Creature Handler Archive

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Joker9125 wrote:

Numbers are exactly what I have been rolling over in my head on this subject the last few days. Did ya know that In the current system a novice rifleman can outdamage an ancientkrayt given that 2 said krayts were fighting each other?

Given that all creatures are AP0 and ancients have a min/max damage of around 1000/4000 averaging to around 2500 a hit. Now take that average and reduce it by 75% from heavy armor and you get 625 damage, then factor in 95% resists and you get 31 damage per hit and since krayts like to intimidate well just cut that number in half leaving it at a nice 15.5 rounded up to 16 damage per hit.

Ok lets take a novice rifleman using a 200/500 damage t21 averaging to around 350 per attack now factor in the 1.5X damage mod for using default attacks (forget exactly where I heard this but it semms to be correct because I will do like 700 damage to something that is vernerable to energy using auto attack and the max damage on my t21 is 500) .the AP3of the T21 and the AR3 of the krayt will negate each other leaving just the 95% resists which would leave the rifleman doing 26 damageper hit just using auto attack provided he stays out of the intimidate range of the krayt 26 > 16.

you aren't considering the dps of a novice..a novice has very little accuracy, and extremely slow speed compared to a master, a novice might hit one every 3 times, and take forever between shots

Lets give a hypothetical translation into the new systen (given that the min/max damage wolnt change for anything in the game as many of you are assuming).

Lets assume for a second that assault armor will act as heavy armor against mode1 but as light or no armor against mode 3 (were going to assume that it will act as light). Now lets also assume that krayts will get mode 3 damage and assault armor. That2500 will get reduced to 1250 then factor in 95% resists on top of that will come to 62.5 rounded up to 63 dived by half for intimidate would come to 31.5 rounded up to 32.

i think it's too early to make assumptions on how the new armor will work..i see what you are saying, but i understood degrees of armor were being removed..i also thought % resists were also being removed...you calculations are based on the current system, and assuming they actually changed the system like they would have us believe, i think the %age factor and the degree of armor may be gone...

Now lets compair that to a master rifleman using strafe2 firing in mode 3with the same t21. The 350 damage average of the t21 X the 5X damage mod for strafe 2 350 X 5 = 1750. Now factor in the same same damage reduction as for the krayt and that damage wil be reduced to 875 and 43.75 rounded up to 44 provided he stayed out of the range of the intimidate 44 > 32.

Sorry if this dosent make much sense but its way past my bedtime and my brain isnt running at full capacity.

Message Edited by Joker9125 on 03-23-2005 01:45 AM

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I want to use EverQuest as my hate list model.

First we need to give a few definitions.

A Puller is the person who makes the first hit. In making the first hit the mob is guided to where the group wants to the combat to occur. The first person thus pulls the mob via how the hate list works.
Tank is the person who is best designed to take the damage. The main reasons someone tanks is better armor or hit points.
Healer is self explanatory.
DPS is damage per second.
Nuker is typically a profession that has potential to deal tons of damage at once but has little or no soft attacks.
Crowd Control is the person who takes care of any extra mobs that come along. By what ever means the CC person is designed to take no dame but effectively stall the additional mobs. Often referred to as ADDs.

Let's cover the difference between hate and agro first. Let's for the sake of argument say Hate is any action that leads to the mobs demise. Whether actively attacking, being in a certain radius or healing those attacking you can acrue hate in almost any encounter. Agro in gamer definition means you are the active target because you are at the top of the hate list. The way to get at the top of the hate list is likely coded as pluses. Hypothetically it could be +5 for radius, +10 for attacking, +15 for healing, +20 for every 100 damage inflicted.

Some game systems are designed in different ways. Tankers can be pullers but may not be the most effective pullers. The point is that depending on how the PvE creatures stats move. A whole lair of bull rancors in the future possibly may not be tanked by one person. Either we will need an effective means of pulling only one or we need effective means of controlling an additional 3-4 mobs.

In most instances (from my experience) the puller almost always has some way to lose agro. The best example is Feign Death. The person pulling shoots and then runs toward the staging area. If there are too many they simply feign death lose agro. Or he feigns death and waits for the tanker to do enough damage before getting back up and joining the fight.

The crowd control person is there to make sure the Tanker does not get creamed by too many mobs.

Let's play out a quick encounter using some SWG professions.

For sake of argument we have in our SWG group a smuggler, a TKM, a Doc, a CH, and 5 marksman. We are hunting bull rancors and have found a nice little area to pull 4 Bull Rancors. The smuggler snaps of a shot and runs to that area. Once the smuggler is there he feigns death. The TKM uses assist to make sure he hits the exact same mob the Smuggler hit. Why you may ask is because the TKM now needs to out damage the smuggler in order for the smuggler to join the fight. In most other games a taunt is the special that the tanker (in this case our TKM) would use to ensure he keeps getting attacked.
Our CH is going to be our crowd control. The assumption here is that hate is not transferred to the CH when the pet attacks. The TKM is attacking one mob. The CH will tell his pet to attack every mob. The pet must get in at least one hit in order to transfer agro from the TKM to itself. The Bull ADDs at this point still only have radius hate points built up. Using the hypothetical points from the top they have 5 points. Once the CH Pet tags the ADDs they all focus on him.
The healer should be quite safe as long as the Tank is not being eaten the healing will stay minimal with only one mob focused on him at the time.
Our marksman are just additional DPS. At no time in any other game system does anyone try to throw off mass damage until the Mob gets to 20-50% damaged. They will periodically do specials but never trying to get agro. They will unleash specials if the Mob tries to run.
Once that mob falls the TKM moves to one of the Bulls on our CH's Pet. For best results, it should be one the Pet is not actively attacking. Our CH pet is going to keep building hate on at least one the whole time. This will be the last one killed.
Rinse, repeat.

Kind of how I see it working. Of course our CH could go with 19 Rifleman and the RM all target the pets MOB and all do 1K specials at the same time making short work.

Talon,

My dear friend, I have a new question. This is not related to any official notes or documents, neither is it covered in the rumor mill. If resists armor is a thing of the past what will happen with resists on pets? Will too high resists be null and void? Will any pets that do not conform become legacy only to have it eventually die from vitality hits?

Message Edited by spreadsheet on 03-23-2005 12:52 PM

Added Pluto

Plus the BE pet concerns.

Vert please any info on this? the clock is ticking 40 days 11 hours 32 min

Message Edited by taloncard on 03-24-2005 01:27 PM

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P9M wrote:
Vert,We all understand the NDA means you likely cannot say what is going on behind the scenes. Could you at least say you have forwarded these concerns? Time is really growing short for us. I hate to be a skeptic but for some reason I see people having to pay for yet another expansion before the CURB. I did not buy JTL so ROTW would cost me. Will the CURB itself be downloadable without ROTW? Seems that is a all around concern rather than CH only.

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As stated by the devs many many times before the CURB is a FREE download. However you will have to buyROTW which will alsoinclude the CURB.

Joker,

I guess I did not write the above as clearly as I could have. The inference is the last time there was a choice between a free update and a money maker update and there was a crucial deadline there was a choice made. We now have a free versus money maker and a May 5 deadline. Something will roll out before the other is my guess given the history.

thanks for the update vert. Not what I really wanted to hear but that Damn NDA junk

BTW to the people that complain vert does nothing on this board, look closely at his postcount. You will notice how much it has gone up in the past few months (he used to have quite a few less posts than me)
Guess where all those posts are, the correspendent boards, where the real fighting for the profession goes on.

Vert,

We all understand the NDA means you likely cannot say what is going on behind the scenes. Could you at least say you have forwarded these concerns? Time is really growing short for us. I hate to be a skeptic but for some reason I see people having to pay for yet another expansion before the CURB. I did not buy JTL so ROTW would cost me. Will the CURB itself be downloadable without ROTW? Seems that is a all around concern rather than CH only.

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P9M wrote:
Or a lot of talk about hawtpants.

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/rofl

I want to put my gruals in hawtpants and bowties