Creature Handler Archive
Thread: NEW CH Nerf on TC
Page 4 of 4
Starmage
Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:47 am
#40
I'm going to test this out. If I group to get the bigger payout, then ungroup just before I finish the mission maybe I can fool the payout. I play on TC and Have a lvl 70 gurreck. Wish me luck, Journey Ominorei
Pluto9Moon
Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:47 am
#41
Tray do you know if pets get their cut of the mission? This is a two-part issue.
OK so the difficulty levels do indeed raise but how is the pay out working?
Answer?? I will tell you as soon as I can get patched.
I did play into your inference but that is more my fault than yours. The thing that I would be most angry at you about is how you make light of the situation. I even reference the AT ST grouping mechanism. Which I do believe needs to be stopped. If they cannot help in PvE they should not be a factor in Difficulty Levels of missions.
The only way for a CH to get higher paying missions is to group their pets.
Right or wrong??
Right.
A BH simply switches weapons.
Yes.
CH are forced to share money with their weapons.
Yes.
BH are not.
Yes.
OMG. The system is so balanced(sarcasm). It is the system you advocated. Your inference aside the system still is unbalanced. CH is gripping to not fall off the scales. But you advocated it.
Yet all this is no problem to you. It is for the people who play CH.
OK so the difficulty levels do indeed raise but how is the pay out working?
Answer?? I will tell you as soon as I can get patched.
I did play into your inference but that is more my fault than yours. The thing that I would be most angry at you about is how you make light of the situation. I even reference the AT ST grouping mechanism. Which I do believe needs to be stopped. If they cannot help in PvE they should not be a factor in Difficulty Levels of missions.
The only way for a CH to get higher paying missions is to group their pets.
Right or wrong??
Right.
A BH simply switches weapons.
Yes.
CH are forced to share money with their weapons.
Yes.
BH are not.
Yes.
OMG. The system is so balanced(sarcasm). It is the system you advocated. Your inference aside the system still is unbalanced. CH is gripping to not fall off the scales. But you advocated it.
Yet all this is no problem to you. It is for the people who play CH.
Pluto9Moon
Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:54 am
#42
Bagel,
What you seem to not understand, not every CH is BE as well. Many of us do the missions simply because of the payout. Now 50% of my payout will go to my pets bank account.
CH has had money issues for near a year now and 50-75% of our mission payouts was just ripped from our midst. If your rich, fine. That does not mean this is not a problem for the rest of us. It does not mean we are not using our heads.
What you seem to not understand, not every CH is BE as well. Many of us do the missions simply because of the payout. Now 50% of my payout will go to my pets bank account.
CH has had money issues for near a year now and 50-75% of our mission payouts was just ripped from our midst. If your rich, fine. That does not mean this is not a problem for the rest of us. It does not mean we are not using our heads.
Pluto9Moon
Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:00 pm
#43
Bagel,
It seems you have what is commonly referred to as the wrong end of the stick. At this time I currently draw level 17 missions without my pets grouped. Even if I have 3 pets out the mission level does not change. They must be members of my group to raise my mission levels.
With the current bug on TC if I group 3 pets for a 24K mission I only receive 6K. If I only recieve 6K with the bug I am better off taking the 7-8 missions with pets ungrouped. They are easier and less life threatening. Huurton pups die easy.
I hope this clarifies things for you.
It seems you have what is commonly referred to as the wrong end of the stick. At this time I currently draw level 17 missions without my pets grouped. Even if I have 3 pets out the mission level does not change. They must be members of my group to raise my mission levels.
With the current bug on TC if I group 3 pets for a 24K mission I only receive 6K. If I only recieve 6K with the bug I am better off taking the 7-8 missions with pets ungrouped. They are easier and less life threatening. Huurton pups die easy.
I hope this clarifies things for you.
DarkBagel
Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:38 pm
#44
You mention you need your pets in the group to get missions and that the sharing with the pet is a bug.
The test server is there to find these bugs and fix them before they become live. Hopefully it'll be fixed
before it comes live. If not, it will be fixed shortly.
The test server is there to find these bugs and fix them before they become live. Hopefully it'll be fixed
before it comes live. If not, it will be fixed shortly.
Whats wrong with grouping with other people? Make friends. Dont do everything solo. If you absolutely must
go it alone, then group with your alt and you'll get both shares of the money. Maybe this will even make it
easier to sell our pets. When this goes live and everyone cant take multiple 25-30k missions the economy
go it alone, then group with your alt and you'll get both shares of the money. Maybe this will even make it
easier to sell our pets. When this goes live and everyone cant take multiple 25-30k missions the economy
will be hurt. We dont know why the administration decided to do this but they have their reasons and contrary
to what some believe, the producers and the developers dont like around at night thinking 'How can i downgrade
the players tommorow...'
And even if they do downgrade us from time to time, it stands to reason that you haveto have an upgrade in order
to have a downgrade. You can only go down so far before you have to come back up. We've had nerfs before, we'll
have more nerfs in the future. I fail to see how this one stands out above any others.
How are we going to make money? Lets supply the crafters. Part of being a CH is being a scout. Lets use it to
our advantage and harvest all the cool meat, bones, and hide that sell for 100cpu from time to time. Sometimes
I'll make 100k with a single buff collecting meat or hide when its in high demand. Just setup a macro that will
loot and harvest at the touch of a button. It cant get any easier than that.
Hopefully prices will finally fall as nobody can afford the high prices. When they stop buying, the vendors will have to
reduce their prices if they want to sell anything. In the long run this could be good. If anything, it should make it a more
social game than it is now. Obiwan didnt rescue leia by himself. He didnt take just luke.
He got a group togather to rescue the princess. When luke went to rescue han from Jabba, he didnt go by himself.
He got a group togather to rescue the princess. When luke went to rescue han from Jabba, he didnt go by himself.
This is also just the first phase of the new combat system. A prelude you might say.
When the combat change comes in place, just look at what we'll be facing. Combat as we know it will cease to exist.
The armorsmiths will be impacted as reliance on composite armor will be vastly different. Doctors will be impacted in
When the combat change comes in place, just look at what we'll be facing. Combat as we know it will cease to exist.
The armorsmiths will be impacted as reliance on composite armor will be vastly different. Doctors will be impacted in
the buff department. Melee and marksman will be impacted substantially. Us? We'll still have our pets. After the combat
revamp, our guild is going to get an upgrade. Lets wait and see what that nice upgrade will bring us. We'll have a new stuff
and for those who feel so inclined, new things to complain about. :-)
I may have hold of the wrong side of the stick, but the change is inevitable. It's going to happen whether we like it or not and
while the pain is inevitable, the misery is OPTIONAL.
The future is so bright, my kaadu has to wear shades. 
Pluto9Moon
Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:21 pm
#45
DarkBagel wrote:
You mention you need your pets in the group to get missions and that the sharing with the pet is a bug. The test server is there to find these bugs and fix them before they become live. Hopefully it'll be fixed before it comes live. If not, it will be fixed shortly.
Few CH are complaining about the fix. JFreeman will find it. He is mightier than the Force.
Whats wrong with grouping with other people? Make friends. Dont do everything solo. If you absolutely must go it alone, then group with your alt and you'll get both shares of the money. Maybe this will even make it easier to sell our pets. When this goes live and everyone cant take multiple 25-30k missions the economy will be hurt. We dont know why the administration decided to do this but they have their reasons and contrary to what some believe, the producers and the developers dont like around at night thinking 'How can i downgrade the players tommorow...'
I don't think you have been around long. "Our" pets do not sell. Would you buy a CDEF for 10K? No one wants these useless pets. BE out-sell CH pets 99.9:.1 there is no market there. Count on this market and go hungry. Again, CH is not the one complaining about the nerf, just the bugs that were inadvertent. Pets increasing levels and splitting payouts. It seems the pets still increase the levels, now we await the fix for payouts.
And even if they do downgrade us from time to time, it stands to reason that you haveto have an upgrade in order to have a downgrade. You can only go down so far before you have to come back up. We've had nerfs before, we'll have more nerfs in the future. I fail to see how this one stands out above any others.
I usually do not question how long someone has been a CH but we have had 2 major nerfs (if you count the CH revamp and the Creature Combat Upgrade as one). This one as major as the others? Nope. But it is comprehensive. Again, it is reported to us that this is merely a bug and not a nerf. When we have no market already. As an elite with only CH it takes us infinite times longer to make good money. We cannot buff our pets and store them, although other elite players can BUFF then ZONE. So if we want to be merely CH; much like a BH can rule PvE as just a BH; we are reduced to non-buffed pets on Adventure planets. When we have non-buffed pets we have to have multiples. Everyone else will simply retreat to doing Sharnaff missions. Buffed and armored and still not taking damage. CH must have a pet grouped to even pull a Sharnaff mission.
How are we going to make money? Lets supply the crafters. Part of being a CH is being a scout. Lets use it to our advantage and harvest all the cool meat, bones, and hide that sell for 100cpu from time to time. Sometimes I'll make 100k with a single buff collecting meat or hide when its in high demand. Just setup a macro that will loot and harvest at the touch of a button. It cant get any easier than that.
UM. Hey you got a plan. A 36K mission which few will get unless grouped will now pay out 3.6K with 10 to the group. This means the economy just took a 90% nosedive. 2-3 weeks after this goes live there will not be 100cpu resources. Your plan is flawed.
Hopefully prices will finally fall as nobody can afford the high prices. When they stop buying, the vendors will have to reduce their prices if they want to sell anything. In the long run this could be good. If anything, it should make it a more social game than it is now. Obiwan didnt rescue leia by himself. He didnt take just luke.He got a group togather to rescue the princess. When luke went to rescue han from Jabba, he didnt go by himself.
Obiwan's mission wasn't to rescue Leia. It was to fulfill his destiny. Only by dying would it help Luke follow his chosen path. Leia, Chewy and the droids got caught. Even Luke got caught and he got lucky he beat the rancor.
This is also just the first phase of the new combat system. A prelude you might say.
When the combat change comes in place, just look at what we'll be facing. Combat as we know it will cease to exist.
As I found out this was not a prelude. At least not an advertised one. Everyone is up in arms about this move. It was a stealth nerf. You can argue it was an exploit of an unintentional bug. The fact is that any bug that lasts as long as this in a game will be used fully by the players. KEI comes to mind from EverQuest. Chanters could give it to everyone for over a year. It made Chanters the wealthiest people in the game. I choose to give it for free on Vazaelle and made many enemies doing so. If I could harvest enough resources I would kill the current economy.
The armorsmiths will be impacted as reliance on composite armor will be vastly different. Doctors will be impacted in the buff department. Melee and marksman will be impacted substantially. Us? We'll still have our pets. After the combat revamp, our guild is going to get an upgrade. Lets wait and see what that nice upgrade will bring us. We'll have a new stuff
and for those who feel so inclined, new things to complain about. :-)
My job isn't to argue what does or does not benefit the other classes. I get to the guts of the matter about what is happening to CH. The rest of the universe is none of my concern except as to whether it remains balanced with CH by Skill Point usage. I am so glad your guild is getting its very own upgrade. Well since I am not in your guild, I have no reason to be happy nor dissatisfied with what happens to it.
I may have hold of the wrong side of the stick, but the change is inevitable. It's going to happen whether we like it or not and
while the pain is inevitable, the misery is OPTIONAL.
I have nomisery. I have input and insight that being a CH gives me.
The future is so bright, my kaadu has to wear shades.Are those shades or blinders?
DarkBagel
Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:02 am
#46
BE is not required to sell pets. My ch doesnt even have BE. That profession is on my alt.
As far as my 'a few credits' remark goes, consider someone who spends tons of money on cases of brandy and such at 125k per case. Whats 4k to him? Obviously not much if he/she/it can afford to spend that much. Me personally, I would never spend that much because I cannot afford to. However, if theres a new player walking through the streets of mos eisley that needs 4k, then I'll help them out. If someone is out in the field trying to earn credits, I'll help them out. My reward is combat experience, skill exp, and a new friend.
Large payouts are nice but look at it this way. Whats the difference between getting a 20k level x mission or two 10k level y mission? The 10k mission will be easier even if there are two of them to undertake for the same amount of credits. You'll still get the same amount of credits.
Jopenack, Do you need to have your 3 pets in the group with you to do missions?
I know melee professions can fight just as well if their pets arent in the groups but I dont know about riflemen. When I was a rifleman, I had a problem with the mobs closing into melee range. I gave up the profession before I mastered it. You wont lose the 3/4th payout if you dont have them in your group. Even if you need them to tank, you can still have them attack first and sniper the mobs. I dont know how a master rifleman fights and wont pretend to.
We can all look at this in the worst light and think that our prof is dead, but thats a rather negative attitude. Lets all look at this in a postive light and consider it a challenge. How can we best overcome it? What strategies can we use to work around it?
Let me ask you this...shall we act for ourselves or be acted upon?
We can let this change control what we shall do and how we shall fight or we can not let it get under out skin and find different ways to overcome the limitations that may or may not have been put upon us.
Why cant a CH sell pets if a BE can? CH has a wider variety of pets from which to choose from and can sell trained pets. BE cant train one thing. I'm not going to tell people how to sell their pets as I am still learning the merchant arts myself and everyone has different ideas of how to sell.
People can always use mounts. How many speederbikes have been taken out in the field? How many nightsisters have disabled them in one shot? Thats where out mounts come into play. Backup transportation :-) Sure if the mount gets zapped by 10k of damage, it'll probally go down..but you can always reuse it. Not so with a disabled bike.
Some might say that mounts arent that fast - Well..I would rather have a mount that I can ride instead of running on foot any day.
Those that want to give up when the going gets tough, well.. see ya. Enjoy cancelling your account and giving soe the finger. I for one will not give up and lie down defeated. There are always friends to group with. Two people working one lair and splitting the credits will get the job done twice as fast. Three people will get it done 3 times as fast. It just takes a little coordination and a little friendship.
I wonder what it would be like to have half a dozen people pull lairs in the same area and just lay seige to the area. Those lairs would fall in no time. :-)
Lets continue to play..togather and look towards the positive. I see so much negative thinking and expressions in the forums and in the chat room when the servers go down all the time. it doesnt have to be that way.
If we look on the negative, then we've already been defeated - by ourselves.
DarkBagel
Fri Nov 12, 2004 12:35 pm
#47
>Few CH are complaining about the fix. JFreeman will find it. He is mightier than the Force.
No problems here. :-)
>I don't think you have been around long. "Our" pets do not sell. Would you buy a CDEF for 10K? No one wants these >useless pets. BE out-sell CH pets 99.9:.1 there is no market there. Count on this market and go hungry. Again, CH >is not the one complaining about the nerf, just the bugs that were inadvertent. Pets increasing levels and >splitting payouts. It seems the pets still increase the levels, now we await the fix for payouts.
No problems here. :-)
>I don't think you have been around long. "Our" pets do not sell. Would you buy a CDEF for 10K? No one wants these >useless pets. BE out-sell CH pets 99.9:.1 there is no market there. Count on this market and go hungry. Again, CH >is not the one complaining about the nerf, just the bugs that were inadvertent. Pets increasing levels and >splitting payouts. It seems the pets still increase the levels, now we await the fix for payouts.
I have been around since SWG first went beta before the launch. I remember all too well the time before we had vehicles and had to run from city to city. I remember how long it took to login on the first day SWG went live and all the problems that were had back then. What we have now is caked compared to SWG in the beginning. Dont let the time on this account fool you. This is my alt account, not my original account. I have not always been a CH but I have always been around and mindful of the economy at hand.
>I usually do not question how long someone has been a CH but we have had 2 major nerfs (if you count the CH revamp >and the Creature Combat Upgrade as one). This one as major as the others? Nope. But it is comprehensive. Again, it >is reported to us that this is merely a bug and not a nerf. When we have no market already. As an elite with only >CH it takes us infinite times longer to make good money. We cannot buff our pets and store them, although other >elite players can BUFF then ZONE. So if we want to be merely CH; much like a BH can rule PvE as just a BH; we are >reduced to non-buffed pets on Adventure planets. When we have non-buffed pets we have to have multiples. Everyone >else will simply retreat to doing Sharnaff missions. Buffed and armored and still not taking damage. CH must have a >pet grouped to even pull a Sharnaff mission.
Lets wait and see how this plays out on the live server rather than the test server after any bugs are fixed. It may actually not be that bad. We also have to consider the fact that while CH is one of the more fun guilds in the game, it is not a brawler/marksman type combat guild. Sure they can beat the pants off us making money. Sure the crafters can beat the pants off us making money. So can the doctors. However, we still have our fair share of money making capability. Lets compare us to the dancing profession. Its quite easily to say that we make a ton of more money than them.
There are melee guilds that complement CH just fine. Using one of those guilds will enable us to make money even faster. An Elite with only CH is an Elite without a good combat guild. How can we expect to take missions without the skills to back up our pets? Part of being a CH is having the ability to protect and defend our beloved pets from nasty mobs :-) If you are a hunter in addition to a CH, you gain those valuable fighting skills. If you are not a hunter and choose to spend your SP in another category, you gain valuable skills that you have chosen and given up the fighting that you could have had otherwise. Your SP are your choice. If you dont spend them on a combat profession to back up your CH capabilities then expect to be limited in your fighting skills.
>UM. Hey you got a plan. A 36K mission which few will get unless grouped will now pay out 3.6K with 10 to the group. >This means the economy just took a 90% nosedive. 2-3 weeks after this goes live there will not be 100cpu resources. >Your plan is flawed.
Is it really my plan thats flawed or your logic? You assume that you will only get 3.6k. Uhmm. Think more missions. You will get 3.6k per mission for 36k missions. Theres 10 friends in the group and they each take 10 minutes then that 3.6k turns into 36k. How long will it take? It stands to reason that it will take a LOT less time for 10 players to storm through one lair faster than one person can do it. Everyone could also give all the money for mission x to the owner of the mission and receive it all when its their mission being done. Thats what friends are for. Grouping with strangers where everyone is just out for themselves and nobody else, then that will not work, but thats why you make friends - to be friendly and help one another out. Isnt that the basic premise for a guild?
>Obiwan's mission wasn't to rescue Leia. It was to fulfill his destiny. Only by dying would it help Luke follow his >chosen path. Leia, Chewy and the droids got caught. Even Luke got caught and he got lucky he beat the rancor.
I have to disagree. Obiwan wasnt like "We need to get a pilot to fly the ship to the deathstar so I can sacrifice myself to help you follow the chosen path..." it was to get a pilot to get them to alderaan. On the way, they got caught by the deathstar and they had to rescue the princess.
>As I found out this was not a prelude. At least not an advertised one. Everyone is up in arms about this move. It >was a stealth nerf. You can argue it was an exploit of an unintentional bug. The fact is that any bug that lasts as >long as
this in a game will be used fully by the players.
A stealth nerf? Never heard that one before. Sounds like it could be a new creature of some sort. :-)
There is a time for everything and everything has its own timeframe. They have looked at combat for a long time. They have been occupied by JTL. Now that they can focus on the combat revamp, they have started down that road. The time has come to change the way things are done with grouping. I can see how it fits with the combat revamp. Things are going to change so much in the coming future that this isnt really that big of a deal. Lets all just wait till the revamp comes out and see how things are then.
>>We'll still have our pets. After the combat revamp, our guild is going to get an upgrade. Lets wait and see what >>that nice upgrade will bring us. We'll have a new stuff and for those who feel so inclined, new things to complain >>about. :-)
>My job isn't to argue what does or does not benefit the other classes. I get to the guts of the matter about what >is happening to CH. The rest of the universe is none of my concern except as to whether it remains balanced with CH >by Skill Point usage. I am so glad your guild is getting its very own upgrade. Well since I am not in your guild, I >have no reason to be happy nor dissatisfied with what happens to it.
>My job isn't to argue what does or does not benefit the other classes. I get to the guts of the matter about what >is happening to CH. The rest of the universe is none of my concern except as to whether it remains balanced with CH >by Skill Point usage. I am so glad your guild is getting its very own upgrade. Well since I am not in your guild, I >have no reason to be happy nor dissatisfied with what happens to it.
My apologies for the confusion. When I stated that our guild is going to get an upgrade, I was speaking of the CH profession. I just used guild instead of prof and that caused the confusion. However, the point remains. Things will get better after the upgrade. And yes, changes to other profs do have an impact on our profession. It may not be a direct impact but there surely will be an indirect impact upon us as Creature Handlers.
Have we beat this topic to death yet? :-)
People are upset and thats understandable.
However, the best thing to do is focus on what we can do rather than wasteour energy making rude comments, idle threats, or complaining how its going to ruin our beloved prof.
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