Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Sky Calls for the Death of Non-CH pets
Vertexon
Tue Sep 14, 2004 1:51 pm
#14
Aakhperkare wrote:
That's one of the big things about our revamp that irritated me the most. Instead of overpowered dabblers, you now don't even need novice CH to have a light armor decent kinetic resist pet. It's a big slap in the face...
Not really. The intent was to have Bio-Engineered pets be a little better than their wild equivalents. The non-CH light armored kinetic tanks we have been seeingseem likemore of an unintended consequence of issues with the BE revamp.
OniKCS
Tue Sep 14, 2004 2:07 pm
#15
Tottaly agree with you Sky I have never and will never use a BE pet. Im not saying that BE pets are a bad thing they work for some I just prefer to tame one straight out of the wild.
Creatures like the ones you describe arent pets in my opinion their abominations! (s/p)
Creatures like the ones you describe arent pets in my opinion their abominations! (s/p)
SkyPreacher1
Tue Sep 14, 2004 2:16 pm
#16
Hello
Having opened this proverbial can of worms, let me put down some of the things that I think.
As a Master BE, CH's should be my biggest market for pets. As a MCH, BE's should be my biggest source of things to do with pets. What, in fact, has happened over the past months is that we are busy slitting each other's throats.
My first pet was a non-ch Guf Drolg that I paid for from a CH. At the beginning he would continue to let me know when he gained a new skill and /tell me and he would upgrade my pet. My second non-ch pet was a cowardly gurreck. Both of these pets were, at the time, awesome, I loved them. Then I became a CH in July and started taming and training cowardly gurrecks for my friends. Then they took CL 15 away from us and I couldn't unload any of my CL 15 pets.
Then they gave us mounts for like 2 weeks, and then they introduced speeders and that was the end of the mounts.
My feeling has always been that certain mounts are for CH only. If you want to ride a bantha, become CH, you want to ride a CuPa become a CH. But those are all past issues now.
Vert, yes I can make you a level 5 mount as a BE. It will not tank, it will not fight but you can ride it and get that star warsy feeling. I have proposed in the BE forum that certain skin types, razor cat, etc. should be CL limited. You want a Cat skin get CH. This has also fallen on deaf ears, why? Because the number of CH's in the game has dwindled down to nothing. Master CH's that can handle and use the CL 50-70 pets are fairly rare.
Pluto made a suggestion that I highly endorse, allow Master CH's to train pet deeds with basic pet commands such as follow, attack, stay, guard, trick, store. So that when the BE puts his pet on the vendor it displays what commands are already on the pet. As a MCH I have people come and ask me to train their CL 10 mutations and I have politely told them no. They got angry but I said no, on the other hand I tamed one for a non-ch and it automatically asked me whether I wanted to change the level or the stats. Next question, how can a non-ch player tame a BE pet or any pet. Shouldn't be allowed in the game. That way the non CH would have to bring this monstrosity to a CH to get trained and when you go to train it it would automatically bring the creature into line with what is the norm.
Any way the BE profession has been a bit broken since their revamp. Not many BE's make pets cause they make more money selling tissue. I love making pets but no MCH has ever asked my BE to make them a CL 50+ pet, not once in 4 months on Kauri. Makes you wonder doesn't it. Oh and I will not make cl 10 monsters so my market is rather limited.
Tstorm
Tue Sep 14, 2004 2:22 pm
#17
SkyPreacher1 wrote:Over in the BE forums, of which I am a Master of, the debate rages about 10k HAM 60% kinetic resist CL 10 non ch pets.
When I first read the subject in the forum listing, I sighed to myself as it sounded like this would be a reworking of the old "I hate BE's" post. I did a doubletake when I read the "10k HAM 60% kinetic resist CL 10" bit. Seriously??? I guess I block all the uber talk and focus on having fun myself, but I was under the impression these uber pets were an exploit that had been fixed long ago.
I think the best course of action would be to ask the Devs to look into these pets as they seem to be out of line. When I consider "in the wild" pets as the benchmark, a 10K HAM, 60% kinetic resist pet can in no way be CL10. Doesn't "CL" stand for "Challenge Level"? If I were to go up against that thing, I'd need something way higher then level 10 to beat it!
I'd like to steer clear of the BE versus CH battle personally, but it seems clear to me that this particular BE creation is just wrong.
Tstorm
Tue Sep 14, 2004 2:26 pm
#18
Seiryuu wrote:
Giving non-handlers usable combat pets was a huge mistake.
I agree when it comes to some of these uber BE monsters. In general though, a CL 10 pet is pretty weak overall. Beyond the newbie area, players need to become CH's or gain better combat skills themselves.
The thing I see here is the BE uber pet is *not* CL 10. It is CL 50 (or above). I'd argue that it is a bug that it is being labeled CL 10.
Sheesh, as a MCH, I could have three of those things out and still not be at my CL calling cap. That's just wrong.
SkyPreacher1
Tue Sep 14, 2004 2:54 pm
#19
Tstorm,
As a master BE it's not really that hard to get a monster CL 10 pet.
In fact there are a lot of recipes for it.
One Mutant rancor and one creature with kinetic resists.
then you just sample down and sample out all the other resists except kinetic and HAM.
Usually you will end up with something along these lines:
H 9.4k
A 6.7
M 3.4
no armor
Kinetic 60%
0% on the rest or vulnerable
no specials
to hit and attack around 3
and damage about 120
Since most mobs hit the Health bar the hardest and use kinetic attacks these creatures don't suffer a lot of damage and their output of damage is negligible. BUT if you are in 80% composite armor, are a rifelman, commando or BH these pets are an awesome addition to your defensive help. I don't see them as being an appropriate pet for non ch's.
Tstorm
Tue Sep 14, 2004 3:47 pm
#21
SkyPreacher1 wrote:As a master BE it's not really that hard to get a monster CL 10 pet.In fact there are a lot of recipes for it.One Mutant rancor and one creature with kinetic resists.then you just sample down and sample out all the other resists except kinetic and HAM.Usually you will end up with something along these lines:H 9.4kA 6.7M 3.4no armorKinetic 60%0% on the rest or vulnerableno specialsto hit and attack around 3and damage about 120Since most mobs hit the Health bar the hardest and use kinetic attacks these creatures don't suffer a lot of damage and their output of damage is negligible. BUT if you are in 80% composite armor, are a rifelman, commando or BH these pets are an awesome addition to your defensive help. I don't see them as being an appropriate pet for non ch's.
Excellent BE primer for the uneducated (including myself). I've purchased BE pets, but still didn't really understand how customizable a BE pet can be.
It sounds to me like BE pets didn't spend enough time in testing. I am sure testing *did* occur, but with the wide range of DNA samples and things you can do to customize I am assuming some of these combinations we're seeing just weren't identified and the Devs moved onto their next hot topic to address.
As you said, a pet like the one designed above is intended to be a tank against health bar hitting creatures. Maybe part of this will be addressed in the combat revamp then? I kind of doubt it as what we've been told about the revamp seems to focus on players, specials, and that kind of thing, but it may end up affecting pets too. I sure hope Vert is following all this and is making sure the Devs consider this aspect of combat in the revamp.
Maybe instead of saying non-CH's should be limited to CL 5 pets, non combat pets, or that kind of thing, perhaps another alternative would be to just say that BE's cannot make pets lower than CL 11? That would make it so CH's could still provide wild pets CL 10 and lower to players for mounts, roleplay, and combat in newbie areas.
Before the BE's get bent out of shape with the above idea, I think probably a more fair alternative would just be for all CL 10 and lower pets made by a BE be far more restrictive in their final stats. I am not opposed even with CL 10 pets to see some minor modifications being made (even slightly better than their wild counterparts), but some of what I've heard of in this thread is pretty unbalanced.
jopenack
Tue Sep 14, 2004 4:03 pm
#22
unbalanced is the devs response to this issue they have known about it since the be revamp actually even earlier than that, this has been around for a very long time. and in past threads and a few ch's talking to a csr they have stated that its something they are aware of and will get to it in time.
ok so some BE's are exploiting and some ch's are also involved for training em but the truth is when krayts were being exploited they fixed it alot faster than this.
I blame the people who are aware of a problem but refuse to fix it.
sorry but the truth hurts they dont care because ch is a dead profession in theyr eyes and the mass marketing of jedi and jtl will forever soak up all theyr time
DaBudo2
Tue Sep 14, 2004 4:09 pm
#23
Of course you're preaching to the choir in this forum, but I'll throw my 2 cents in and definitely agree that non-CH have to be limited in the kind of pet they can have. Either no BE pets, BE non-CH pet that can't be better than a "wild" CL10 pet, or BE non-CH pets can't attack or be attacked.
SkyPreacher1
Tue Sep 14, 2004 4:32 pm
#24
Hi again,
The problem is simple, the BE coding is very complex and the "secret" formula and math that goes into coding for BE is just that secret. So we can speculate on how come but no one really knows why.
Now the devs tried to fix this but I think it's a little like trying to put your finger on jello, because there is different recipes to create this pet it gets tough to figure out a "one solution fits all" fix.
"shrug" BE's aren't selling many pets to CH's cause there is not a lot of CH's left in the game, so then their only next customer base is non CH's. With the price of natural resources going bonkers on most servers even tissue sales are suffering because the cost to make them is so high like 45cpu for reptile meat etc.
So I think we need to support our BE friends in trying to find a solution and a buyers market for their pets.
My other suggestion to the BE forum was that we petition the Devs to allow us to manipulate pet secondary stats, or make pet buffs that BE's can apply and will stick with the pet even though stored for a certain length of time, or pet buffs only master CH's can apply. Am open to suggestions here.
sadnebula
Tue Sep 14, 2004 4:49 pm
#26
I tend to agree that 10k ham + 60% is a bit to much for lv 10. Doing away with them is going to far in the other direction. A happy medium, Something along the lines of 5 to 6k ham with 40%. should be alright. course I think it would make all of us ch happy if wild pets were as good or better than the lv 10 be pets out there.
... I like be pets, using be pets I can make pairs to hunt with. but I think the story that soe handed out when wild pets were nerfed and be pets revamped was a load of crap. how can you say on one hand that wild pets are being nerfed to balance ch, then with the other hand give a profession the skills to make better pets than 90% of what was out there to start with. Perhaps in the fabled cr this will be corrected.
... I like be pets, using be pets I can make pairs to hunt with. but I think the story that soe handed out when wild pets were nerfed and be pets revamped was a load of crap. how can you say on one hand that wild pets are being nerfed to balance ch, then with the other hand give a profession the skills to make better pets than 90% of what was out there to start with. Perhaps in the fabled cr this will be corrected.