a course of action.Why switch? Not because imdont enjoy the class. I really do, butfor practical reasons i think i would rather pay for weapons that last considerably longer that can actually do something worthwhile for me when it comes to my own ability to assault or defend in PvP or PvE.

I think another thing to talk about in context to this topic is, What will be the pros and cons of the CH class if permadeath was instilled and, what would be considered a viable trade off to make the change acceptable.

Tenrai Master Ranger | Master Rifleman Chibi's Med Supplies and Chef Suzi's Cafe
BurningFist MCH | TKM | Master Brawler located on Tattooine in Mos Luna
LittlePaw Master Bio Engineer | Ranger at -2300 -4700

Creature Handler Archive

Thread: CH and BE pets. Should they last forever?