Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Discussion Topic: Know your Role
Vertexon wrote:
There have recently been a number of threads talking about what the "role" of the Creature Handler currently is in-game. I'd very much like to get more thoughts on this, so I'm creating this thread to focus the discussion. Here are a few questions to get the ball rolling:
1. Whatwas the appeal of the Creature Handler profession to you? In other words, what things make being a Creature Handler something you have chosen to do?
For me. It is a chance to care, train and learn of the species I am caring for. I do not pet my pets in a no win situation unless it's necessary. I do not let my pets fight alone because I don't want them to be severely hurt or incapped.
I became a Creature Handler to be surrounded by everything from the smallest, cutest and most harmless of creatures to the largest, most feared of vicious beasts.
My pets and I are my group and family as far as my Wookiee character goes. I do not look to others to save me or fight with me because my pets are there to keep me alive and in turn, I am there to keep them alive.
2. What role(s) do you, as Creature Handlers, fill in the game world? For example: Tanks, damage-dealers, roleplayers, status effect inflicters (i.e. poison, disease, knockdown), resource harvesters, mission runners, pet salesmen, pet trainers, etc. Which roles (combat or non-combat)does the CH fill better than any other profession?
Roles I would like Creature Handlers to have...
Tanks. Depending on the pet of course. We can be a valuable commodity in a large fight against a MOB. Though, that's pretty much CH's only use right now is to tank. Which I like, but I tire of the gaming having to revolve around combat all the time.
Roleplaying, for the most part comes hand in hand if the Creature Handler chooses to use it. Some CH's refer to their pets as mindless tanks/pixels that they sacrifice or replace on a whim. To the roleplayer. Our pets are loved and cherished. I feed/play with my pets when they have even minor wounds. I bring them out to follow me around, even though there are times I don't use them or don't need to.
Creature Handlers should have a variety of functions.
Resource Harvesters. A creature aid, training by a Creature Handler to assist a crafter in locating certain resources.
Pet saleman to a point. CH's could be a non-combat pet salesman.
Rescue pets for Medics/Doctors. A pet trained to deliver medicines to wounded PC's in combat at a greater distance and much more quickly. A pet trained to drag incapped PC's from a battle minimizing the risk to the medic/doctor.
Entertainer pets. Pets trained by Creature Handlers that have a wound healing skill mod. Pets trained that have different tricks and/or particle effects to assist in healing. Pets such as bird type creatures or elephant like creatures that can even "sing" along with thier masters.
Mounts. Pets trained to act as pack animals for crafters or harvesters. Pets trained to be used as safe mass transportation such as Fambaa's, Tortons and Maklocs. Pets trained to assist in large battles by moving turrets or carrying shield generators. Pets trained to be used as Slow, moble houses for the nomad types that do not care to have a home settled,
A Creature Handler themselves should be the authority on creatures as far as training various pets for various combat and non-combat uses. That is what they would mean to Non-Ch's.
He also can train the smaller, more harmless pets as house pets for Non-CH's.
To the Creature Handler himself/herself. He/she knows the way of creatures and understands the nature of life, even knows the mysteries of some of the more fearsome and unknown beasts such as Rancors, Krayt Dragons Kimogila's and such.
He can use his pets to protect/fight for him at will. He can becon his pets to save the life of someone in need. He is the one that controls the stable in town for people to let their pets roam or to act as a shelter. A place where pets wait to be bought by a new owner, though in the mean time, the Creature Handler cares for them. Feeds them and keeps them happy.
Pets should need food on a regular basis, not just when wounded. Pets should have a variety of personalities. These personalities should be affected by how they are treated by their masters. Not just mindless combat tools as they are now. I enjoy combat, but I want to be something more than a Tank Handler as we currently are now.
Let's say that Bob the Master Creature Handler has a Rancor. He often feeds him and cares for him. Playing with him and keeping the Rancor happy. This rancor will serve his master in any situation he is assigned to. He will care for his master as his master cares for him.
Now you have Novice Creature Handler Bill. He has a Greater Sludge Panther. He only feeds the panther when he has wounds. Only plays with it when wounded and fatigued and often sends his pet to a brutal death. This pet would not react to his master in caring friendly ways as Bob's would. He would be nothing more than a mindless killing machine until one day all of his vitality is gone and he is released by Bill to live out the rest of it's short misused life. Bill tames another GSP and does it all over.
See what I am trying to get at?
Basically what I am trying to say is that Creature Handlers revolved around NOTHING but combat. How about a little variety and passion put into our profession? How about a little imagination other than the one dimensional aspect of our profession that we have now? These are not just pixels to me or my characters. They are my cherished pets that need a use other than combat...
3. What should a Creature Handler's place in a hunting group be? Everyone in the group wants to feel important... what should make the Creature Handler an important addition? What would it take to get us to that point?
Depending on the pet. A CH pet should be either a tank or a debuffer damage dealer.
Thanks for your time Vertexon...
Aakhperkare :> wrote:
Let's say that Bob the Master Creature Handler has a Rancor. He often feeds him and cares for him. Playing with him and keeping the Rancor happy. This rancor will serve his master in any situation he is assigned to. He will care for his master as his master cares for him.
Now you have Novice Creature Handler Bill. He has a Greater Sludge Panther. He only feeds the panther when he has wounds. Only plays with it when wounded and fatigued and often sends his pet to a brutal death. This pet would not react to his master in caring friendly ways as Bob's would. He would be nothing more than a mindless killing machine until one day all of his vitality is gone and he is released by Bill to live out the rest of it's short misused life. Bill tames another GSP and does it all over.
See what I am trying to get at?
Sorry I know this is slightly off topic.
But what you are describing is a fairly old fad of handheld digi pets, where you had to constantly monitor and be nice to your pet in order to get it to do things.
Not that it isnt a nice idea, but take that and x it by 22 pets in your datapad.
And you soon wont have any time for game play.
You will be too bussy trying to be nice to all your pets.
This may not be what you actually intended, but it reminds me too much of bygone handheld pets that drove me potty 
2. I consider my CH role, and the role of my pets as TANKS only. I use my combat skills to kill the Mob, and my pet to deflect the damage away from me.
3. I used to think the CH's place in a hunting group was to provide the protection for the other players. Let the Pet take all (most of) the damage and allow the players to attack safely. However, I was in a group 2 nights ago which consisted of (amongst others) 2 TKAs. They were quite clearly taking as much, if not more damage than my pet (LVL 40,50 pets). After this experience, I realized that when it comes to high end groups, my pets are not necessary for general protection.
Furthermore, my pet actually became a hinderance, when he decided to run away and drew on of the Mobs away from the group. They both ran over 100m away from the lair, to the point where I "LOST" them both. I stored the pet from the datapad, and the Mob was never seen again.
Vertexon wrote:
1. Whatwas the appeal of the Creature Handler profession to you? In other words, what things make being a Creature Handler something you have chosen to do?
2. What role(s) do you, as Creature Handlers, fill in the game world? For example: Tanks, damage-dealers, roleplayers, status effect inflicters (i.e. poison, disease, knockdown), resource harvesters, mission runners, pet salesmen, pet trainers, etc. Which roles (combat or non-combat)does the CH fill better than any other profession?
3. What should a Creature Handler's place in a hunting group be? Everyone in the group wants to feel important... what should make the Creature Handler an important addition? What would it take to get us to that point?
1. Well, I beta tested, and tried a few of the professions out. At the very end of beta I did some ch, and loved it. It was the only profession I tried that seemed fun, because hunting all the different pets, trying to find the rare ones, trying to find one better than the last...it was all just so exciting. And it still was until they started nerfing the poor critters, but by that time I had BE, so I was trying to make the best pets I could. I do it mainly for having the awesome pets who can accompany and guard me (no combat skills 
).
2. Usually I solo, but since I joined a guild I've been hunting with a few others. Usually I need my pet to do lots of damage, but I also need it to tank. And it is a necessity that my pets have really good specials....that actually work.
3.I think the CH should be included in hunting missions, as the role of the tank. I think pets should hold agro while everyone else lays down the damage. Basically, we can do this right now, and effectively. I'm able to do this with small groups hunting medium level stuff, and with big groups hunting lots of stuff at once. I can even do this with just four players, one pet, hunting krayts, as long as we're all coordinated and keep shoving meds into the pet. However, it is only possible with the best pets, and not everyone has those. I get to tailor make my pets, so I'm sure it's different for me. I don't think CH is completely dependant on BE, but I definitely think that day should never come. I think they should help each other out, but CH's shouldn't have to go to BE's just to find a decent pet, those should be available in the wild.
Freth wrote:
There is a phrase that really makes me cringe as a CH... and that's "run missions". The only time I look at a mission terminal is to find lairs for specific creatures when I'm in a hurry or have a hard time locating them. Missions are generic and pointless to me, except for a money-maker. Missions are extremely boring because it reminds me of what I hated most about EQ... the fact that you had to fight to advance and when you got to the next level, guess what? It was more fighting and a longer wait to the next level. I want better alternatives to making credits than mindless killing (which by the way DOES NOT go along with roleplaying of my character, which is to be as humane to creatures as possible). That is why I'm a big advocate for things to give CH ways to make money. If I wanted to spend my time doing mind-numbing missions and repetitive fighting I'd still be playing EQ. Missions are fine if you want to find babies, but I abhore them as credit makers.
I'm a major contributor to my city and a founding member of my PA. Just to pay for all of that several of our citizens and guildies "run missions" because the bottom line is that there isn't a better way to make money in the game. Generalized hunting or even raids don't pay well enough to maintain a house, much less a city. Unless you're a smuggler, weaponsmith or armorsmith, crafting doesn't generally pay the bills.
I'd like a better way, but CH or otherwise I don't see one right now.
I keep thinking of things to say...
One of the biggest misconceptions of devs (especially Sony) is that every MMORPG should have forced grouping to get people to interact with each other. SWG is the most social MMORPG I've ever played. People get together naturally because the professions demand it. Forced grouping should not be the focus of the devs, because it already occurs naturally in abundance. I've made more friends in SWG than I ever did in the other MMORPG's I've played and it's all because the game is designed so well for it. There is no need for forced grouping.
Which gets me back to CH. CH is a solitary profession first and foremost because a CH has a bond with his pets that excludes everyone else. In my opinion grouping goes against the grain of what a CH is all about. That's the main reason I picked CH, so I could do things on my own and not have to depend on others to help me achieve my goals, not that there are any now that I am MCH. In other words, I DO NOT want grouping forced down my throat. I want this stressed to the devs in the biggest way. There are those of us that aren't power gamers, aren't into the jedi grind or the constant mission running. Those of us that like to roleplay and enjoy the profession at a leisurely pace. The day I have to group to tame/train the highest level creatures is the day I quit SWG, because it will have totally ruined my concept of CH. I get offers all the time... "Lets go hunt." My reply is, "I'm sorry, I don't hunt." Or they say, "Lets go kill some rancors."...my reply is, "I don't kill creatures for sport. I only kill when it's absolutely necessary." Which is the truth and the way a true roleplaying CH should be in my opinion.
I became a CH because I solo... alot... I don't like hunting with groups for the most part... CH used to allow me to enjoy high end content and still play the way I want to... after the nerf, I am severely limited on the content I am able to enjoy...
In a group pets should be the main tank... problem with that is pets can't take the damage they used to and deal even less out... wouldn't be that bad if people healed the pet or even each other, but they don't... hence my solo hunting attitude... why should I group up with anyone when they really do nothing cept pull agro from pet and run around like an idiot instead of standing by the person that heals them...
pets need some love for a change... or boost the intelligence of the common player... one or the other.
Matsubaa wrote:
I'm a major contributor to my city and a founding member of my PA. Just to pay for all of that several of our citizens and guildies "run missions" because the bottom line is that there isn't a better way to make money in the game. Generalized hunting or even raids don't pay well enough to maintain a house, much less a city. Unless you're a smuggler, weaponsmith or armorsmith, crafting doesn't generally pay the bills.
I'd like a better way, but CH or otherwise I don't see one right now.
Another misconception. I have one large home, one small, one medium and a factory---all sucking credits out of my wallet. I don't do missions at all and I have plenty of credits to throw around, thanks to pet sales. I don't know what a PA hall costs to run, but I'm a prime example of someone that does not need to do missions to make good credits. I'm pushing a million credits right now as we speak. It may not seem much to a lot of the fighting professions, but this is major pocket change for a wookiee that has no need for armor, can purchase cheap pistols and can harvest his own resources for traps and camp kits.
I make my money from pet sales (even tho they are stagnant at the moment) and miscellaneous loot items that sell for good money... like twin force crystal clusters, locked containers, discs. It all adds up.
So, no... it's not necessary to run missions to make a living. The day I'm forced to do that is the day I quit the game, because I refuse to grind monotonously for credits. Some people enjoy the monotony. Some people are just power gamers seeking jedi and the uber phat loot. Me? I'm a MCH enjoying his profession as much as possible and roleplaying it as I think it should be.
Chaice wrote:
I became a CH because I solo... alot... I don't like hunting with groups for the most part... CH used to allow me to enjoy high end content and still play the way I want to... after the nerf, I am severely limited on the content I am able to enjoy...
In a group pets should be the main tank... problem with that is pets can't take the damage they used to and deal even less out... wouldn't be that bad if people healed the pet or even each other, but they don't... hence my solo hunting attitude... why should I group up with anyone when they really do nothing cept pull agro from pet and run around like an idiot instead of standing by the person that heals them...
pets need some love for a change... or boost the intelligence of the common player... one or the other.
This is exactly my line of thinking. Having to put up with people that don't have a group mentality is the biggest turn-off for me as a MMORPG gamer. I can't stand dealing with people that have no respect for the group. These are the people that jump the gun and draw in a bunch of mobs while the rest of us are healing at a camp site. The ones that lead us into a group of high levels "by accident". The leader that doesn't know what he's doing. Don't get me wrong, a good group where everyone knows their place and does their job is a finely tuned machine that can achieve greatness, but finding that is very hard to do unless you group with the same people all the time. That's fine, but a CH tames and trains creatures, he doesn't do missions for a living.
Freth wrote:
Another misconception. I have one large home, one small, one medium and a factory---all sucking credits out of my wallet. I don't do missions at all and I have plenty of credits to throw around, thanks to pet sales. I don't know what a PA hall costs to run, but I'm a prime example of someone that does not need to do missions to make good credits. I'm pushing a million credits right now as we speak. It may not seem much to a lot of the fighting professions, but this is major pocket change for a wookiee that has no need for armor, can purchase cheap pistols and can harvest his own resources for traps and camp kits.
I make my money from pet sales (even tho they are stagnant at the moment) and miscellaneous loot items that sell for good money... like twin force crystal clusters, locked containers, discs. It all adds up.
So, no... it's not necessary to run missions to make a living. The day I'm forced to do that is the day I quit the game, because I refuse to grind monotonously for credits. Some people enjoy the monotony. Some people are just power gamers seeking jedi and the uber phat loot. Me? I'm a MCH enjoying his profession as much as possible and roleplaying it as I think it should be.
I couldn't do pet sales. I never really liked the role of merchant and particularly in the SWG pets, it's not an income I would care to rely on.
Doing missions is the best way I've found to have free time away from making credits. I can do several (or many) high paying missions and have the rest of the time to do anything I please. I have a friend who is mastering commando right now and another who is working on rifleman/medic and between the three of us we can make several hundred thousand credits in a good day's (or nights) missions. For the cost of one night a week, I'm not stuck waiting for the proverbial phone to ring and a sale to go through.
Consequently, it means on any given day I'm either relatively rich with 200k+ or flat broke. I guess all we've shown with this discussion is that there are different ways to go about it, but that no single way is going to work for everybody.
Vertexon wrote:
There have recently been a number of threads talking about what the "role" of the Creature Handler currently is in-game. I'd very much like to get more thoughts on this, so I'm creating this thread to focus the discussion. Here are a few questions to get the ball rolling:
1. Whatwas the appeal of the Creature Handler profession to you? In other words, what things make being a Creature Handler something you have chosen to do?
I was killed by a TEF camper witha GSP. I though if I could use pets then I would do better in PVP. Oh how little I knew! (lol) Also the reason I got SWG was because I was sick of the "group or die" aspect of EverQuest. I wanted to solo and I needed a meat shield. I never planed on getting to MCH but in time it really grew on me and so my reasons changed. I enjoyed the rush I got from taming pets, when it was actually possible to find and tame good ones. I also wanted to sell pets to make money so I wouldn't have to do missions for credits.So I guess now I'm just down to the fact that I put to much time into it to give it up and I hold some hope that things will turn around for us.
2. What role(s) do you, as Creature Handlers, fill in the game world? For example: Tanks, damage-dealers, roleplayers, status effect inflicters (i.e. poison, disease, knockdown), resource harvesters, mission runners, pet salesmen, pet trainers, etc. Which roles (combat or non-combat)does the CH fill better than any other profession?
I can train BE pets for non-CH players. And ... hmmmm ... thinking ... hmmmm ...
3. What should a Creature Handler's place in a hunting group be? Everyone in the group wants to feel important... what should make the Creature Handler an important addition? What would it take to get us to that point?
What we should be is tankage! Give the mob something to beat on so the rest of the group dosn't take damage. The only way to do this is to get some sort of a command to make the pet taunt. Make the mob focus in it even when the group is all around it attacking. This would also require stronger pet. Reverse the nerf!Atleast give MCH a modifier % to the damage a pet does or takes. Alsoif the specials commands ever worked we could add value there.
Thanks Vertexon, forthe chance for us to focus on some of these issues. I am eager to hear your feedback.
Vertexon wrote:
There have recently been a number of threads talking about what the "role" of the Creature Handler currently is in-game. I'd very much like to get more thoughts on this, so I'm creating this thread to focus the discussion. Here are a few questions to get the ball rolling:
1. Whatwas the appeal of the Creature Handler profession to you? In other words, what things make being a Creature Handler something you have chosen to do?
The role of being a creature handler to me has changed. At first it was for a companion to help me on harvester runs. That protector became more than that as I grew attached to the pets, and now they are fun to tame and have. I try to keep all kinds of pets on my limited datapad, from the lowly chuba to my GSP (CH 2-2-2-2). As I am leveling up, I think it will be my goal to collect different cats as I can find them, that and a Rancor.
2. What role(s) do you, as Creature Handlers, fill in the game world? For example: Tanks, damage-dealers, roleplayers, status effect inflicters (i.e. poison, disease, knockdown), resource harvesters, mission runners, pet salesmen, pet trainers, etc. Which roles (combat or non-combat)does the CH fill better than any other profession?
I think that it should depend on the pet being used. I think that certain pets should be absolute killing machines (read Rancor) able to inflict grievous damage in PvE. Others, should be more "tank-y" such as Grauls or the like. I think that when a MCH calls a Rancor, opponents should quiver, not drool in anticipation. In PvP I think that CH pets should not suffer from damage mitigation, and that big creatures should be immune to knockdown. A TKM should be very scared of a Rancor.
As for what roles a CH performs better than any other - NONE. PCs tank better, creatures get owned in PvP, Bioengineers make more desired pets, Rangers gather organics better, and Artisans sell better transports.
So I don't see where CH fill any role in the game world. They don't even solo as well as a TKM or other classes. The only reason to be a CH that I can see is if you like the creatures, for all of their faults.
3. What should a Creature Handler's place in a hunting group be? Everyone in the group wants to feel important... what should make the Creature Handler an important addition? What would it take to get us to that point?
The wild should be our playground, scouts, rangers and us should excel at being in the wild far above the other classes. I think that CH should be able to mount most, if not all of their creatures and be able to fight from them, specials with both of us. I'm sure that would be a programming headache. I love the idea of a CH mission terminal. I also think that we should get a structure for player cities, a Zoo - which can make money - based on the number and rarity of creatures displayed and maybe heal mind damage like a cantina (after all who isn't relaxed after a trip to the zoo). I think that if we hunt in a group and attack smaller creatures, there should be the chance of our Rancor, Kimogila eating the kills or the odd hostile PC. The image of a Rancor picking up a player and chomping down on him would definately feel more Star Warsy.
my 4 bits
Rurry wrote:
should be the chance of our Rancor, Kimogila eating the kills or the odd hostile PC. The image of a Rancor picking up a player and chomping down on him would definately feel more Star Warsy.
I know it will never happen but that would be great!A stormtrooper, legs kicking, halfway in the rancors mouth. (lmao)
And it would save on pet food too!