Creature Handler Archive
Thread: spilling the beans on CH in beta (NDA lifted)
Initially I was very pleased about this change - then I felt an awful sense of forboding...
One of the profs that goes best with MCH (checks sig) is MBH - due to sharing the prerequisite scout branch, thus saving Skill Points. With Bounty Hunters suddenly having the ability to use level 80 pets on PVP bounties, the odds will swing very heavily in the BH's favor.
Where I'm heading with this, is thatit will hurt jedi, and anything that hurts jedi attracts the attention of the developers. Judging by the 'balancing' that has gone on in the past, it will not just be this specific issue that gets addressed - rather the whole CH profession will be modified to make pets less effective.
Call me negative, but there is a history of this kind of sweeping change to address one issue - see the FS xpconversion ratio change implemented to fix the grenade grinders.
The fact that only lvl 80 chars can use the high lvl pets makes me think that it is being introduced specifically for the purpose of BH's and PVP - why such an unbalancing modification should be introduced is beyond me.
I have attempted to write this whole post without mentioning the word that all CH's fear, but know too well......but.......the nerf bat swingeth.
Message Edited by Denmha on 10-12-2005 12:10 PM
Your concerns are worthy of consideration denmha. We have all seen things throughout our time here to make us wonder about the future.
I know this is the CH boards and many will say "your crazy I'm mch/mbh." The truth is as for BH the CH part is rare, I have both a mch/mbh toon and a jedi toon. I have not seen a mch/mbh toon outside hunting jedi, on the server with my jedi ever. It's usually a mdoc/mcm or riflemantype template. In cities and pvp is another story since players can keep pets out and at the ready. But on the field even after timers are removed calling pets is a risk for a BH, they want to come in silently and quickly when the times right. They can't afford to wait and call pets in that time a young jedi or a fearful jedi can flee.
Could it cause a fotm for this template? Sure it might, Still from what I have experienced from a jedi point of view is I would rather have a MCH/MBH come after me "even with an 80 pet" than a few other type templates. Remember this template leaves the BH with less healing power and quick battles instead of those long drawn out ones we see is preferable lol. Truthfully your better off with 2 lvl 40's after this patch if hunting jedi imo, to confuse and raise damand go for a quick kill not a long draining one.
From a BH point of view, this is cool since states and resistences are changing also it brings a little balance since the higher regular missions will become much harder, at least my new pets can equal it out.
I also a MCH/MBH not haveing much luck hunting Jedi but getting closer.I would hope that adding the 10 extra levels to our creatures will "Hurt Jedi".Maybe then they will think twice about Ignoring my pets and coming strait for me.I don't think this will Unbalance anything in PVP,the only real advantage will be more health to the critter since when fighting most Jedi Damage is set to minimum.It may increase the odds of my Pet staying alive longer but if I am already Death Blowed I doubt the Jedi will have much trouble takeing down a level 80 pet.
Denmha wrote:
Initially I was very pleased about this change - then I felt an awful sense of forboding...
One of the profs that goes best with MCH (checks sig) is MBH - due to sharing the prerequisite scout branch, thus saving Skill Points. With Bounty Hunters suddenly having the ability to use level 80 pets on PVP bounties, the odds will swing very heavily in the BH's favor.
Where I'm heading with this, is thatit will hurt jedi, and anything that hurts jedi attracts the attention of the developers. Judging by the 'balancing' that has gone on in the past, it will not just be this specific issue that gets addressed - rather the whole CH profession will be modified to make pets less effective.
Call me negative, but there is a history of this kind of sweeping change to address one issue - see the FS xpconversion ratio change implemented to fix the grenade grinders.
The fact that only lvl 80 chars can use the high lvl pets makes me think that it is being introduced specifically for the purpose of BH's and PVP - icatwhy such an unbalancing modifion should be introduced is beyond me.
I have attempted to write this whole post without mentioning the word that all CH's fear, but know too well......but.......the nerf bat swingeth.
Message Edited by Denmha on 10-12-2005 12:10 PM
TWC_DiamondBack wrote:
tthegryphon wrote:
Well if some one must be CL 80 and MCH then I believe they should make BE give CL. I am Master BE Master CH and am only level 57. I am a CH because I need the protection of my pets while I sample DNA from very agressive creatures.I believe they need to rethink this.ALOT.
I dont. you can sell pets in deed form. we dont. you can have a vendor we dont
Crafters give up CL. BEs are crafters.
I am very happy with this. change. I always thought the way to get CL 80 pets was to be CL80 your self. You can count me in as pre-order!!!
a BioE can MAKE pets in deed form; we can't tame them, train them, and then redeed them. a CH can tame and train pets, but can't sell them in deed form. a BioE/CH doesn't get the magical ability to craft, tame, train, and sell a pet as a deed.
BioE's don't have vendors; artisans and merchants do. BioE has two pre-req's: scout and medic. both of these are 'combat' prerequisites.
as noted before: BioE DOES get CL... just a very low CL (CL17 at mBioE, CL57 or so with mBioE/mCombat). BioE is required for GCW base destruction (along with commando, squad leader, smuggler, and bounty hunter). BioE gets an armor cert. BioE uses a non-stacking unique resource for pet crafting: DNA. DNA can ONLY be sampled by a BioE, and can ONLY be sampled from living (and dangerous) creatures.
BioE's craft, but we aren't crafters. we see the inside of the cloning centers more often than the most inept PvP'rs. we aren't artisans: we can't sample, we don't get a vendor.
CL is already a gate to ingame content. making another gate (CL80) to CH content doesn't enrich the game, it depletes it. this isn't only a BioE problem; it is a problem for ANY mCH that isn't CL80 (mCH alone is a mere CL54).
lammergeier wrote:
TWC_DiamondBack wrote:
tthegryphon wrote:
Well if some one must be CL 80 and MCH then I believe they should make BE give CL. I am Master BE Master CH and am only level 57. I am a CH because I need the protection of my pets while I sample DNA from very agressive creatures.
I believe they need to rethink this.
ALOT.
I dont. you can sell pets in deed form. we dont. you can have a vendor we dont
Crafters give up CL. BEs are crafters.
I am very happy with this. change. I always thought the way to get CL 80 pets was to be CL80 your self. You can count me in as pre-order!!!
a BioE can MAKE pets in deed form; we can't tame them, train them, and then redeed them. a CH can tame and train pets, but can't sell them in deed form. a BioE/CH doesn't get the magical ability to craft, tame, train, and sell a pet as a deed.
BioE's don't have vendors; artisans and merchants do. BioE has two pre-req's: scout and medic. both of these are 'combat' prerequisites.
as noted before: BioE DOES get CL... just a very low CL (CL17 at mBioE, CL57 or so with mBioE/mCombat). BioE is required for GCW base destruction (along with commando, squad leader, smuggler, and bounty hunter). BioE gets an armor cert. BioE uses a non-stacking unique resource for pet crafting: DNA. DNA can ONLY be sampled by a BioE, and can ONLY be sampled from living (and dangerous) creatures.
BioE's craft, but we aren't crafters. we see the inside of the cloning centers more often than the most inept PvP'rs. we aren't artisans: we can't sample, we don't get a vendor.
CL is already a gate to ingame content. making another gate (CL80) to CH content doesn't enrich the game, it depletes it. this isn't only a BioE problem; it is a problem for ANY mCH that isn't CL80 (mCH alone is a mere CL54).
I agree with everything you said except the last paragraph. you shed ligth on some of my ignorance.
I still dont think LVL 80 pets should be allowed to non lvl 80 toons.
BEs are a special case and the best solution will probably be to raise their CL
Thanks for the informative and inteligent response
TWC_DiamondBack wrote:
I agree with everything you said except the last paragraph. you shed ligth on some of my ignorance.
I still dont think LVL 80 pets should be allowed to non lvl 80 toons.
BEs are a special case and the best solution will probably be to raise their CL
Thanks for the informative and inteligent response
Portios - MCH - Flurry
I wish everyone was as open to constructive debate as you are. the last paragraph, specifically concerning CL as a gate to content, has been argued for and against since it was introduced in the CURB (the best description of it I've seen so far: "it's like stapling bacon to a television."). I'm sure the arguments will continue.
BioE IS a special case... and it has always been problematic. when the game was launched, BioE's couldn't use factories... at all. BioE's STILL require 'fish' as a resource, and even with changes to the yield from fishing, the problem hasn't been resolved. BioE tailor tissues still have problems. in short, BioE has a heap of issues that weren't addressed with the CURB, and more issues that were caused by the CURB. CL is only ONE of the problems that needs a resolution.
but the CL problem isn't limited to BioE. if a CL80 pet is overpowered for a CL54 toon, then a CL70 pet is also overpowered... as is a CL55 pet. the answer for the last two-plus years hasn't been 'reduce the CL of the pet to match the CL of the toon (not that toon CL was ever accurately calculated or displayed before the CURB)', and I don't think that's the answer now.
WEAPONS are limited to CL54... I have yet to see a lightsaber, a rifle, a sword/axe, or any other weapon that requires MORE than a single elite mastery's CL of 54.. in THEORY, a CL80 toon should be an even match for a CL80 pet... we've all seen that this isn't the case (if only because a CL80 toon has a player controlling them, while a CL80 pet or mob is driven by AI). do we need a weapon rebalance, with certs ranging from CL1 to CL80, rather than CL1 to CL54?
where do we draw the line? CL70 isn't overpowered for a CL54 toon, but CL80 is?
mCH doesn't exist in a vacuum, to be sure. a mCH has the skill points left over to master another combat profession and increase their CL to 80, but the OPTION to buy more combat skills shouldn't be a REQUIREMENT.
this isn't a BioE problem (though it DOES affect BioE's). this is a problem that highlights the foibles and inadequacies of the CL system, and it is a problem for any toon that doesn't sport a shiny CL80 next to their name.
tthegryphon wrote:
Well if some one must be CL 80 and MCH then I believe they should make BE give CL. I am Master BE Master CH and am only level 57. I am a CH because I need the protection of my pets while I sample DNA from very agressive creatures.
I believe they need to rethink this.
ALOT.
I dont. you can sell pets in deed form. we dont. you can have a vendor we dont
Crafters give up CL. BEs are crafters.
Jak_Herer wrote:
I am not a BE but thought I would ask this anyway on their behalf - Will BEs now be able to make CL80 BE pets - If they cant and are still restricted to level 70 pets I can see the manufacture and sale of BE pets dropping significantly as all MCHs will be after their level 72-80 pets rather than the CL70 max that a BE could make for them.
I am assuming we will still be able to make lvl 80's. I have made over lvl 80 with current dna so i see no reason i will not be able to make lvl 80's.but be prepared to pay pay and pay if you want them since i as a MCH will not be able to use them myself since my cl is only lvl 58 my prices will not be cheap.
Flurry
Morarrana
Master Be
Master CH
M&M sales corellia 804 -5116 recently moved will change on here soon but for now there is a sign where my vendor used to be with the new location
Spazzers wrote:
Okay, again, if I'm a master CH but not CL80 can I call two CL40 animals?
From what I have seen if you are not a level 80 toon you can not call or tame a level 80 animal. I could be wrong I would think the answer would be no could not call 2 level 40s if our toon is not level 80
You're probably right since the combination is based on your max pet level certification. The only people who truly benefit from the pet CL increase are those that are already high level combatants such as MBH/MCH,who of courseneed a CL80 pet...not.
I would argue it is the lower level hybrids, such as resourcers and bio-eng, and took up MCH for protection, who would benefit more from the increase. To me, it just provides one more reason to give up anything that is not combat oriented. A very clear indication of where this game is headed. It won't be long before a loot system is implemented that replaces or compliments the crafted items. Doctors will become more and more like magicians by healing and buffing with nothing more than a shake of the hand.
Good or bad, this definitely is not the game I bought two years ago.
TheLoneBowler wrote:
Ok they just lifted the NDA so I can talk!
CH is getting some love in the expansion-here are some highlights I will add more later-
-CHs will be able to tame up to level 80. requirements are Master CH, level 80 combat level, and undisclosed items or skills that you will get that will increase your taming by levels of 2 until you get to 80. All of the creatures on Mustafar 80 and below are reported to spawn babies. Babies 71 and above are supposed to be really rare.
-AI has been significantly changed. Pets and NPCs will now use specials in combat. NPCs will follow profession specific ability rulesets (TK, Jedi, Etc)
-In my testing pets are much stronger. My level 67 was able to solo level 65-69 with no help.
I will get more info as soon as I can.
Message Edited by TheLoneBowler on 10-10-2005 04:08 PM
So basically a worthless bone since my Master Creature Handler is not CL 80 and is not going to get to CL80. ( She's also Master Scout and Master Bio Engineer. )
Well that's my 3rd favorite character I now have no reason to buy this expansion for ( coupled with no content for my first two favorites either)