Creature Handler Archive

Thread: I am now one of the few, the proud

GadonThek
Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:57 am
#14



taloncard wrote:
in other words just like in beta, CH will not be fully tested and the nerf cries will begin again.




Or in even more words, you could wait until they put elite professions on the frogs and test it then. You, and a lot of other people, dont seem to get that this phase is about testing the GRIND. Not profession masteries. Not elite content.
valetman
Tue Apr 12, 2005 10:31 am
#15



GadonThek wrote:


taloncard wrote:
in other words just like in beta, CH will not be fully tested and the nerf cries will begin again.




Or in even more words, you could wait until they put elite professions on the frogs and test it then. You, and a lot of other people, dont seem to get that this phase is about testing the GRIND. Not profession masteries. Not elite content.




I disagree, its about testing game progression, it should be fun, not a grind at all.

for me , the rifleman progression is fun, CH is painfully slow, it always has been since they stopped the double xp for 2 pets, and Im testing quite happily really.

The issue is 3 weeks left, and whilst I can more or less say that rifleman is doing fine in this CU, its fun to play and effective, I , and noone can give the same judgement on CH.

It requires mastery to explore the changes of this proffession, that isnt my opinion, its just how it is.
I cant say how unbalancing or effective a CH is until Ive got 70 levels of pets and all the commands at my disposal.

The big problem is time, like I said, Im pleased with the CU , apart from the level damage mitigators, which is a serious issue, and one that at master affects this profession more than any other.




VOBLAT [REJEK]-FARSTAR
Vobbucca - Test Center Wookiee
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until
you hear them speak

velm
Tue Apr 12, 2005 10:32 am
#16

WhooHoo! I been banned before, join the club!
velm
Tue Apr 12, 2005 10:37 am
#17




Going off on a sidenote, the game should NOT be considered a 'grind'.


Grind: To produce mechanically or without inspiration: The factory grinds out a uniform product.


The ONLY time I looked at the game as producing something without inspiration was when I sat there for 1.5 hours finishing off my survival xp to make master scout. That is the ONLY time. It took me almost 4 months to master rifleman. I took me about 3 months to make master creature handler. If it is so much of an 'unfun' time, why even bother playing then?


I read a post on another site from a crafter who 'grinded his way to Master.' His problem was he did not know how to make good products because all he did was 'grind'. What good does it do to 'grind' if a person does not know their own profession? I know of a MCH now, who 'grinded' his way to MCH in about a week. This person had no idea there were BE clothes, or Chef foods for this profession. This person did not know what some of the messeges across his screen meant when he saw them in regards to CH. So, what good does 'grinding' do? I could have 'grinded' my way to 'Master Rifleman' and not learned a thing about my craft. But instead, I chose to take my time and learn and enjoy myself. I learned alot. If I 'grinded', what would I have learned? not a thing.

Message Edited by velm on 04-12-2005 09:43 PM

Message Edited by velm on 04-12-2005 09:43 PM

Freth
Tue Apr 12, 2005 10:07 pm
#18

Welcome back Taloncard.


Like Taloncard, Sky and Pluto... I was there as well posting on the CH forum about the plight of our profession. I was there in the beginning, before the nerf and after the nerf. I saw it all transpire. The CH cause just wore me out and I couldn't take it anymore so I left.


I went off to play other games (WoW, Horizons, FF). It took me over a year before I found myself missing CH. I think what got me interested in SWG again was the Hunter class in World of Warcraft. I got that itch to tame creatures and make them my pets.


So, a couple weeks ago I signed back up for SWG. I had Freth on Intrepid, but that server is a shadow of its former self. None of my friends are there anymore. The only friend I had that still played SWG was on Gorath. I ended up creating a new character there (Fah-Mmm, a spitting image of Freth) and starting from scratch. It was refreshing to get back into the game. All of the bad feelings about CH and the game were gone. I just wanted to hop in there and have a good time, no matter the bugs or the imbalance issues.


My first task was to acquire TKM so that I could easily work my way through CH. I did just that last week and I'm now two boxes into CH and looking forward to having MCH before RotW hits.


I will give the CU the chance it deserves, but I will tell you this right now... I'm not that worried about combat balance anymore. My character's role is to be a creature handler and to have a good time with pets. Combat is going to be an afterthought or a means to make money for me. It will be interesting to see how it all pans out. I have no worries. You're looking at a former MCH that's been through it all and is still left standing, like the others. I think I can handle the combat revamp. Dumbing down? Maybe it's for the best. They did create an awesome combat system, but turning everyone into loot/money whores and buff junkies isn't my idea of Star Wars. Then again, neither is CH. But I digress. I'm just glad to be back and I've been having a ball with CH. I can't wait to be MCH again.


Someone mentioned earlier about grinding and not knowing the nuances of a particular profession. I agree wholeheartedly. Unless you take the time to smell the roses along the way you just don't have the knowledge or appreciation that comes with experience. I've been through the CH tree before, so I know exactly what to expect. But to someone new, they're missing out on quite a bit if they grind it all super fast. I've spent a few hours every day just taming low level babies and I've gained enough experience to acquire two boxes so far. CH doesn't have to be a grind. It is what you make of it. I enjoy the creatures and interacting with them. In the end that's really what matters to me as a CH. PVP and balance aren't as important to me anymore.




Fah-Mmm · Wookiee · Gorath · Master Creature Handler · Master Rifleman


taloncard
Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:03 am
#19

Ok since their are people that don't know the history of the great nerf and the CU let me give a brief synopsis.

CH was over powered given the state of the game in October 03. Everyone was a CH.
Nerf cries ensued.
CH got revamped to go with a "planned" combat revamp that never happened.

Good resources spawned= 2500+ buffs and 90% resist armor.
CH and Creatures became grossly underpowered. It seems the Devs failed to test the high end crafting in the beta of the game and jumped the gun with the creature nerf.

The CU beta is being rushed. The "sandbox" alpha stage was just forum discussion. it went straight to open beta.

1 month is not enough to test major changes to the game. This pretty much totally reinvents the game. Ctafting will be differnet, combat completely new.

You may as well call it SWG 2.0.

Bugs are expected, it happens even with programs that go through extensive testing. Forseable conflicts and problems are not acceptable. Not after we already went through this.

The CU showes much promise, yes. But is also showing a failure to adequately test, Just like SWG originally, Just like JTL, and I can only assume ROTW will be the same.

Again this game shows an incredable amount of promise. I want it to succeed, not fail or I wouldn't be playing. This is why I am so disapointed that they are pushing forward an IMHO inferior product.




Severan T'iam (Valcyn) RIP 7/2/2003-5/8/2005.
Master Nerf herder (oops I mean CH oops CH is gone but never forgotten)
SWG: Quote: Grand moff Tarkin: The Jedi are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe. you my friend are all thats left of their religon. Except for the other 5000 over there...


taloncard
Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:02 pm
#20

Freth!!!!

Good to see ya back man. we missed you




Severan T'iam (Valcyn) RIP 7/2/2003-5/8/2005.
Master Nerf herder (oops I mean CH oops CH is gone but never forgotten)
SWG: Quote: Grand moff Tarkin: The Jedi are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe. you my friend are all thats left of their religon. Except for the other 5000 over there...


GadonThek
Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:07 am
#21



jopenack wrote:
It takes the average CH months to become master, power grinding is not testing if there is only one MCH the in the last week of testing how acurate will that testing phase be.
Gadon its pretty obvious you don't like Talon, if thats the case why even reply to one of his threads.
Sometimes I avoid conflict with people whos opinions are always opposite mine, its not that I don't like a good debate but why inflame the individual and myself with no constructive outcome other than pissing eachother off.
Surprisingly I give Talon 5 stars for not responding to the insult posted the other day. it seems your not going to stop untill he fires back, unless your intent is to get him banned again.
In the end ask yourself why are you posting in this thread? and if the answers honorable then carry on. If it isn't the why bother.





"I am not one of the new, the proud"?

You're right, I dont like him, I dont like people who try and make themselves into forum "personalities" by acting like a "rebel". It seems to exactly the same as teenagers to pretend to smoke outside of school to be "rebels"; a sad attempt to get some attention and respect.

As to you, and other's, assertions that there should be no "grind" etc; you're right. Exactly right. But we're not here to mosey on through the professions, playing the game. We are on TC to grind up a box and do a quick checklist:

1. XP too fast/slow?
2. Abilities work?
3. speed/acc mods etc work?
4. weapon cert work?

Bam, that's it. This is about making sure that the framework works as perfectly as possible, and then testing how different profession frameworks work with or against each other. Thats it. Once we make sure that the frameworks work, we can go into detailed testing(and it would go alot faster if people actually tries testing rather than logging in, logging out and whining on the forums about the new icons).
valetman
Fri Apr 15, 2005 4:25 am
#22


Freth wrote:
Thanks man. Good to be back. I just reached 1/1/1/1 in the tree and will be working toward reaching MCH as soon as possible. I'm looking forward to having lots of fun again as an MCH. I missed it so much. I know we've been through a lot, but the fun factor just keeps bringing me back. I'm also looking forward to being an active member of the CH forum again.





for the near 2 years Ive played this game, I have enjoyed it.

I started on Bria a week after launch(had to import to the UK and it took a while to ship), I was a BH/CH, despite the bugs and the eventual nerf, I had fun.

November 2003 and the euro servers open, I start afresh on farstar, living in the UK it just made more sense to be around on the same time as everyone else.

Since then , Ive been a CH/rifleman.took me till january 2004 to master CH, been master CH/rifleman ever since, and despite the nerf , the CH playstyle has been what I enjoyed .

I dont feel the need to be uber, my ego doesnt need flattering by soloing pixilated krayt dragons, I just have fun.
My pets have even become quite famous on the server, my BE gurrek Laurel having been right to the bottom of the dwb on more than one occasion, tanking 4 sbd on her own to help the group survive(buffed secondaries do wonders), being a valued member of an unbuffed hunting group, my pets helped us complete the geo cave and kill ackaly, 8 of us,no buffs, no armour.
I had fun.

I built a small guild, made some good friends.On test center , I made another CH, I tried out crafting, melee proffessions, everything.
I did it all on different toons , so i didnt 'unlock'. Jedi is something I do not wish, even by accident.

In the beta Im also rifleman/Ch, its going slow for xp, but grouped with friends its fun, I dont care that my rifles dont chuck out insane AoE damage, but I have my pets still.

And I'll still have fun.

Message Edited by valetman on 04-15-2005 01:47 PM




VOBLAT [REJEK]-FARSTAR
Vobbucca - Test Center Wookiee
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until
you hear them speak

taloncard
Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:02 am
#23











GadonThek wrote:





As to you, and other's, assertions that there should be no "grind" etc; you're right. Exactly right. But we're not here to mosey on through the professions, playing the game. We are on TC to grind up a box and do a quick checklist:

1. XP too fast/slow?
2. Abilities work?
3. speed/acc mods etc work?
4. weapon cert work?

Bam, that's it. This is about making sure that the framework works as perfectly as possible, and then testing how different profession frameworks work with or against each other. Thats it. Once we make sure that the frameworks work, we can go into detailed testing(and it would go alot faster if people actually tries testing rather than logging in, logging out and whining on the forums about the new icons).







WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!!



That is what happened the 1st time around.



That is what lead to the imbalance,



That is what lead to the nerf.



TH went as far as saying the people that created the mutli thousand buffs exploited the system. That lead to a storm of people posting that "useing the best materials they could was exploiting?!?!!?!?!"



He also pointed out that 90% resist armor was never ment to be and composit was not supposed to be the be all end all of armor.



Well guess what, the codeing was there. It was there all along it was just never tested that well. The CH nerf cries started before the buff system was fully tested IN LIVE . It took about 8 months to get armor and buffs up to the "exploit" point. The point that made the revamped creatures all soloable. Kryats were supposed to be death machienes for solo players. Now how many people brag about being able to solo them? How many times have you heard from Red names that Rancor missions were never ment to be soloed?





We need to test every aspect. Yes we need to make sure the basics work. but we also must ensure that we once again have a place. CH has been without a Niche in game for a year and a half. We also have to make sure that this will be a game worth playing a few months down the road. If too many people leave guess what happens? Servers get consolidated, then everyone loses because there is just no fair way to do it.



In JTL beta, we told the devs they were looking at about 1 month worth of content for most gamers with JTL. They didn't believe us, end result, on many servers space is empty. JTL is used just as a shortcut to travel. I do my factional grind in space, Why because I almost never see another player.





I don't know how much beta testing you have done, but the purpose of testing is to push something to it's limits to find the bugs, problems and exploits. This is true of all testing, not just computer programs.



Look at the disaster drill they had in NJ last week. Did they just look for the bugs in the system? No they spent 3 days of a drill, pushing their system to the limits. Why? they wanted it to break, they wanted to see how to improve it, where it would fail. You can't do that if you just test within the basics.





Why do we play this game?? To have fun! If the new system isn't fun do you think SOE needs to know that? Well only if they want to have customers. THat Icon system, like it or hate it it's a part of the fun and needs to be reported on. THe particle effects? yep that may cause lag on the systems with the lower end requirements. Things need to be reported as they are found. There is only 3 weeks to test the CU left. it took years of beta testing and then 8 months of live for everthing to be fully tested. THis is not the time to hold off on reporting things.



Edited cause the system keeps logging me off and I had to write this 2x





We need people like Joker testing the CU. People who will do what is needed to push things to the limits. If I didn't have this problem of a Job and other responsibilites I would be right there with him. So instead I do what testing I can and I thank people like joker and support him, not tell him you are not supposed to be doing that, that isn't what we are testing.

Message Edited by taloncard on 04-15-2005 11:08 AM




Severan T'iam (Valcyn) RIP 7/2/2003-5/8/2005.
Master Nerf herder (oops I mean CH oops CH is gone but never forgotten)
SWG: Quote: Grand moff Tarkin: The Jedi are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe. you my friend are all thats left of their religon. Except for the other 5000 over there...


Freth
Fri Apr 15, 2005 12:14 pm
#24

Thanks man. Good to be back. I just reached 1/1/1/1 in the tree and will be working toward reaching MCH as soon as possible. I'm looking forward to having lots of fun again as an MCH. I missed it so much. I know we've been through a lot, but the fun factor just keeps bringing me back. I'm also looking forward to being an active member of the CH forum again.



Fah-Mmm · Wookiee · Gorath · Master Creature Handler · Master Rifleman


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