Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Pets are good in PVP now??! against what? artisans?
lycanthropy wrote:
Jedialex04 wrote:
i dont think there meant for pvp, just pve, they are a good for tanking when u are grinding
i still don't see how people can just write CH off as being useless, i did a test with two pets against a jedi lvl80 not me attacking just him against two pets and had i helped them he would have easily been dead, sense my pets alone damaged him quite a bit. the only thing that saved him was his heal ability.pets were both BE, but health not past 7000.
once specials are corrected i think we will see more success at pvp with pets.
Here's how:
If the Jedi, or any other Level 80 elite combat professional, has any PvP experience *at all*, he is going to ignore the pets completely and kill the CH ... then either deal with the pets or run away. This is not only just as true now as it was 3 months ago, it's *more* true because now he doesn't even have to worry about the pet hitting with Specials.
Can you win in PvP against a Level 65 or against some eBay Jed-eye who doesn't have a clue how to run his character? Sure. That's not the standard people are measuring against when asking when the uselessness of CH in PvP will be remedied, and it never was.
not to keep beating this horse, but I saw an MCH fight a jedi knight last night, I assume it was a bounty. The MCH had two pets on the jedi, one of which I found out was a CL0 pet (should be rated at 50), and he kept him occupied for quite a while, scoring some KDs, and dealing good damage from both the pets and his rifle. In the end the jedi won, but he had to heal about 8 times and the fight lasted about 6 minutes, including the pets. Now maybe the CH lost, but if this was not a bounty and just regular PvP and you threw one more combatant in the mix that jedi would have been toast. So although not the "uber" PvP prof, I think we will be able to contribute effectively in PvP.
I know the pets were not the norm and yeah the jedi might just suck, but we're not talking about the leetest of leet profs now are we.
Redondo wrote:
Thats the thing though, you are not going to dominate in solo PvP or even in small groups. If you are in a full group your opponents first have to figure out who the CH is all the while dealing with your pets and your group mates. Its not an I win button, but it is effective.I have been thinking back to the old days of CH in the summer and fall of 2003 when a lot of pets were used in PvE and PvP and the situation was similar. You'd be overt in the SP and two grauls would come out of nowhere along with a group of 7 or 8 people and you had to find the CH or deal with the pets. It wasnt easy then. Unless people are prepared and or very experienced they tend to deal with immediate threats rather than an overall strategy. Things have definitely changed now, and I certainly need to do some testing in PvP with my pets, but I wouldn't go writing them off in PvP yet. Once specials are working again that will add even more flavor to the mix.
lol, 'dominate' is not even a remote dream, but as a Level 80 combat character I'd like to have a snowball's chance in Hades when I encounter another 80, and the bottom line is, if he knows what he's doing, I don't. We not only didn't improve in this 'Balance' (even they don't have the temerity to use that word now), we took a step back with everything they broke.
Redondo wrote:
KzinKiller wrote:
Redondo wrote:
Thats the thing though, you are not going to dominate in solo PvP or even in small groups. If you are in a full group your opponents first have to figure out who the CH is all the while dealing with your pets and your group mates. Its not an I win button, but it is effective.I have been thinking back to the old days of CH in the summer and fall of 2003 when a lot of pets were used in PvE and PvP and the situation was similar. You'd be overt in the SP and two grauls would come out of nowhere along with a group of 7 or 8 people and you had to find the CH or deal with the pets. It wasnt easy then. Unless people are prepared and or very experienced they tend to deal with immediate threats rather than an overall strategy. Things have definitely changed now, and I certainly need to do some testing in PvP with my pets, but I wouldn't go writing them off in PvP yet. Once specials are working again that will add even more flavor to the mix.
lol, 'dominate' is not even a remote dream, but as a Level 80 combat character I'd like to have a snowball's chance in Hades when I encounter another 80, and the bottom line is, if he knows what he's doing, I don't. We not only didn't improve in this 'Balance' (even they don't have the temerity to use that word now), we took a step back with everything they broke.
well if you are going compare all PvP to one vs. one then yes you will probably not be that effective. Maybe we are relegated to being a support class in PvP, but that is fine with me. What I want to do is enter into a battle and have my pets do some fighting and be effective. I like to PvP, I dont duel often, I prefer to fight in a group or with my guild. Since I have chosen to be a CH/MCM rather than pick up a weapon class I am fine with a support role. I havent done any PvP post CU but from what I read and hear from others is that this game is no longer about being solo. I think when you look at the contribution CH can make in PvP added to whatever skills your group has then you have an effective profession. Granted things are broken now and need to be fixed, so we will just have to wait on that.I dont see where any of this is different from the past, although the balance of power has shifted among the professions, each had their own problems. I was a long time MHS/MD and did poorly in PvP solo against ranged and defense stackers, even with my heals and high damage output, so I didnt run around overt alone too often. Back in the fall of '03 I was attacked by two grauls from a MCH near the Imp outpost in Bestine when I was a BH. Since he was solo I killed him and then worked on his pets. But a week later I saw a small group of 4 rebels with 3 grauls take down a group of 8 Imperials with 2 AT-STs. Granted this was back when CH was better, but so were ATSTs.So basically, if you want to be the best PvP'er out there and dominate one on one, then I would say CH is not the best prof to do that with. But as a support role in PvP, where everyone has a job to do, I think it will do fine, and I have seen it. This time in the CU is a different time, and it is really a different game now, that means not looking at it the same we always did in the past.
It would be very nice if you could burn that 'dominate' strawman once and for all, because I'm getting tired of pointing out how that is not remotely what I'm talking about.
What I'd like to do, and what the goal of any real 'balancing' of professions should be (and has always been CLAIMED to be the goal by the devs in public pronouncements) is to travel from A to B as an overt Special Forces faction member and have a chance of surviving an encounter with another experienced PvP'er of the opposite faction. Right now, my only chance of surviving a 1-on-1 encounter with someone of equal combat level is (a) if he's incompetent or (b) if he's another CH! That's not balance, that's the same frelled-up system we've had for two years of dev promises that it would be 'fixed in the balance,' ... only worse, since the tiny benefit of state-attacks that carefully selected pets could once give you has been broken.
I'm not looking for 'dominate' ... I'm looking for 'competently implemented code' ... an even more elusive dream, obviously.
As much as I loved ch, I had to give it up for lack of support. I see my once mighty TMB down to a whopping 5k something ham. I know before the CU, I could bring out two BE pets that would actually save my hide in PVP. Now? I just dont feel it. I have two decent pets. Both are pre CU BE rancors that have 12,000 health, and hit for around 610-640.
There are people who will scream "but you will get another attack, and you can have a tank.' you know, that is true, it really it. But, here is where it pays off, we get NO other abilities, lets add up these numbers:
before the change:
MCH/Master rifleman/3/01/4 BH (before the cu, I was MCH/MR/MS/ 0/0/3/0 Ranger. Took BH for the LLC, added the investigation line to mess around)
ranged defense: 153
general ranged speed 32
Melee defense +55
general ranged accuracy 135