Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Yet another CU summery
SioBabble
Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:51 pm
#14
hossp wrote:
SioBabble wrote:
The hate system will cause the target to focus its attack on whatever or whoever is doing the most damage.
This of course eliminates pet tanks, and nullifies the CH's greatest advantage in combat.
This is stupid beyond belief, but then again, the CU has been transformed from a true upgrade into a massive nerf.
do you have this on good authority sio? seems this effectively kills the ch profession if that is the case..what can you use pets for if not to hold aggro? and if you can "beat" this by doing less damage than the pet, it would take 10 min to kill a single rancor, and your pet stim bill wil skyrocket proportionately..this seems like an odd thing to put in the game, who is going to want to have the best weapon in the group if it means you will be aggroed by everything? i only hope for the sake of the game, this is wrong
I have this on good authority, that the "hate" system will create a situation where the greatest damage dealer becomes the focus of the target.
This will affect player tanks, too, but of course the melee folks have the "taunt" command available to them to keep the target focused on them. This is used effectively by TKAs, for example, when dealing with peko peko albs that have 100% kin resist. The idea is to keep the alb on the TKA to tank for the ranged people actually inflicting the damage on the alb, or other melee types who are there to deal damage.
Which is why there MUST be a "taunt" command for pets, because otherwise CHs in the solo mode are only as good as their own inate defenses, which the CH profession provides absolutely no skills such as melee or ranged mitigation, because traditionally the pet is basically mitigating for us.
P9M
Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:59 pm
#15
jo,
Thanks. Even I can use genuine accolades at times.
For whatever reason my resume did not weigh heavy enough. I fault myself. I have not been nice to many red names. I have not had much reason to be happy with them. I have not been nice to Vert at times. Even if Vert overcame any bias he may rightly felt, I am sure I got axed by the Devs.
I still do what I do. I pick things down to their bare essentials. The CURB documents will keep coming and I will keep saying this looks like it may not work for CH. Of course we do not have all the documents. But as you describe, I feel it is better for me to point out what I think is flawed than to let it slide assuming EVERYONE else saw it before me. I do not think I am that much brighter than anyone else, but at times I do see a different spin than people.
But I am sick and twisted.
taloncard
Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:51 pm
#16
Thanks Jo
But as Pluto said we caused too much trouble and raised Hades with the red names in the way back when time.
Ah yes my favorite memories pluto. You and me with our pets out, jadin the Squad leader, Secoa and razi keeping everyone on their feet. Getting 80K of CH xp in 1 night, in the days before buffs and good armor.
we shall see, we shall see.
But as Pluto said we caused too much trouble and raised Hades with the red names in the way back when time.
Ah yes my favorite memories pluto. You and me with our pets out, jadin the Squad leader, Secoa and razi keeping everyone on their feet. Getting 80K of CH xp in 1 night, in the days before buffs and good armor.
we shall see, we shall see.
P9M
Wed Mar 23, 2005 12:02 am
#17
talon remember the first time we broke 160K each after grinding all night. I am sure glad the duo pet XP was there when we came up.
P9M
Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:07 am
#18
The agro system placed in 2003 was to keep CH pets from being the "I WIN" button in PvE. Fortunately, Better weapons and armor helped us as well. With the newer system if it stacks with the CH-agro system we might expect to be eaten more. Thus demanding better than +15 versus creatures.
Of course, part of the bigger picture (speculation coming) is that once weapon power and mostlikely less 3K damage specials the pets should stack more damage. This translates to the pet also stacking more Hate or agro.
/shrug who knows?
just another loose thought from another loose cannon.
Of course, part of the bigger picture (speculation coming) is that once weapon power and mostlikely less 3K damage specials the pets should stack more damage. This translates to the pet also stacking more Hate or agro.
/shrug who knows?
just another loose thought from another loose cannon.
BioEngine
Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:29 am
#19
I am crossing my fingers, for the day that Scouts, Rangers and Creature Handlers obtain weapon proficiencies so that we can do something with those bonuses to hit/damage creatures.
Maybe they will become applied to creatures as our own bonuses?
I am afraid that the release of new creatures indicates that there will be more creatures implemented after the CU that will replace current ones as the higher CL pets, while the Ancient Bull Rancors and Kimo's will fall down quite a few pegs in advance of their addition.
"I'd tip my hat to you, but I haven't got a hat."
- Some Twi-Lek
Rabideko
Ranger 1032
Teras Kasi 0242
Information Broker of Bloodfin
Message Edited by BioEngine on 03-28-2005 08:36 AM
velm
Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:35 am
#20
The pets, to me, are really only good 'tanks' when solo. If in a group, you can concentrate your firepower and eliminate most foes in a short time. If it is a 'high end' creature or whatever, the pet will not last long enough to make much of a difference, in most cases. Again, in a group, with concentrated firepower, and a someone in armor, with a good buff, they can act as a 'tank' and be much more effective than any pet, such as a TK, or Swordsman.
The stronger pets can add a certain something in a group atmosphere, but I see us as being too limited with what we can and cannot do. Sure, it is nice when taking out a Kimoglia to bring your rancor to the table and watch them play, but the main damage dealers will be the players. On buffs with armor, in a group, most things should not matter if a pet is there or not, at that point.
hossp
Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:58 am
#21
SioBabble wrote:
The hate system will cause the target to focus its attack on whatever or whoever is doing the most damage.
This of course eliminates pet tanks, and nullifies the CH's greatest advantage in combat.
This is stupid beyond belief, but then again, the CU has been transformed from a true upgrade into a massive nerf.
do you have this on good authority sio? seems this effectively kills the ch profession if that is the case..what can you use pets for if not to hold aggro? and if you can "beat" this by doing less damage than the pet, it would take 10 min to kill a single rancor, and your pet stim bill wil skyrocket proportionately..this seems like an odd thing to put in the game, who is going to want to have the best weapon in the group if it means you will be aggroed by everything? i only hope for the sake of the game, this is wrong
Joker9125
Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:40 am
#22
Numbers are exactly what I have been rolling over in my head on this subject the last few days. Did ya know that In the current system a novice rifleman can outdamage an ancientkrayt given that 2 said krayts were fighting each other?
Given that all creatures are AP0 and ancients have a min/max damage of around 1000/4000 averaging to around 2500 a hit. Now take that average and reduce it by 75% from heavy armor and you get 625 damage, then factor in 95% resists and you get 31 damage per hit and since krayts like to intimidate well just cut that number in half leaving it at a nice 15.5 rounded up to 16 damage per hit.
Ok lets take a novice rifleman using a 200/500 damage t21 averaging to around 350 per attack now factor in the 1.5X damage mod for using default attacks (forget exactly where I heard this but it semms to be correct because I will do like 700 damage to something that is vernerable to energy using auto attack and the max damage on my t21 is 500) .the AP3of the T21 and the AR3 of the krayt will negate each other leaving just the 95% resists which would leave the rifleman doing 26 damageper hit just using auto attack provided he stays out of the intimidate range of the krayt 26 > 16.
Lets give a hypothetical translation into the new systen (given that the min/max damage wolnt change for anything in the game as many of you are assuming).
Lets assume for a second that assault armor will act as heavy armor against mode1 but as light or no armor against mode 3 (were going to assume that it will act as light). Now lets also assume that krayts will get mode 3 damage and assault armor. That2500 will get reduced to 1250 then factor in 95% resists on top of that will come to 62.5 rounded up to 63 dived by half for intimidate would come to 31.5 rounded up to 32.
Now lets compair that to a master rifleman using strafe2 firing in mode 3with the same t21. The 350 damage average of the t21 X the 5X damage mod for strafe 2 350 X 5 = 1750. Now factor in the same same damage reduction as for the krayt and that damage wil be reduced to 875 and 43.75 rounded up to 44 provided he stayed out of the range of the intimidate 44 > 32.
While this isnt QUITE as unbalanced as the old system in the new system a player would still be able to outdamage one of the toughest creatures in the game given that player/creature damage stays relatively the same with only the AP/AR system changing which as I understand it is what many here belive.
Under the old hatesystem a novice rifleman would still be able to get loot rights for one of the krayts andwiththe new hatesystem the rifleman would get aggroed by the krayts and killed. If creature damage vs player damage stays the same then the C/U/R/B that was supposed to bring everyone else in line with uswill in fact be the biggest nerf to our profession to date because we will even lose our ability to tank. Which would undermine the purpose of the C/U/R/B which is to balance all combat professions and as was stated by the devs we ARE a combat profession so we should expect to be balanced with everyone else. So logically I am assuming that player damage will be getting hit with the nerf bat, our damage will be getting a boost, or both will happen.
Sorry if this dosent make much sense but its way past my bedtime and my brain isnt running at full capacity.
Message Edited by Joker9125 on 03-23-2005 01:45 AM
jopenack
Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:57 am
#23
P9M and Talon I regret not being on your servers and meeting you guys when I was a noob. IThink I would have enjoyed your company.
Joker
I actually thought you would say "who me" lol. but here you are crunching numbers, you sir are amazing lol.
jopenack
Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:15 am
#25
lmao
that explains why I always get confused reading your post
hehe
P9M
Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:46 am
#26
I never understand because there is math involved lol. But as long as you give me the final DPS it's pretty easy to follow.