Creature Handler Archive

Thread: Issue/Request List Housekeeping

Aakhperkare
Fri Sep 03, 2004 10:04 am
#14






Vertexon wrote:

I know there's a lot going on right now, but the concern has been expressed to me that it might be time to make sure our Issue List is up to date (particularly now that Publish 10 is out the door). I'd especially like to make sure that the Top Five items on that list really reflect our five biggest priorities. Here's what's there right now:



1: Pets 'poof' back into datapad occasionally. Seems more common in crowded regions, in battle, or right after dismounting a mount


Pets also seem to have trouble attacking when on an incline or decline of terrain.


2: Many more creatures should spawn babies than currently are. Every creature under CL 70 should have at least a chance of spawning a baby


On top of that, but color variation and perhaps HAM variation on the babies.



3: Profession no longer has a niche in which it is particularly valuable. Melee players provide better tanking and damage-dealing, while Bio-Engineers sell better pets


We all pretty much know about the ideas to help correct this problem



4: Pets that have been trained as Mounts will not follow their master


I haven't had a problem with this as of yet.



5: Ongoing pathing problems (pets start moving very slowly or stop following altogether)


Still a very big problem, especially when said pet is trying to move around collidable objects.


6: The special attacks "Poison," "Disease," and "Knockdown" do not work with the specialattack1 and specialattack2 training commands. The useranged training command switches pets to Ranged Attack mode, but cannot switch them back to melee.


Only way to get the specials to workon occasion is to spam them, or a long or looped macro. Pets with a ranged attack tend to use nothing but ranged even when in melee distance.





7: Some pets run away when they come under attack in battle (more common with some body types than others). May be related to creatures having different ‘ideal attack ranges’ that they constant try to move to.


Still a BIG problem with some "model" types. Also many different pets are still standing on the owner, not keeping their distance.



8: Remove pet vitality loss from factional deaths, to be consistent with normal item decay rules


Hopefully this has been corrected.



9: The /tellpet command sometimes will not work for players. This generally happens in isolated episodes for players, both preceeded and followed by tellpet working perfectly with the exact same pets and commands.


An uncommon problem, but still a problem.



10: Creature Handling is not an effective tool at all against a PvP-oriented combat professional. A skilled Creature Handler needs to become more of a threat as part of the Big Combat Rebalance


Many suggestions already posted. Hopefully the CB will take care of this as well.



11: Mounts need to be valuable when compared to vehicles. Current mount advantages are not enough. Suggestions include improved mounted combat, improved mount speed/gallop, improved mount selection (flying mounts?)


Again, many many suggestions for making mounts more appealing, plus the addition of CH only mounts such as Rancors, Tortons and such.



12: No perceived advantage to using one’s Taming skills instead of just buying Bio-Engineered pets. Money is easy enough to acquire that "worse but free" does not feel very rewarding to Tamers.


Plenty of suggestions on this one too.



13: Ability to drop stored pets off either in a regular house or a specialized 'stable' structure


I vote for a CH stable structure.



14: Pet-calling delay of any length is not needed, as specific examples of 'exploit' behavior haven't been produced. Particularly given the fact that creatures are the only "weapon" that cannot be "equipped" while already in combat


Absolutely NO reason for the calling delay!



15: Rancor does not seem as powerful as has been established by Star Wars continuity. Even the weakest rancor should be a high end predator that is feared by players


Rancor's should be just about THE defining CH pet.



16: Pets need more variety in desired properties besides just Light Armor and Kinetic Resist. Varied damage types, armor piercing, and creature-unique "droid module" type functionality


Many many suggestions on this. Hope you find my In Concept Combat Roles suggestions worth mentioning, Vert.



17: Creature Handler "Epic Quest" (similar to RIS armor) with a valuable reward (i.e. unique pet, one-time use "tame adult" ability, etc)


Make the quest difficult, but not INSANE. Powergamers and casual gamers alike should have this opportunity.



18: Some Creature Handlers feel they should be able to see a wild creature's Difficulty level without buying the Master Scout skill


Atleast the difficulty level and specials.



19: Mount wearables/armor such as we have seen concept art for in online developer interviews


*crosses fingers*



19: Ability to carry items on mounts (using them as 'pack animals' as seen in the films)


*prays*



20: Multiple wild pets are not nearly as effective as one big one (reverse seems to be the case for BE pets)


The CL of a pet should have something to do with it's overall "power."



21: Ability to sell tame CH pets on vendor/bazaar


This should be limited to non-ch level pets, and mounted pets methinks.



22: XP rewards to successfully taming/training do not scale appropriately with creature difficulty (more XP should be awarded for taming/training more powerful creatures)


Definately.



23: CH-specific missions and content (i.e. 'Taming' missions) available from terminals and/or NPCs


Plenty of suggestions for the devs to read through.



24: Ability to train pets through the commandline (i.e. /train followme Follow)


Would make life easier for us.



25: More variety in creatures/pets in the wild. Different colors, slightly different capabilities, etc within a species


Yup yup and yup.



26: More new pet commands/tricks


Again, plenty of player input on this one.





And 27: You forgot to add the issue of rare tameables being a bit too rare in accordance with their stats. (this is an issue with many of us) Even with better stats, nothing should take 9 months (and counting) to accomplish. The rarity needs to be toned down regardless.


Other than that, all seems ready to go...




Message Edited by Aakhperkare on 09-03-2004 10:05 AM

Seiryuu
Fri Sep 03, 2004 11:51 am
#15

Add -- Pets like to stand on top of you quite frequently, rather than at a discrete distance.



-----
Visit www.swgcreatures.com for all your creature needs.
Tell 'em Lantyssa sent you!

Math got you down? Need a tissue? Try my Chef and Tailor Tissue Calculators!

Looking for a special? Try this Excel spreadsheet on Special Abilities.
TheLoneBowler
Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:33 pm
#16



Personally, I would put #3 as #1 and move the rest of the list down to accomodate....

#4 isnull for me....

#8 appears to be fixed...

#10 and #3 seem to be inclusive


The rest of the list seems good from what input/complaints I have seen on the boards.


My personal list (not requesting the 'official' one change, just my own top pet peeves...)


1. Profession no longer has a niche in which it is particularly valuable. Melee players provide better tanking and damage-dealing, while Bio-Engineers sell better pets. Creature Handling is not an effective tool at all against a PvP-oriented combat professional. A skilled Creature Handler needs to become more of a threat as part of the Big Combat Rebalance

2. Many more creatures should spawn babies than currently are. Every creature under CL 70 should have at least a chance of spawning a baby

3. Pet-calling delay of any length is not needed, as specific examples of 'exploit' behavior haven't been produced. Particularly given the fact that creatures are the only "weapon" that cannot be "equipped" while already in combat

4. No perceived advantage to using one’s Taming skills instead of just buying Bio-Engineered pets. Money is easy enough to acquire that "worse but free" does not feel very rewarding to Tamers.

5. Mounts need to be valuable when compared to vehicles. Current mount advantages are not enough. Suggestions include improved mounted combat, improved mount speed/gallop, improved mount selection (flying mounts?)


Just getting my say inbefore september 7th

Message Edited by TheLoneBowler on 09-03-2004 01:37 AM



Shree Lanka
7777Spec-Ops Arcas Legion8888
MasterY Medic Keeping SOAL Alive
"I tried being reasonable. I didn't like it."


IForgotMyName
Fri Sep 03, 2004 1:10 pm
#17

My top 5 is:


Many more creatures should spawn babies than currently are. Every creature under CL 70 should have at least a chance of spawning a baby


Profession no longer has a niche in which it is particularly valuable. Melee players provide better tanking and damage-dealing, while Bio-Engineers sell better pets


The special attacks "Poison," "Disease," and "Knockdown" do not work with the specialattack1 and specialattack2 training commands. The useranged training command switches pets to Ranged Attack mode, but cannot switch them back to melee.


Pets 'poof' back into datapad occasionally. Seems more common in crowded regions, in battle, or right after dismounting a mount


Ongoing pathing problems (pets start moving very slowly or stop following altogether)



*edited by admin*
TivoTenook
Fri Sep 03, 2004 1:13 pm
#18

#1 - This does not happen to me, and has not for some time (not in my top 5)

#2 - Absolutely. No exceptions(my #1)

#3 - Agreed. Whether we have one level 50 pet out or two level 35's or three level 23's, they can all easily be defeated (probably in my top 5)

#4 - Not true in my case (not in my top 5)

#5 - Yes, there are alot of little pathing problems involvingfollowing, staggering, all of a sudden stop following, not keeping up,sprinting on top of us, etc.(probably in my top 5)


My other prioties for CH:


  • Stables - Give us a structure or little fenced in area to place our pets rather than having them disappear into a datapad. This also encompuses the idea of more storage space.

  • Mounts are worthless. We need speed, looks, size, and more variety (ex. cats, tortons, rancors, flying mount, etc.)

  • Certain creatures need revamped stats- The riverside sulfer mynock is the only creature under 40 with armor. Drop the armor. However, certain ones like the gaping spider queen, kliknik queen, and prowling gurreck took MAJOR shots in stats, dropping from having light or medium armor to having none. These stats need fixed, and not dropped. Others like the ravenous torton deserve armor due to its huge shell. Same for the tortur bull when it becomes tamable. Maybe keep one of them lower level with armor but lower resists, then make the tortur bull level 53 or 61 with light armor and much better stats. Lastly, no masters use 3 pets anymore because it is pointless. Increase the pet used levels so we can have two level 50's out, then people wont laugh at us (as hard)

  • Pets need to be allowed to be sold on vendors. Would improve the CH economy.

  • Rancors and gurrecks are the laughing stock of CH. Make them scary in the eyes of players once again by fixing their stats. (if you cant tell, alot of pet stats need much better balancing. i would give my left leg to take on a project such as this, i have actually gone from planet to planet and wrote down every creature with its stats and then wrote down what i think they should be. this needs done if we are truly getting "rebalanced!"



Tivo Tenook (Lowca)
- Master CH/Master Rifleman
- SWG player since 7/6/03
- Rebel Alliance 2nd Lieutenant
- 87 Badges
*Official JTL Protester*
Pluto9Moon
Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:55 pm
#19






Vertexon wrote:

I know there's a lot going on right now, but the concern has been expressed to me that it might be time to make sure our Issue List is up to date (particularly now that Publish 10 is out the door). I'd especially like to make sure that the Top Five items on that list really reflect our five biggest priorities. Here's what's there right now:








  1. Pets 'poof' back into datapad occasionally. Seems more common in crowded regions, in battle, or right after dismounting a mount AGREE



  2. Many more creatures should spawn babies than currently are. Every creature under CL 70 should have at least a chance of spawning a baby AGREE


  3. Profession no longer has a niche in which it is particularly valuable. Melee players provide better tanking and damage-dealing, while Bio-Engineers sell better pets AGREE


  4. Pets that have been trained as Mounts will not follow their master It has gotten worse to where they will not even attack when stuck in "WILL NOT FOLLOW" mode. Worse still is they cannot be healed nor stored. I deleted my favorite mount last night because I was in a rush.


  5. Ongoing pathing problems (pets start moving very slowly or stop following altogether) AGREE





Number 4 seems kind of suspect to me. Are there still people experiencing #4 in-game (I don't believe I have been for a while)? Is there anything in the rest of the list that deserves to be up here instead? How does the ordering feel?


Folks have suggested new issues/requests in theprevious thread, and I'd like to look at folding them into the list. Here's the rest of the existing issues:


















  1. The special attacks "Poison," "Disease," and "Knockdown" do not work with the specialattack1 and specialattack2 training commands. The useranged training command switches pets to Ranged Attack mode, but cannot switch them back to melee. And idea I had to make CH mean something is the /commandline for these commands. They should cease being trainable because this allows Non-CH access to CH perks. Instead they should work more like /bodyshot1 or /bodyshot2.



  2. Some pets run away when they come under attack in battle (more common with some body types than others). May be related to creatures having different ‘ideal attack ranges’ that they constant try to move to. This should also include pets run when dizzied. I am sure some other state moves apply but this one sticks out because I live on Dant and kill Pikets in large quantities.


  3. Remove pet vitality loss from factional deaths, to be consistent with normal item decay rules I have this theory that anything crafted should be better but degrade with use. Wild pets while not optimal for certain scenarios should not decay and thus be more viable in content. Making free better on one hand but making bought better on another.


  4. The /tellpet command sometimes will not work for players. This generally happens in isolated episodes for players, both preceeded and followed by tellpet working perfectly with the exact same pets and commands. I have more problems with this being the case against AI NPC's.


  5. Creature Handling is not an effective tool at all against a PvP-oriented combat professional. A skilled Creature Handler needs to become more of a threat as part of the Big Combat Rebalance I have no solution for this of yet, and currently am "happily" waiting for the combat rebalance. /wink Garva


  6. Mounts need to be valuable when compared to vehicles. Current mount advantages are not enough. Suggestions include improved mounted combat, improved mount speed/gallop, improved mount selection (flying mounts?) AGREE and when I have more time will link mount thread.


  7. No perceived advantage to using one’s Taming skills instead of just buying Bio-Engineered pets. Money is easy enough to acquire that "worse but free" does not feel very rewarding to Tamers. See my solution for Issue 8.


  8. Ability to drop stored pets off either in a regular house or a specialized 'stable' structure Give MCH the option to redeed pets or in case of wild make deed.


  9. Pet-calling delay of any length is not needed, as specific examples of 'exploit' behavior haven't been produced. Particularly given the fact that creatures are the only "weapon" that cannot be "equipped" while already in combat AGREE all forms of exploits that we know about seem to have been fixed.


  10. Rancor does not seem as powerful as has been established by Star Wars continuity. Even the weakest rancor should be a high end predator that is feared by players Continuity went out at XMAS with the Holiday Holos.


  11. Pets need more variety in desired properties besides just Light Armor and Kinetic Resist. Varied damage types, armor piercing, and creature-unique "droid module" type functionality Agree


  12. Creature Handler "Epic Quest" (similar to RIS armor) with a valuable reward (i.e. unique pet, one-time use "tame adult" ability, etc) OR A CORRAL


  13. Some Creature Handlers feel they should be able to see a wild creature's Difficulty level without buying the Master Scout skill Agree


  14. Mount wearables/armor such as we have seen concept art for in online developer interviews AGREE


  15. Ability to carry items on mounts (using them as 'pack animals' as seen in the films) AGREE


  16. Multiple wild pets are not nearly as effective as one big one (reverse seems to be the case for BE pets) AGREE


  17. Ability to sell tame CH pets on vendor/bazaar See my solution for Issue 13


  18. XP rewards to successfully taming/training do not scale appropriately with creature difficulty (more XP should be awarded for taming/training more powerful creatures) Not sure this can be argued effectively since they are all green cons and once tamed are not agressive.


  19. CH-specific missions and content (i.e. 'Taming' missions) available from terminals and/or NPCs AGREE


  20. Ability to train pets through the commandline (i.e. /train followme Follow) I expect to see this (did the no looping fix go in)


  21. More variety in creatures/pets in the wild. Different colors, slightly different capabilities, etc within a species Can we get ID's to groom our pets???????


  22. More new pet commands/tricks See useful pet commands.






28. NERF NON-CH PETS. In fact, remove them from the game. It gives them free checkers (/wink TH).


29. Make Master Creature Handler mean something. /transfer is really bogus. A couple extra pets stored. One additional pet out is useless when there are few viable duplet combos let alone a triplet.


30. Give hand held device (chair, whip, cattle prod) that give the CH a certain percentage boost per blocks of CH filled. Allowing us to be incrementally better without relying on a second profession and forever ending any debate over combat or support.


31. Make Train As Mount delevel the selected mob to 0 or 1 so the CH can still use 2 other mounts. Do not let mount be trained attack commands or special commands.



On a side note, can someone confirm a stealth fix/bug for me?


I was riding my now dead mount (see mount bug above) and I was able to heal my other creature with stims while mounted. This seems cool to me, not sure if it was intended or if I missed it in the Pulish notes along the way.





Sign for Hutt Faction here: Hutt Faction

Not against broad changes, just profession specific ones (read as CH) that go against what we've been told in the past.
(I hired Trayson as a ghost writer for a good tagline)
SkyPreacher1
Fri Sep 03, 2004 3:20 pm
#20

Pluto,

Healing pets while mounted has always worked for me. Healing me while mounted never works. I guess it's okay to jab your mount but the Devs maybe afraid we may kill ourselves. I am not sure.



....and then no matter how hard we get nerfed, we still keep CH because we are still some of the coolest characters on the game.

BOYCOTTING JUMP TO LIGHTSPEED UNTIL COMBAT BALANCE AND GCW REVAMP!
SWG: Quote: Grand moff Tarkin: The Jedi are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe. you my friend are all thats left of their religon. Except for the other 5000 over there...
Barafu
Fri Sep 03, 2004 3:52 pm
#21


My personal suggested list after publish 10.


Barafu's Top 5 Creature Handler Issues



1. Gameplay Improve our viability in PvP. This is a very complex issue, involving the combat system as a whole and the abilities and relative levels of all other professions, but deserves at least some hot fixes until the big combat revamp. No rational player wants CH to become overly powerful again but neither do we wish to remain under powered in PvP. Maybe do something with the 75% PvP reduction or maybe allow doctor buffs to last through storing.


2.Bug Fix the remaining broken specials -- knockdown, strong/med/weak poison, and strong/med/weak disease. Some people also complain that they can turn on ranged attacks for creatures but can't order them off.


3. Gameplay Reduce the delay for calling and storing pets. 15 seconds doesn't seem too long until you have to do for every creature (up to 4 if you are also calling a droid -- like say a harvesting droid) for every mission. If you're group hunting, by the time the 60 seconds passes to call everything out then much of the mission will have already been completed by your groupmates.


4. Gameplay Increase the desirability of mounts.This gives CH a greater role inthe game's society/economy and also would add to the Star Wars feel of the game. Suggestions to do this include upping the speedof some mounts to make them competitive withvehicles (maybe CH only mounts?), adding storage capacity to mounts, and/or adding more combat ability to mounts.


5. Bug Fix the remaing pet auto-storing problems. This happens very rarely to me and from reading the forums others also only experience it rarely these days. Nonetheless, this is still a serious problem when it happens since we are left without our animal protectors in potentially bad positions.


Further Issues



6.Bug Fix the pets standing on top of owners. I can't see a darn thing when I have my bantha out because he's always standing right on top of me. Just because we can order a work around using formations doesn't mean that we should have to. Have pets stay at reasonable 10m away when everyone is idle.


7. GameplayAllow us to sell our pets on vendors and on the bazaar. One reason that some may think this a bad idea (falsely in my opinion) is because this will allow CH to effectively circumvent the max stored pets limit. However, this isn't truly an issue, in my opinion, because CH cannot easily access these pets while hunting or fighting, thus keeping the max stored pet limit real while out in the "field". I mean if BEs can have 100 creatureswaiting to be bought on their vendors, why can't we? This could even make for an interesting economy -- customers would have the choice between statistically superior BE pets or already trained, perhaps more rare pets from CHs.


8. Gameplay Make the difference between the stats of BE pets and wild ones less stark. I think that BE pets ought to be, in general, slightly superior to wild ones -- otherwise there would be no reason to obtain BE pets. On the other hand, from my reading it seems that the only wild pet that has any combat superiority to BE ones is the Mantigrue screecher since it has plague strike. Perhaps more wild pets with unique specials should be included -- thus allowing BE pets to retain their edge with regards to normal combat stats, while giving wild pets a reason to be sought beyond simple rarity.




Barafu Firling: Galactic Traveler
Current Assignment: Investigation of Project Eclipse
Read about and join my adventures here
Rub me out at www.swghuntersguild.com
Sign the petition to add writable datapads
DaBudo2
Fri Sep 03, 2004 4:01 pm
#22

Besides agreeing with Aahkperkare that the rare spawn rate is a bit too rare, I want to add a couple of things I forgot to mention in earlier post.


- Increase max level of pets that MCH can call. What's the point of being able to call 3 creatures at the same time if the highest level can only be 23?

- As well, MCH should be able to tame up to and including CL 70 pets without needing a skill attachment.


Lets give some real advantages to being MCH.




------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. G. Marx

Pickaroon - MCH, Master Pistoleer, Elder Geek
BOTHEN! WOOHOO!
Wabit
Fri Sep 03, 2004 4:23 pm
#23






GnomeAd wrote:


I wouldn't say you're going to get flamed, but I will disagree with you. To use your own analogy of a shield, I can change my armor even while I'm in combat. Sure, it takes longer now, but it's still faster than swapping pets under the current system. I don't really see how this could be exploited in the PvE sense. I can see some people complaining about it during PvP though. The reason is that you could pull a pet as a surprise during or just before a duel.I still don't agree even this is anexploit however, since you can do the same thing under the current setup. Hide your rancor (or a BE durni even) and give him the attack command after the duel starts.


In short, I still don't see how this can be exploited. I should be able to swap my weapons and armor just like any other combat class. Perhaps we can sell the devs on shortening the timer. Make it equal to the new weapon switch timer and it would kinda eliminate our argument, but still keep a timer in place.








yes you can switch armor, but you are still taking damage yourself in the process... with being able to call pets like this, you can take no damage to yourself, wearing no just clothes and get a brand new 10k HAM shield... with 20 stored pets this could go on for quite awhile...


i guess that my thoughts are that with this there is really no danger to the CH as long as he has pets left

in his datapad



I can just see a "Wait for the Combat Revamp" and "Wait for the Smuggler Revamp" quote all rolled into one.
"Wait for the Smuggbat Revamp"
Smuggbat, I like that
GnomeAd
Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:29 pm
#24






Wabit wrote:



yes you can switch armor, but you are still taking damage yourself in the process... with being able to call pets like this, you can take no damage to yourself, wearing no just clothes and get a brand new 10k HAM shield... with 20 stored pets this could go on for quite awhile...


i guess that my thoughts are that with this there is really no danger to the CH as long as he has pets left

in his datapad




I would agree with you under the old system. Now, however, every mob has a chance to aggro you instead of your pet. Even under the scenario you present here, you're still not risk free. Think of it like a concealed rifleman. The chances at master are about the same as getting aggroed by your targets. Besides, while not really unbalancing us for PvE (based upon the new MOB AI above) it would allow for what some CHs have been wanting. A CH that doesn't require any other combat skills.

Wabit
Fri Sep 03, 2004 6:09 pm
#25






GnomeAd wrote:





I would agree with you under the old system. Now, however, every mob has a chance to aggro you instead of your pet. Even under the scenario you present here, you're still not risk free. Think of it like a concealed rifleman. The chances at master are about the same as getting aggroed by your targets. Besides, while not really unbalancing us for PvE (based upon the new MOB AI above) it would allow for what some CHs have been wanting. A CH that doesn't require any other combat skills.





ok, say i'm soloing a kryte with my pets...


send one pet in he pulls the agro, i then attack... the tank will forever keep the argo...


send the second pet in, when the first get low HAM...


peace out for a sec...


let the second pet pick up the agro...


call the firt one back, start attacking the kryte again, open the datapad, wait 60 secs to store the first pet...


peace out for a sec, store the first pet, pll the third pet out, start attacking...


if you do this correctly, it will take less than 5 secs for the entire sequence to be done... with HS3 at roughly 1k damage per hit... saves me 10k for waiting to call a new pet... and i still face virtully no risk to myself...



vert asked for the possible way for the 15 sec delay to be used as an exploit/grief... i've had csr's called on me for doing this with the 15 sec delay... if you get a a good BE to make you lvl 35 gurrecks (no pathing issues that i've found) with the only special attack being intimidate, no ranged attack... one pet can tank for around 45 to 120 secs (depends on when the intimidate sticks)...


for those of us that rememebr when we could call out pets without camps instantly... yes it was a great thing, but too easy to take advantage of...





I can just see a "Wait for the Combat Revamp" and "Wait for the Smuggler Revamp" quote all rolled into one.
"Wait for the Smuggbat Revamp"
Smuggbat, I like that
TheLoneBowler
Fri Sep 03, 2004 9:55 pm
#26

It is simple really.

Remove all delays in calling pets.

Do not allow a pet to be stored while in combat. Any tactics with this in place would be no different than the bleed/burn/disease and heal methods of other professions.

Message Edited by TheLoneBowler on 09-03-2004 10:59 PM



Shree Lanka
7777Spec-Ops Arcas Legion8888
MasterY Medic Keeping SOAL Alive
"I tried being reasonable. I didn't like it."


Page 2 of 4