Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Publish 7 on Test Center (NOT Live servers)
WHAT ?!??
This thing about the time-delay without a camp (or in a city) is just one part of our "beef".
How about:
- pets disappearing on their own, during combat?
how would someone like it if their rifle disappeared, and then they couldn't call one for a minute?
- pets warping off somewhere unknown
similiar response to the one above
- pets running away and not attacking or defending when told?
... these are just some issues. The fact that we would not be allowed to call our pets (our MAIN source of protection, defense, and sometimes offense) for over a minute, once we are aggro'd ... is just rediculous.
Seriously... try that on someone who uses a different weapon, like a pistol or a rifle, and then listen to the outrage !!!
Max_Dremel wrote:WHAT ?!??
This thing about the time-delay without a camp (or in a city) is just one part of our "beef".
How about:
- pets disappearing on their own, during combat?
how would someone like it if their rifle disappeared, and then they couldn't call one for a minute?
- pets warping off somewhere unknown
similiar response to the one above
- pets running away and not attacking or defending when told?
... these are just some issues. The fact that we would not be allowed to call our pets (our MAIN source of protection, defense, and sometimes offense) for over a minute, once we are aggro'd ... is just rediculous.
Seriously... try that on someone who uses a different weapon, like a pistol or a rifle, and then listen to the outrage !!!
I haven't tried it yet but as I understand it if I am aggroed (in combat) no city or camp is going to help me. Only the 30 (now 15 sec on live) call delay gets removed to 0 in camp or city. The confusion other people have with what we are complaining about is the LARGE number of bugs and the fact that there were additions besides the 30 sec call without a camp option. A minor improvement for one small (very small) place inwhich we were surrounded by houses or in a no build zone so we could not call our pets/vehicles (notice nothing was done till vehicles were affected) So it is an improvement with LITTLE VALUE. Fix the pet pathing and autostore problmes and we would not even care.
Now along with this wonderful improvement we got
No call during combat (I think that already existed)
No call for 60 sec (now 30 sec on live) after combat is over (IE we are dead)
And someone calls this an improvement?
How bout we give this improvement to ALL other combat professions. They get to wait to call their tools of the trade. Their tools dissappear while they travel. Their tools autostore. Let them enjoy our world for a while and maybe they will understand why we are not impressed by the bone.
-Indene-
Tested on live. And for this time sink we are supposed to be thankful?
-Indene-
I went to Dathomir last night, for a Rancor hunt, to get some big-time Creature Handler XP. Here's what happened.
- in the Outpost, called my pet
- met up with all the hunt party members, and headed out on speeders
- the pet cannot keep up, and don't think about slowing down or you'll lose your hunt party and probably get killed by the creatures (if you've never been to Dathomir... go there, head out at least 1000 meters for awhile, and you'll find out)
- got to the 1st Rancor lair... pet was too far behind for any type of call or follow command, had to store it and recall it. Without the camp had to wait 15 seconds... no big deal, right? Wrong !! I was attacked, ran behind other group members, while hitting the Peace button. Had to wait half a minute after combat mode to reissue a call again, then another 15 seconds for the pet. Then I get my pet... one minute after initially calling it. By now, 2 Rancors are dead and I'm sure that the other hunt group members are wondering what the heck I am doing just standing there !!!
- 2nd Rancor lair... same as above, except it happened twice (that I tried to call, got aggro'd, had to run, hit Peace, wait out the timers...)
Now, in the end, I did manage to make a lot of XP last night for CH... since a few of the lairs were quite close together and my pet managed to keep close enough. BUT... you can see the problem with these timer waiting sessions. If it weren't for the protection of my hunt party... I would have been screwed.
Convince the devs to let pets have armor piercing, multiple damage types and do damage equivalent to another master elite spamming specials...and you have yourself a deal.
Seiryuu wrote:
For those of you comparing guns to pets I'll make you a deal: You convince the devs to make it so my gun will continue to fire while I'm incapped, then convince them to let me pull two guns and while the two guns attack one creature let me pull a third to attack a different creature. If you do all that, I'll convince the Marksman communtiy to agree to waiting 15 seconds before we can pull a weapon.
Convince the devs to let pets have armor piercing, multiple damage types and do damage equivalent to another master elite spamming specials...and you have yourself a deal.
And can not change weapon during battle and can not pull weapon if attacked (must already be equipped) etc..... Maybe they should help us with this list (pets have armor piercing etc and we help them get 2 weapons (they have it already but pistoleer would look great with 2 pistols out) and we get rid of the 15 sec delay and the no pull during combat.
Maybe the *balance* is that they can switch to a DOT weapon then back to a different one and we can't switch but can have 3. As to the argument about continue to fire that is what a DOT is. Flame thrower, area poison etc. They all fire even if you are dead. Wish our pets kept killing after we died.
Hey that is another thing they can help push for.-Indene-
Seiryuu wrote:
Convince the devs to let pets have armor piercing, multiple damage types and do damage equivalent to another master elite spamming specials...and you have yourself a deal.
Done. Pets have Dizzy attacks, pets have knockdown attacks, Disease attacks, stun attacks, ranged attacks, bleed attacks.
Now make it everytime every one of your pets attack, it costs you HAM, also make it so my gun has pretty much unlimited range and can shoot around walls. And when my gun attacks, let it have 10k HAM and the creature I'm attacking goes after my gun instead of me.
Do you really believe guns are just as useful as pets or are you just being argumentative?
Not done.
Yes pets can have specials. So do ranged professions. Specials give minor benefits, and the really useful ones are rare. Raw damage is still the most important attribute in a fight. (I would be happy if that was not the case but it is.)
Not to mention, our special commands do not work properly without a kludge. Knockdown and poison cannot be used on command even with the kludge. Ranged attacks were broken for pets with Publish 6.
Since I obviously need to lay these out in a point-for-point basis, I said:
armor piercing - so that damage isn't cut by 50%, 75% or more plus resistances against any high-end targets. Any weapon a novice elite is using will have armor piercing.
multiple damage types - Pets have kinetic. That is it. TKA and Jedi are the only ones to do only kinetic damage. Both are offset with being able to do massive amounts of damage per hit. (Jedi still gripe they should have an unresistable type and TKA want some variety, too.) Every other profession has a choice of at least three types and some have five or more.
damage equivalent - Even if I had 70 CL of pets out, they would never be able to hit more than 700. Actually they seem to average half their listed range even if it is a span of ten. Then when armor and and kinetic resistance kicks in, they are not doing any significant damage.
Now make it everytime every one of your pets attack, it costs you HAM...
Since my pet cannot put on a set of 90% composite, it takes more damage than most players. Yes I can heal them, but those players can heal themselves, too. Players tank better than a pet in many cases.
...also make it so my gun has pretty much unlimited range and can shoot around walls
The range isn't unlimited. A pet left alone is a dead pet.
And when my gun attacks, let it have 10k HAM and the creature I'm attacking goes after my gun instead of me.
Very often we get attacked instead of our pet. As creature handlers we get no offensive or defensive bonuses and will die very quickly when this happens. Maybe we should push for Dodge or Melee defense now that you mention it though. I mean, that would be fair to get what the other professions do, right?
I have explained this elsewhere, but since you seem to have little concept of how pets work, I will sum it up. There are three general ways to use pets in combat.
1) A "pure" handler with no combat skill - In this scenario, even a high level pet is ineffective and will die quickly. In this case the profession is the weakest elite combat profession there is.
2) A master elite with armor and buffs - At this point the character is hindered by pets. Their armor and buffs can handle all but the largest of creatures. Add in the ability to use stims and they are unstoppable. Pets do nothing but slow this person down because they add nothing and require constant watching and healing.
3) Some combat skill with a pet tanking - This is the most effective case. The pet acts as armor while the player's skill does the damage. With good strategies the player is able to solo a large number of things. Make no mistake though, pets enhance the effectiveness of the other combat profession, not the other way around. The creature itself is adding little more to the fight than a shield.
Do you really believe guns are just as useful as pets or are you just being argumentative?
Not only are they just as useful, with someone that knows what they are doing they are significantly more powerful in many cases. I am not argumentative, I am simply correcting an ignorant viewpoint. One that has been pervasive in the non-CH community in assuming we are nigh untouchable deities.
I have been a Rifleman, a Carbineer, a Pistoleer and a Bounty Hunter. On the melee side I have been a master TKA and a master Swordsman. I have also been a Creature Handler since beta 3 (with a few weeks of lapse after release of course). I have experience with all of these and I can tell you without a doubt, master Creature Handlers are current the weakest of all the elite combat professions by themselves.
As with any two professions that can be stacked there is a synergy that boosts your effectiveness, and Creature Handler is easier to mix with others making it more versitile. That does not change the fact that a master of these other professions has no need for pets while a master Creature Handler does need another combat profession to be viable.
Jodo, I noticed you berating someone in another post for not playing other professions and having no clue how they functioned. Have you played a master creature handler to be able to say the same?
If you are, then I would like you to try a test. Go hunting and use only pets and a CDEF with no specials. Then go a second time and use only your combat skills and no pets. See which one you get farther in. Let us know how it goes.
If you are not, then follow your own advice.
JodoKai wrote:
Seiryuu wrote:
Convince the devs to let pets have armor piercing, multiple damage types and do damage equivalent to another master elite spamming specials...and you have yourself a deal.Done. Pets have Dizzy attacks, pets have knockdown attacks, Disease attacks, stun attacks, ranged attacks, bleed attacks.
Now make it everytime every one of your pets attack, it costs you HAM, also make it so my gun has pretty much unlimited range and can shoot around walls. And when my gun attacks, let it have 10k HAM and the creature I'm attacking goes after my gun instead of me.
Do you really believe guns are just as useful as pets or are you just being argumentative?
All are good points and it helps to let all sides see a glimpse into the perceived strenghts of each other. Keep the tone civil and no ad hominim (sp) attacks and lets keep this discussion going. BTW it would be nice if those specials worked. For all the classes. I hear that carbineer got some fixes in patch 7
bout time too.-Indene-
Yes I was a Master CH for a long time, I was a novice when back in the days Novcies could pull Rancors, so I do have some idea of how pets work. CH's were never designed to be an elite COMBAT profession. Pet's supplement the the characters fighting skills.
For that example do this: Become a Master Squad Leader (an elite COMBAT profession) then go out in and fight with only your SL skills and a cdef. Now go out with your pets and see how much better you do. Now do this go Master Ranger, arguably a combat profession with a cdef and see how well you do. Now go Droid Engineer and fight with a cdef. DE wasn't designed for combat just like CH wasn't.
First let me say, I agree CH is a combat profession, the problem is the DEV's don't see it as, or want it to be one, so it isn't designed to be one.
Second, my point to all this is that Ranger, Squad Leader and Creature Handler all stink on their own for combat, but combined with combat skills they become useful.Well Ranger and CHbecome useful,SL isusless no matter what you do. To top it off to become master CH it only takes 106 Skill points, what are people doing with the other 144? You could master pistoleer and still have 52 Skill Points left (or riflemen or TKM, etc).
Now to get back to my orginal point, pets have SO much more versatility then a gun, I can't tell you the number of times I've been incaped and been saved from db by my pet. Talking as a Master Creature Handler who's tried a lot of other professions (I have had at least one skill tree filled in 21 professions and 10 of those I've mastered), I love CH, I love what the DEV's have done with CH. CH has a few minor bugs, with a pet not finding the path and auto storing sometimes, but you compare that to Squad Leader who has no purpose other than to role-playing and I can see the DEV's putting off fixing CH to work on other professions.
I have mastered Squad Leader and Ranger, and Droid Engineer which is why I've used them as examples