Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Hmm what is wrong with a lvl54 master CH
Ciediwo wrote:
Anarrion wrote:
lostswede wrote:
Anarrion wrote:
The Combat Upgrade refers to upgrading SWG to a combat game from a crafter-entertainer-combat game. Perhaps it doesn't translate well into Swedish.
The combat upgrade wasnt for upgrade the game to a total combat game from a crafter-entertainer-combat game, it was to fix a broken combat system. But with the fix they shaft the crafters and entertainers, so now do then needs some loveto bring back the former so called balance, betwen them. I hate the way SOE sometimes use the word balance. SWG are still sold as a Crafter-Entertainer-Combat game and not a pure combat game, if it is as you say it is do they need to change the boxes to the game our they may get in trouble for false advartising.
By the way i understand english very good so no translation is needed to swedish, i have more problem to make my self understand when i write english then understnad the ppl trying to communicate with me.
Horn out
I was concerned you might take it the wrong way. Perhaps I should have explained further to avoid that. My apologies. I am an MCH/MBE and my alt is an MChef/Merchant. My point was that it appears as if SOE wants to discourage people from being crafters or entertainers. I recently posted an explanation why I think that MCH/MBE should not be excluded from being able to use the taming necklace:
My 1st attempt at a Clicky
Message Edited by Anarrion on 10-27-200510:59 AM
Ok I'm going to go out on a limb here, because I can see your point about the whole crafter/combat professions getting very little love. But look at from another point of view.
As hard as a tame it may be at times you are able to take a creature that is 16 levels above your own and bend it to your will. Simple math I know, but it's still do able. Now if you loow at a Combat CH they are taming creatures 10 levels below their own, offering little benefit in the way of a fight. If you group with your leve 70 pet you in effect gain 16 levels to your combat abilities and all the defenses that go with it, and the xp gains that placed along with that. Grouping with a pet that is 10 levels below our own actually decreases the amount of xp gaining that we as a Combat CH get. Now I am a MBH/MCH and I'm not telling you that you need this or that profession to make you better as a CH, but see what's it's like from our point of view also. I personally am glad that there is the limitation on the CL level of the Taming Necklace. it offers the Combat CH a more viable reason to have the pets out, to beable to be used in a group and not have to worry if our BE's CL 25 Durni is going to survive the next fight because we joined a full group and can't have our pets join to offer them the same defensive bonus that a CL 80 pet would have all on it's own.
Yes, it is nice to be CL 58 and control a CL 70 pet. Overall, I am happy as an MCH/MBE. Iwas pleased to be able to kill some of the CL 65ish Lava Fleason Mustafar the other night without much trouble -- as long as I don't get aggro'd.I also killed a fair number of CL 70+ Sith recently with my CL 70 pet to complete the Force Sensitive Ranged Accuracy quest.
If I group with my CL 70 pet, though,the pet comes down to my level on most combatabilities and defenses. If I am attacked, my defenses are still those of a CL 58. When I fight against high CL mobs, I don't group with it (which makes monitoring it's health a bit of a pain). When not grouped I have, indirectly, the offensive combat ability of the CL 70 pet (although my pets do far less damage than a player of the same CL). And, as long asmy enemiesareattacking my petand not me, I have, indirectly, the defenses ofthe CL 70 pet (>8400 Health).
If I were in a group, I would certainly prefer an MCH/MBH with a CL 80 pet than an MCH/MBE with a CL 25 Durni. I think SOE needs to reconsider the way pets and grouping currently work to make it easier for CHs of any CL to more easily get into groups.
Also, I've never askedthat MCH/MBE, which I am,be given any additional CL other than some for the sampling line, in accordance with the standard additional CL you get from any elite combat line. Even with the additional CL that that would provide, an MCH/MBE cannot do anywhere near the damage that a Combat CH can do. I think it's great that a Combat CH now has the potential to control a CL 80 pet, rather than being limited to one 10 CLs below him. But, I really don't see any harm done to Combat CHs if non-Combat CHs have the potential to wear the necklace.
Message Edited by Anarrion on 10-28-2005 10:59 AM
Anarrion wrote:
Ciediwo wrote:
Anarrion wrote:
lostswede wrote:
Anarrion wrote:
The Combat Upgrade refers to upgrading SWG to a combat game from a crafter-entertainer-combat game. Perhaps it doesn't translate well into Swedish.
The combat upgrade wasnt for upgrade the game to a total combat game from a crafter-entertainer-combat game, it was to fix a broken combat system. But with the fix they shaft the crafters and entertainers, so now do then needs some loveto bring back the former so called balance, betwen them. I hate the way SOE sometimes use the word balance. SWG are still sold as a Crafter-Entertainer-Combat game and not a pure combat game, if it is as you say it is do they need to change the boxes to the game our they may get in trouble for false advartising.
By the way i understand english very good so no translation is needed to swedish, i have more problem to make my self understand when i write english then understnad the ppl trying to communicate with me.
Horn out
I was concerned you might take it the wrong way. Perhaps I should have explained further to avoid that. My apologies. I am an MCH/MBE and my alt is an MChef/Merchant. My point was that it appears as if SOE wants to discourage people from being crafters or entertainers. I recently posted an explanation why I think that MCH/MBE should not be excluded from being able to use the taming necklace:
My 1st attempt at a Clicky
Message Edited by Anarrion on 10-27-200510:59 AM
Ok I'm going to go out on a limb here, because I can see your point about the whole crafter/combat professions getting very little love. But look at from another point of view.
As hard as a tame it may be at times you are able to take a creature that is 16 levels above your own and bend it to your will. Simple math I know, but it's still do able. Now if you loow at a Combat CH they are taming creatures 10 levels below their own, offering little benefit in the way of a fight. If you group with your leve 70 pet you in effect gain 16 levels to your combat abilities and all the defenses that go with it, and the xp gains that placed along with that. Grouping with a pet that is 10 levels below our own actually decreases the amount of xp gaining that we as a Combat CH get. Now I am a MBH/MCH and I'm not telling you that you need this or that profession to make you better as a CH, but see what's it's like from our point of view also. I personally am glad that there is the limitation on the CL level of the Taming Necklace. it offers the Combat CH a more viable reason to have the pets out, to beable to be used in a group and not have to worry if our BE's CL 25 Durni is going to survive the next fight because we joined a full group and can't have our pets join to offer them the same defensive bonus that a CL 80 pet would have all on it's own.
Yes, it is nice to be CL 58 and control a CL 70 pet. Overall, I am happy as an MCH/MBE. Iwas pleased to be able to kill some of the CL 65ish Lava Fleason Mustafar the other night without much trouble -- as long as I don't get aggro'd.I also killed a fair number of CL 70+ Sith recently with my CL 70 pet to complete the Force Sensitive Ranged Accuracy quest.
If I group with my CL 70 pet, though,the pet comes down to my level on most combatabilities and defenses. If I am attacked, my defenses are still those of a CL 58. When I fight against high CL mobs, I don't group with it (which makes monitoring it's health a bit of a pain). When not grouped I have, indirectly, the offensive combat ability of the CL 70 pet (although my pets do far less damage than a player of the same CL). And, as long asmy enemiesareattacking my petand not me, I have, indirectly, the defenses ofthe CL 70 pet (>8400 Health).
If I were in a group, I would certainly prefer an MCH/MBH with a CL 80 pet than an MCH/MBE with a CL 25 Durni. I think SOE needs to reconsider the way pets and grouping currently work to make it easier for CHs of any CL to more easily get into groups.
Also, I've never askedthat MCH/MBE, which I am,be given any additional CL other than some for the sampling line, in accordance with the standard additional CL you get from any elite combat line. Even with the additional CL that that would provide, an MCH/MBE cannot do anywhere near the damage that a Combat CH can do. I think it's great that a Combat CH now has the potential to control a CL 80 pet, rather than being limited to one 10 CLs below him. But, I really don't see any harm done to Combat CHs if non-Combat CHs have the potential to wear the necklace.
Message Edited by Anarrion on 10-28-200510:59 AM
So you see no problem with a non-combat CH getting a CL 80 pet? Vs. a Combat CH getting the necklace? So should the combat CH's get a necklace that allows them to tame pets that are 26 Combat Levels above them because they used a combat profession with thier template vs. a non-Combat CH? I see a very large imbalance in this. I see this as a way for a non-Combat CH to add a Master Melee Profession to thier skills, a medium damage profession albeit, but still it's like giving them more skill points to use on said profession without having to actually get the profession.
Now don't get me wrong, if I were a crafter/CH yeah I'd want some help to keep those nasty critters at bay while I check my harvesters or factories, as most wild spawns are CL70 or less. But as a Combat/CH to have the same type of help on our missions or quests it would be nice to have a pet that is our same level. To me as a Mainly Solo player this helps a whole lot.
Indene wrote:
Ciediwo wrote:
(snip)
So you see no problem with a non-combat CH getting a CL 80 pet? Vs. a Combat CH getting the necklace? So should the combat CH's get a necklace that allows them to tame pets that are 26 Combat Levels above them because they used a combat profession with thier template vs. a non-Combat CH? I see a very large imbalance in this. I see this as a way for a non-Combat CH to add a Master Melee Profession to thier skills, a medium damage profession albeit, but still it's like giving them more skill points to use on said profession without having to actually get the profession.
Now don't get me wrong, if I were a crafter/CH yeah I'd want some help to keep those nasty critters at bay while I check my harvesters or factories, as most wild spawns are CL70 or less. But as a Combat/CH to have the same type of help on our missions or quests it would be nice to have a pet that is our same level. To me as a Mainly Solo player this helps a whole lot.
Perhaps it is you who are confused. The only non-conbat CH's are people that have no Creature Handler Skills. Not even Novice Creature Handler. A Master Creature Handler is a full Combat Creature Handler. We even get Battle Armor Certs. Not even BountyHunters get that.
So no we do not see any problem with a Master of the profession being able to control the Max pet. Had you been talking about a crafter (who can handle up to CL 10 non agressive creatures) Then we would agree that they (non combat CH) should not control a CL80 pet and that is how it is in the game even now.
-Indene- (Master of her profession and fully Combat rated.
Message Edited by Indene on 10-28-200501:20 PM
No I'm not confused. there is a difference between a crafter/CH (CL 54) vs. a Combat/CH (CL 80) And Armor has nothing to do with it. There are other ranged professions that get battle armor, so don't bring BH's into the whole thing, I only brought it in as my template, if I were a Carbineer who I believe gets Battle Armor would you say the same thing about them?
It seems that you are the one who is confused. Especially considering that you are part of "BEAST". I would expect you to know the difference between a non-Creature Handler (non-agressive creatures CL 10 or less), a Non-Combat Creature Handler CL 54(ie. Architect/MCH), and a Combat Creature Handler CL 80(ie Teras Kasi/MCH). the n-CH have always been non-agressive CL10 the N-CCH can control upto CL 70 pets (currently) and the CCH can now control CL 80 pets. I believe that this is how the system should work. He put forth some thought provoking ideas, but I still believe that it should stay the same way for the necklace to be a CL 80 Cert needed for it.
Indene wrote:
Ciediwo wrote:
No I'm not confused. there is a difference between a crafter/CH (CL 54) vs. a Combat/CH (CL 80) And Armor has nothing to do with it. There are other ranged professions that get battle armor, so don't bring BH's into the whole thing, I only brought it in as my template, if I were a Carbineer who I believe gets Battle Armor would you say the same thing about them?
It seems that you are the one who is confused. Especially considering that you are part of "BEAST". I would expect you to know the difference between a non-Creature Handler (non-agressive creatures CL 10 or less), a Non-Combat Creature Handler CL 54(ie. Architect/MCH), and a Combat Creature Handler CL 80(ie Teras Kasi/MCH). the n-CH have always been non-agressive CL10 the N-CCH can control upto CL 70 pets (currently) and the CCH can now control CL 80 pets. I believe that this is how the system should work. He put forth some thought provoking ideas, but I still believe that it should stay the same way for the necklace to be a CL 80 Cert needed for it.
I fear than that you and I will have to agree to disagree. Now the STATED position of the Devs and most other CH is with me. The concept that a master of a combat profession is a Non-Combat (profession) makes no logical sense. But if we use your definiton then ANY Elite combat profession mastery leads to a Non-Combat state. Wow I even have trouble finding proper ways to state it.
A Bounty Hunter who is not also a master of another combat profession is a Non-Combat Bounty Hunter.
A Commando who is not also a mast of anorther combat profession is a Non-Combat Commando.
-Indene-
Ciediwo wrote:
No I'm not confused. there is a difference between a crafter/CH (CL 54) vs. a Combat/CH (CL 80) And Armor has nothing to do with it. There are other ranged professions that get battle armor, so don't bring BH's into the whole thing, I only brought it in as my template, if I were a Carbineer who I believe gets Battle Armor would you say the same thing about them?
It seems that you are the one who is confused. Especially considering that you are part of "BEAST". I would expect you to know the difference between a non-Creature Handler (non-agressive creatures CL 10 or less), a Non-Combat Creature Handler CL 54(ie. Architect/MCH), and a Combat Creature Handler CL 80(ie Teras Kasi/MCH). the n-CH have always been non-agressive CL10 the N-CCH can control upto CL 70 pets (currently) and the CCH can now control CL 80 pets. I believe that this is how the system should work. He put forth some thought provoking ideas, but I still believe that it should stay the same way for the necklace to be a CL 80 Cert needed for it.
I fear than that you and I will have to agree to disagree. Now the STATED position of the Devs and most other CH is with me. The concept that a master of a combat profession is a Non-Combat (profession) makes no logical sense. But if we use your definiton then ANY Elite combat profession mastery leads to a Non-Combat state. Wow I even have trouble finding proper ways to state it.
A Bounty Hunter who is not also a master of another combat profession is a Non-Combat Bounty Hunter.
A Commando who is not also a mast of anorther combat profession is a Non-Combat Commando.
-Indene-
Ciediwo wrote:
Indene wrote:
Ciediwo wrote:
No I'm not confused. there is a difference between a crafter/CH (CL 54) vs. a Combat/CH (CL 80) And Armor has nothing to do with it. There are other ranged professions that get battle armor, so don't bring BH's into the whole thing, I only brought it in as my template, if I were a Carbineer who I believe gets Battle Armor would you say the same thing about them?
It seems that you are the one who is confused. Especially considering that you are part of "BEAST". I would expect you to know the difference between a non-Creature Handler (non-agressive creatures CL 10 or less), a Non-Combat Creature Handler CL 54(ie. Architect/MCH), and a Combat Creature Handler CL 80(ie Teras Kasi/MCH). the n-CH have always been non-agressive CL10 the N-CCH can control upto CL 70 pets (currently) and the CCH can now control CL 80 pets. I believe that this is how the system should work. He put forth some thought provoking ideas, but I still believe that it should stay the same way for the necklace to be a CL 80 Cert needed for it.
I fear than that you and I will have to agree to disagree. Now the STATED position of the Devs and most other CH is with me. The concept that a master of a combat profession is a Non-Combat (profession) makes no logical sense. But if we use your definiton then ANY Elite combat profession mastery leads to a Non-Combat state. Wow I even have trouble finding proper ways to state it.
A Bounty Hunter who is not also a master of another combat profession is a Non-Combat Bounty Hunter.
A Commando who is not also a mast of anorther combat profession is a Non-Combat Commando.
-Indene-
Ok, yeah I guess I can consede that there are going to be many different views as to what each profession is entitled to, I guess as is our right on these forums to voice our opinions, however different they may be. In regards to my definition on the CH wheather non-, Non-Combat, and Combat is in regards to their other mastery, as it only really truely applies to CH's, a BH is a combat BH as he is a combat profession. He may not be the full CL 80 if he has just mastered BH and a non-combat profession like artisan. But I guess it just boils down to a difference of opinion, which is fine. Which has gotten me to thinking that most double Elite Combat Professions would be truely considered a Double Elite CL 54. of course I, could be wrong on this one as well.
Caildir
LOL good point. I bet conversations like these go one with the DEVs when they try to balance and rebalance a game
-Indene-