Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Truce
Aakhperkare wrote:We have been waiting and working with the devs for months. We have held up our part of the deal...
I'm going to take this out of context for a second, then I'll come around and agree with you somewhat.
What deal do we have with the Devs? Where in the EULA does it say the Devs will cater to all the CH Community's demands on a certain timetable? If you want to get a lawyer and negotiate a new license agreement for yourself with SOE/LucasArts that includes this, let me know when you're successful and give the rest of us the name of the lawyer so we can get the same!
That said, I think what was intended in the above quote was an implication of good faith effort and I agree. The CH Community has provided lots of good input to the Devs and the communication has been less than expected (and expectations is the key as I think some of us have much higher expectations than others).
As we all know, Thunderheart got a promotion and is doing what the often unseen since Beta Q-3PO was doing. I don't think we can stomp our feet and expect Thunderheart to jump, particularly now!
The Correspondant program was created to help with the communication gap and the recent Correspondant gathering in Austin was a first step to fixing some of the initial shortcomings. Vert and other Correspondants have alluded to good things coming and therefore I suggest continued patience -- there isn't much else we can do but sit here in this forum and whine (and get suspended/banned when it gets out of hand), or quit.
SkyPreacher1 wrote:Actually we can do SOE some very real harm.How? By simply writing out our experience in SWG and sending it to every gaming magazine. IF certain people in this game were to write their horror stories of SOE non-customer service, of fixes that were bugs, of nerfs and general dissatisfaction with this product, of the hundreds maybe thousands of old players leaving the game because of SOE incompetence, then we are no longer the 90 lb weakling.
Interesting theory, but I will believe it when I see it. SWG isn't the first game or software product to have a dissatisfied customer. Just by the look of this thread, there are people that are dissatisfied and those that aren't quite there yet.
For this technique to be effective, you would have to come off as credible and not just an isolated problem case. Magazines, particularly gaming magazines, are published using advertising revenue from the same game companies you want to bash.
If a magazine were to publish anything (if they don't just ignore you), chances are they would give SOE/Lucas an opportunity to comment as well. SOE/Lucas would probably point out that they have a great relationship with the community and have recently revamped the game against their original intent to keep Jedi rare based on communication with the community.
But, we choose to try and make the game better by initiating some dialogue with this Dev team and this PR man TH. I am tired of noobs who come here and have no idea how much crap we have waded through to get to this point. Of how TH came into this forum and laughed in our faces, called us names and left, never to return.
I hope you aren't referring to me as a "noob" as you seem to be responding to comments from my earlier post. I was a beta tester so let's not go there.
So, you want to have a dialogue with the Dev Team? Let me introduce you to the CH Correspondant, Vert. Vert has volunteered to represent the CH Community and bring our issues to the Devs.
There must be an impression that Vert isn't communicating with the Devs, or is just "doing it wrong" as I know most people if not everyone know Vert is the CH Correspondant. As we've heard from other Correspondants that went to the gathering in Austin, Vert asked some pretty pointed questions of the Devs so I don't think there can be any doubt about Vert representing us. We live in a "gotta have it now" society, but I think this is one case where we just are *not* going to get all the answers to all of our issues immediately -- the Devs have bigger issues.
Tstorm do you realize that SOE said the revamp was to occur 8 months ago? You have been here awhile you're not a newb by any means according to your registery date. Are you going to always believe the same people who tell you untruths?
You have to understand that virtually every person posting in this thread does not want every scrap of details about everything now. Trayson helped me to organize my thoughts. All I want to know is that:
A) the combat revamp is going to happen (sooner rather than later)
B) the combat revamp nerfs professions other than CH
C) no combat changes will happen to CH itself, other than the way the combat changes will affect EVERY PROFESSION as a whole.
With all this in mind I am very bitter towards red names. Thunderheart took his personal time to come in recently and congratulate someone for a rare tame. When asked where the apology was he suddenly bolted. He even alluded to lurking this forum. He does not care for peace. RuneSabre started this lie about the Combat Revamp. TH and JustG kept alluding to it. Haden denied it ever existed in gameinformer. Yes people went to the magazines already. But you know there needs to be a part two follow up asking where this publish came from that never existed. It suddenly appeared from thin air.
Dazzle me with brilliance but you will not baffle me with bantha poodoo. I am too smart for that.
To push this baby home, we have been told as you pointed out many things. What sticks out are the Correspondents saw a skeleton. A nice looking skeleton too, it seems. May have been missing a few fingers to make it complete, but for sure it was missing any telling signs of whether this skeleton is a prince or a pauper. If anyone cannot follow that analogy. Then try this you are handed a seed. The seed looks pretty you know when you plant it it will either be stinkweed or the msot rare and beautiful flower you have ever seen. But the seed is still unknown. What it will grow into is unknown. And definitely if one evaluates SOE's paster performance without blinders; one will easily see the reason many of us suspect we are being handed stinkweed.
Message Edited by Pluto9Moon on 09-06-2004 10:11 PM
Tstorm wrote:
If those currently in "truce" decide to go back to "war" I urge you to consider what your war actually consists of -- posts and conduct that often violates the Forum Policies and is a recipe for getting yourself suspended/banned. A better way to address issues is to work with the Devs and Correspondants in a constructive way and put away the hostility.
Um right, and what else are they gonna do? take away my birthday?
Some of us know ways around those bans (/knudge, /wink), not to mention a myrad of non official boards that are acutally more civil with out the SOE moderation.
They can ban me from these boards all they want, but they cannot silence me. If they had any brains they would ask people like sky and Pluto to help.
Why because these people have shown a true passion for the game and a desire to see it live up to it's potential. These are the kind of people that will strive to improve things, not the fanboi yes men.
Pluto9Moon wrote:Tstorm do you realize that SOE said the revamp was to occur 8 months ago? You have been here awhile you're not a newb by any means according to your registery date. Are you going to always believe the same people who tell you untruths?
I realize that software development is a moving target and nothing is solid until release day. I think the expectation that everything the Devs say is written in stone for all time is a bit unrealistic.
A year ago, I doubt the Devs thought that hologrinding would being and tear the game apart to the point where two publishes would have to be dedicated to fixing it. Plans change to address changing circumstances.
Pluto9Moon wrote:You have to understand that virtually every person posting in this thread does not want every scrap of details about everything now. Trayson helped me to organize my thoughts. All I want to know is that:
A) the combat revamp is going to happen (sooner rather than later)
B) the combat revamp nerfs professions other than CH
C) no combat changes will happen to CH itself, other than the way the combat changes will affect EVERY PROFESSION as a whole.
This is a fair inquiry, but I have a feeling the answer to all this is "we aren't sure yet". I would much rather have the Devs *not* answer these questions so early into the development of the combat revamp and have to retract it later (and get the masses up in arms over it).
From what I gather, the combat revamp is still very much in *draft* format. I find it encouraging that the Devs engaged the Correspondants to help remove the sharp edges from it before it gets presented to the general player population and I have faith that Vert is representing our interests.
Pluto9Moon wrote:With all this in mind I am very bitter towards red names.
Really? I hadn't noticed!
/poke
Pluto9Moon wrote:Thunderheart took his personal time to come in recently and congratulate someone for a rare tame. When asked where the apology was he suddenly bolted. He even alluded to lurking this forum. He does not care for peace.
I think you're reading too much into this. If I were taking my "off duty" time to browse forums and participate, I would probably avoid posts that require 50 meetings, post content approval, etc.
I don't understand the continuing desire for an apology from Thunderheart. The "pokemon" comment was what -- 6 months ago? I remember shaking my head at that comment back then, but I took it as more of a foot in mouth moment instead of a insult intended to alienate the CH community.
As for "peace", I wasn't aware there was a war. SOE is under no obligation to lift a finger for the CH community. SOE does have a vested interest in working with the community and improving the game -- I see no reason to argue that SOE hasn't been improving the game.
Pluto9Moon wrote:RuneSabre started this lie about the Combat Revamp. TH and JustG kept alluding to it. Haden denied it ever existed in gameinformer. Yes people went to the magazines already. But you know there needs to be a part two follow up asking where this publish came from that never existed. It suddenly appeared from thin air.
Dazzle me with brilliance but you will not baffle me with bantha poodoo. I am too smart for that.
35 years ago, Stanley Kubrick promised to me that we would have a base on the moon in 2001 and that an alien artifact that was a metaphor for God would be discovered there. I'm still ticked that this didn't happen.
As I said above, software development is very fluid until code is released. Drudging up every past promise -- implied, explicit, or imagined does nothing to change the present and future. I suggest we put the past behind us and focus on the present and future, or we will just give reason for the Devs to communicate even less with us about potential future directions for fear of being held to it for years to come.
Smugglers were promised a revamp, but as you may have seen in the Dev Tracker, that revamp was put off. There has been a lot of good discussion, however, and Smugglers will get some loving at some point. Should CH's come before that? How would you prioritize the finite resources for a game like this and where would CH wants fit into that?
One of my favorite jokes I use with friends in game (much to their dismay as the joke became old about a week after I started with it) is in regards to Thunderheart's comment that the "Imperial Hat issue" was his "top" priority several months ago. Whether he was serious with the comment or just joking isn't important, but I have twisted fun in asking friends where the "Imperial Hat issue" is in the latest publish notes.
People misspeak and do change their priorities over time and it is usually for the greater good.
Pluto9Moon wrote:To push this baby home, we have been told as you pointed out many things. What sticks out are the Correspondents saw a skeleton. A nice looking skeleton too, it seems. May have been missing a few fingers to make it complete, but for sure it was missing any telling signs of whether this skeleton is a prince or a pauper. If anyone cannot follow that analogy. Then try this you are handed a seed. The seed looks pretty you know when you plant it it will either be stinkweed or the msot rare and beautiful flower you have ever seen. But the seed is still unknown. What it will grow into is unknown. And definitely if one evaluates SOE's paster performance without blinders; one will easily see the reason many of us suspect we are being handed stinkweed.
I am not in the "many of us suspect we are being handed stinkweed" boat and I suspect the stinkweed believers are actually in the minority and not the majority. It is a subjective argument, but if I were to believe that nothing good will become of anything SOE does, why would I bother playing anymore (and paying $15/month)?
Using your seed analogy, I have to assume that the seed being planted will be a beautiful flower. The Devs have planted the seed, the Correspondants have seen the sprout, and we'll see it once it's a little further along in growth. If it's stinkweed, why even bother planting and watering it to begin with?
Contrary to how I may appear, I am not best friends with the Devs. I have my complaints about SOE's errors, missteps, and naive assumptions and I do from time to time chat about it with friends privately. In a community such as this, however, that type of negativity does nothing to improve the situation and only forces people to avoid these forums. Let's put the past in the past and see where the future brings us.
Tstorm wrote:
I realize that software development is a moving target and nothing is solid until release day. I think the expectation that everything the Devs say is written in stone for all time is a bit unrealistic.
While I understand the perils of software development, the issue is that the devs DID promise a combat revamp/rebalance/whatever all the way back in December. They then proceeded to answer just about every issue the players had with the game with "it's in the rebalance." This went on for several months. TH also made several rumblings as time went on to the effect that the balance was imminent.
I think most of us took that to mean that they were working on it for all that time, including actually writing and testing code. Considering all of the different statements by the devs over those months, I don't feel that's an invalid assumption, or that I was 'reading too much into what they said.'
Then all of a sudden we are told that there is essentially NOTHING done, and the rebalance/revamp/w-t-f is now postponed - for all intents and purposes - indefinitely. Eight months and apparently the rebalance/snafu/fubar never got beyond coming up with a mission statement!
Except of course, for the creature rebalance, hanging all of us CH's out to dry. Pluto, SkyPreacher,and many others, including myself, have every right to be angry and mistrustful of the devs for that.
Message Edited by Rishathra on 09-07-2004 09:51 AM
Rishathra wrote:Pluto, SkyPreacher, and many others, including myself, have every right to be angry and mistrustful of the devs for that.
Ok, be angry and mistrustful of the Devs. What have you accomplished with that though?
I realize I will probably never get through to the most disgruntled folks out there, but maybe it'll get some of you thinking a bit. All this whining, complaining, and ranting about the the past does nothing to make things better.
Tstorm wrote:
Ok, be angry and mistrustful of the Devs. What have you accomplished with that though?
I realize I will probably never get through to the most disgruntled folks out there, but maybe it'll get some of you thinking a bit. All this whining, complaining, and ranting about the the past does nothing to make things better.
Aakhperkare wrote:
Tstorm wrote:
Ok, be angry and mistrustful of the Devs. What have you accomplished with that though?
I realize I will probably never get through to the most disgruntled folks out there, but maybe it'll get some of you thinking a bit. All this whining, complaining, and ranting about the the past does nothing to make things better.And being helpful, faithful, and constructive towards the devs hasn't made things better for anyone either. So what does it matter?...
It matters because taking your frustration to these forums and testing the limits of the Forum Policies has a tendency of getting players suspended/banned.
That said, there is no wrong in having an opinion even if it is anti-SOE. If your critisism isn't constructive, however, you are a part of the problem not the solution.
I can be critical of SOE by saying the communication from the Devs lately has been poor and it needs improve. Maybe an effort should be made to put aside a certain amount of time per day to address different issues. With that, I have offered critisism and a suggested solution.
If I am critical by saying the Devs' communication is pathetic, better communication was promised months ago and why does what little communication done need to include an insult to CH's, that is more of an attack and not constructive critisism.
Take it for what you will though. If you wish to continue shouting into the wind go for it, but when you cross the line enough to get the attention of the forum moderators, you will only have yourself to blame when you are suspended and/or banned.
Aakhperkare wrote:No, it doesn't matter. If I get banned, I get banned. I could really care less.
Interesting attitude and one I don't think I will never understand. Personally, if I was so disgusted with things that I needed to do things to get banned in an effort to get attention, I would hang up my backpack and find a better way to relax after a hard day at work.
Aakhperkare wrote:These developers don't deserve people being nice to them. By suggesting everyone just forget the past you are being un-constructive yourself, because the past will just continue to repeat itself if everyone just forgets these developer's past transgressions.
I'm curious what you would like to see then. Everyone chanting "Down with the Devs!"?
I'm not saying you don't have cause to be frustrated, but you could find a more productive way then declaring "war" on the Devs as has been suggested in other messages in this thread.
Aakhperkare wrote:Besides, since when were you the unofficial board admin? Don't worry about how we conduct ourselves, just worry about yourself...
I won't respond directly to personal attacks, sorry. Feel free to click on the "Report Abuse to a Moderator" link though if you feel my posts are out of line with the Forum Policies.
Please consider though that just because I don't agree with someone's opinion doesn't mean I am an "unofficial board admin" though!