Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Ranger & CH should be Combined
velm wrote:
So, I have never harvested organics before? Pretty sure I have. I am sure I spent as much time out in the boonies hunting organics as most of the Rangers did. I have made millions doing that. Harvesting organics is not a ranger only talent.
Our professions are based on the same trees, we are not as different as some would like to others to believe. I have used my pets as a hunting companion on all my trips.
I have thought the two should have been merged for a while. A natural synergy exists between them.
How different is the Ranger from the CH?
-The Ranger can make camps! So can the CH. Depending on how much he wants to put into scout, he can make some alright ones.
-TheRanger can forage!So can the CH.
-TheRanger can harvest organics! So can the CH
-The Ranger can throw traps! So can the CH. Again, depending on how much they want to put into scout, thetraps getbetter.
-TheRanger can Mask Scent. So can the CH. Wearing BE clothes, I could walk on Dath or Endor and rarely draw aggro. Jawa Beer can make it even better.
- The Ranger can track. Yup, Ranger only.
-The Ranger can Conceal. I had good enough luck with Mask Scent.
So, out of all those skills, the ONLY two that a CH does not have are track and conceal. Yes, the CH will not have super neat camps and traps as a ranger, but we still get them at the basic scout box. Depending on how much we want to invest in scout, we can get some decent ones.
When I think of the 'ranger' or myth or lore, the lone hunter comes to mind. But, with this lone hunter is also a four legged companion, be it a dog or a bear or another animal.
Well,technically, camps and traps arenot CH skills, they're only scout/ranger skills. A CH doesn't naturally get those. That is, a CH has tohave2 of the scout trees, andas a result you can say that CH does naturally get masked scent and harvesting. But you can still be a CH without traps or camping. Investing points to get those skills doesn't make them CH skills, just makes them scout skills that a CH picked up. In the same way that a Rifleman could get scout skills if he invested the points.
Even more technically - just to be difficult 
- a CH really doesn't have any Ranger skills.A CHhas scout skills. What the Ranger has are Ranger versions of mask scent and harvesting.Having been a Ranger, there really is a big difference between Ranger and Scout mask scent/harvestingabilities. Well, pre-CU there was anyway.
Ranger and CH certainly have a lot more in common than "nothing", but they are still very different professions in that the focus of each profession is very different. Though, I would definitely agree that an animal companion would be appropriate for the Ranger. I've always thought that a Ranger should be able to control a pet higher than CL 10. Maybe up to CL 20, something like that.
JBMat, mounts move at the same rates as they always have. It's the movement of the non-mounted animals, and droids,that have been broken and slowed down. See the CH FAQ for vehicle and mount speeds.
Message Edited by ioan on 07-18-2005 12:49 PM
heres an awesome idea how about we take all skills from all classes includeing jedi......throw them together make one class so everyone can do everything of course armor smiths loose out because with the jedi abilities and that mean tkm center of being I wouldn't need armor...plus I can craft my own lightsaber or weapon....infact I could do everything you could do it would be a completely balanced system.....I mean who doesn't want to do everything in this game why should any one class be different in fact make us all the same shell and just let us flip a new tag above our heads so it appears we are different...........and then after all this Ranger skills would still be broken.
NEW PLAN REVAMP BROKEN CLASSES AND KEEP THE DIVERSITY THAT IS ALREADY LACKING THE WAY IT IS
sorry just one angry rangers opinion about this dumb and clearly to quickly thought of post
velm wrote:The ONLY skill that CH gets is creatures, that is it. We have NO other mods (well, maybe battle armor). I honestlythink it would benefit the Ranger profession to just move those mods to the Ranger side. Yes, both professions see little love right now.
I do not think it would be a watered down class. If anything, it would give more of an 'outdoorsy' feel to it. Going full Ranger now costs 110 skill points, that leaves enough skill points to master ONE other profession with 4 points left over. If creatures were to be added, it would increase their DPS and allow for a more effective character without being too powerful. Anything off of the scout tree gives NO bonuses to combat, other than lvl.
The difficulty I see is trying to fit 8 skill trees into four, unless the skill trees are totally intermixed. If the game developers tried to keep intact skill trees, dabblers would become very powerful very quickly. In order to prevent that, I think the skills trees would get watered down from what exists now.
I don't forsee many dabblers, or at least that many that are effective. The thing with CH is, our creature mods are spread out among the branches, +5 here, +10 there, and so on. We have a few commands we can train, but most of the effictive creature mods come at top tiers and at master. I would not really recommend going into CH without going into master, it is not worth it. At master, you can control three pets, your max lvl then goes up to 70.
With that in mind, I cannot see a person putting that much into it and being effective. They would not gain much. If they are into PVP, they would do better to go carbs/bh/cm, or some other stacker combo. With the stacker combo, they can work off the different ranged mods and use specials from each profession. The only thing that would be added would be pets, and truth be told, they are not all that for a person that wants to be 'uber.' Still going with the requirement to master Scout, the skill points would be too much for them to want to sacrifice.
Teero wrote:
here's one of the real reasons that we, as the Ranger community, would give against such a combination, is that we have seen our abilities given away, over, and over again, for months and months, and the idea of doing away with Rangers and merging it with some other profession is just sickening to most. Amen, brother.
first off, you needed scout/ranger camps to call vehicles/pets/droids. now anyone, even non-scouts can call anything they want, after a short timer. I was there for that.
rangers have had root and snare traps for ages, long before the CU, but the traps never worked. we asked for traps to work on NPCs and in pvp, but were told it would be too powerful, and that this couldn't be implemented. and instead of fixing the traps (which are still borked) they give these states to virtually every combat class. Good point.
rangers used to be the only ones able to apply camo, but now anyone and their wookiee can. I don't even want to speak about this brilliant idea.
we've been pleading with the devs for months asking that camo takes us off the radar so that we could have at least 1 viable tool in pvp. the ranger community was told it was technologically impossible to do, because clients could use "packet-sniffer programs" to find us. (which was a complete BS answer to begin with), and then what happens? the CU gives rifleman this ability, and jedi have force cloak. We have been asking for this alot longer if I remember correctly, was most prominent when they announced the CU.
that's just a taste of the slow steps towards removing Rangers from the galaxy, so please excuse some of us if we are wearing our tinfoil hats and crying conspiracy theory and are scared of the idea of something like this.
With all that being said. I mastered Ranger a long time ago. Then rifleman after that. Always had a pet with me while doing it (when GSP were decent enoughtanks), and the skills weren't nerfed for points like now. Always somewhere in my mind I wanted to be a CH, I really like the animals. I think the highest I ever got was 4334 CH, before I dropped it. Probably did close to that a few times ofer the past 2 years. Never mastered until recently.
Like one of the people said before, if we (Rangers) are so useless, why want our skills? I am thinking of going back to a ranged profession, and dropping ch entirely. Even with 3 Female Narglathes (elite), I am glad I spent the money on my advanced laser rifle. It has saved me more than the animals will. And most of that is probably because I am still not used to hunting like that, after having Rifleman or BH with Ranger, and that fact that CH needs work, along with a few other classes.
I think it has more to do with playstyle, what you like, and what you are used to playing. Every idea we have come up with or suggested, we were told it could not be done. Then they do it, and give it someone else. Personally I don't they think they need to mix the professions.
Bring CH back to its past glory from almost 2 years ago. CH's were bad-a$$.
Give Ranger what we need. Traps that work.
Don't mix us, wouldn't work. Besides don't we all just want the SL skills. We would rulegroup hunts, and get a cool pistol too.
/duck
/tar SL
/smile
Huh?
Creature Handler and Ranger are not as different as people think. Now, just stop, take a deep breathe and breath in and breath out, count to ten if you really want to. Stop, clear your mind of hate, and just try to think of Ranger. Now, you are thinking of Ranger, right? Now, think of Creature Handler, I am not sure if you have ever been one. But, I was a Ranger and a Creature Handler, so I know both sides. Think of what makes a Ranger. You got that Ranger thing down pat now? Ok, now lets think about Creature Handler, ready? A character who spends most of their time in the wilds. (Sounds a little bit like Ranger, right?) Gets to Creature Handler by means of two scouttrees. (Again, sounds a bit like Ranger, right? Ranger needs Scout mastery, but Creature Handler needs only two branches. But, stillthere is a bit of asimilarity, right?) Creature Handlers have camps, traps, hunting, terrain negotiation, forage, mask scent. (Do any of these skills sound familiar?) Should a Creature Handler wish toget more Scout skills, they can, thereby getting better traps, better camps, better mods overall. A great source of income forCreature Handler is by harvesting organics. (Isn't that what a Ranger can do?) The added DPS of thecreature can help out when gathering these organics.
You mean to tell me as aRanger, you have no desire tobe out there hunting thatnext good spawn with your loyal kusac by your side? Maybe I think a Ranger is just something more than a profession that can make a huge camp, andput camo on someone. I always thought it was a 'way of life,' not about "I am a Ranger and you just want my skills because you are a Creature Handler." That creature companionshould be right along side that Ranger. Combining the Ranger of now with Creature Handler would make a much more defined class. I always saw Ranger as lacking a little something.
But apparently, all some people can respond with is someincoherant postabout combining all the classs together.
velm wrote:Huh?
Creature Handler and Ranger are not as different as people think. Now, just stop, take a deep breathe and breath in and breath out, count to ten if you really want to. Stop, clear your mind of hate, and just try to think of Ranger. Now, you are thinking of Ranger, right? Now, think of Creature Handler, I am not sure if you have ever been one. But, I was a Ranger and a Creature Handler, so I know both sides. Think of what makes a Ranger. You got that Ranger thing down pat now? Ok, now lets think about Creature Handler, ready? A character who spends most of their time in the wilds. (Sounds a little bit like Ranger, right?) Gets to Creature Handler by means of two scouttrees. (Again, sounds a bit like Ranger, right? Ranger needs Scout mastery, but Creature Handler needs only two branches. But, stillthere is a bit of asimilarity, right?) Creature Handlers have camps, traps, hunting, terrain negotiation, forage, mask scent. (Do any of these skills sound familiar?) Should a Creature Handler wish toget more Scout skills, they can, thereby getting better traps, better camps, better mods overall. A great source of income forCreature Handler is by harvesting organics. (Isn't that what a Ranger can do?) The added DPS of thecreature can help out when gathering these organics.
You mean to tell me as aRanger, you have no desire tobe out there hunting thatnext good spawn with your loyal kusac by your side? Maybe I think a Ranger is just something more than a profession that can make a huge camp, andput camo on someone. I always thought it was a 'way of life,' not about "I am a Ranger and you just want my skills because you are a Creature Handler." That creature companionshould be right along side that Ranger. Combining the Ranger of now with Creature Handler would make a much more defined class. I always saw Ranger as lacking a little something.
But apparently, all some people can respond with is someincoherant postabout combining all the classs together.
I think that combining the two classes together would result in a generic watered down class that would not excell in any one area. There are just too many skill aspects specific to each class to combine and keep the best features of each. Which skills would be kept from each class and which would be dropped?
The ONLY skill that CH gets is creatures, that is it. We have NO other mods (well, maybe battle armor). I honestlythink it would benefit the Ranger profession to just move those mods to the Ranger side. Yes, both professions see little love right now.
velm wrote:Actually CHs can not forage. That is a skill in Scout that's not required for us. But we can easily learn it.
TheRanger can forage!So can the CH