Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Thunderhearts own words about the CH Nerf. (Also called The Great Lie)
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] he lasted just 8 seconds less then my guild mate with the uber template...
The skill tree distribution is well done. There might be one or two minor points, but it spreads the power throughout it. It does prevent power-dabblers abusing the tree although it is not what caused them to leave the profession.
What did cause them to leave, and what really hurt the true handlers, was the creature nerf in preparation for the combat balance. Yet you fail to focus on that at all. Our relative power level and the bugs are our main issues. The skill tree distribution isn't.
There were a few promises such as the baby spawns that you are correct about though.
I stand corrected. But one month of mounts versus 6 months of useless mounts does not equate fun for CH. I feel you and I can likely agree upon this part.
Jodo,
Yeah, you are right the Devs kept all the Master CH power. Pet armor and hams did not change. And I can still call 3 GSP. And resistances rock still. And nothing has changed. We at ebst before the creature nerf were never godlike. You are correct in one thing the dabblers are gone. I can and will find you quotes that this is a dabbler game. That a pet is SUPPOSED to be equal to having another player with you. CH has no defenses in the game. The pets were supposed to be that defense. Now we are more vulnerable than a dancer. You and I are not playing the same game. That is why I am playing COH and waiting for my accounts to die off.
Look I will be the first to admit the Devs have done some pretty dumb things to this game, and will happily join in some Dev bashing when it's deserved, but you have to get your facts straight. Like I said I was a Master CH when this patch came out and nothing really changed for me. I am just as powerful now as I was before the patch. The difference is players have learned to def stack, and buffs and armor are out of control, which makes pets useless. The patch really didn't change anything except to get rid of dabblers. That's all it really did.
P9M wrote:
"Oh my…sir, he says there are several creatures approaching" Pt.
Thunderheart wrote:
Players have seen a rise in pet usage over the past few weeks because obviously, having a pet in a Massively Multiplayer game has a fantastic advantage. Players with pets essentially get their own private MOBs (Mobile Object) to fight with them and for them. It's a player's own personal tank and it's a boost to damage and attack, a blocker for attackers and the list of advantages go on. With that being said, that's all fun stuff, so we want to keep it in and keep it fun, but make it balanced. If you are curious, there is an easy way to test how imbalanced this can get. If a player and their pet can do a whole lot of things that a two players CAN'T do, then something is wrong. Otherwise, pets become replacements for multiple players. Go out with your friends who are Creature Handlers or who have really powerful pets and play the differences with them.
I guess TKA tanking Rancors is Ok and fun according to the Devs, Commando? BH? Pistoleer? Rifleman? JEDI????
Thanks for showing us were we really stood CH. LIE 1 Devs 0
You obviously didn't read that one close enough: They didn't want your pet to equal another player. You and your pet shouldn't equal you and another player. So actually this isn't a lie. It's exactly what they said.
Another issue that is being addressed is that Non-Creature Handlers have pets that are of such level and ability that it is a free pass into higher level content. Those two advantages alone are an invitation for every player to have pets. In any MMO, that invitation passes by word-of-mouth like yelling "fire" in a crowded theater and it cause a stampede.
Can we say UBER BE pets now allow the ex-dabblers to use no skill points to accomplish the same? LIE 2 Devs 0
Again reading comprehsnsion is a little low: He is saying that Non-CH pets are too powerful and needs to be fixed.
These are great advantages to have and a lot of players are leveraging these advantages (a huge number actually). Now, in the rush to claim this glorious, imbalanced prize, players are hitting the Creature Handler Skill tree pretty hard. Players are smart and they talk to each other and what's happened is that players are exploiting the Creature Handler Skill Tree by taking ONLY the left-most two columns to get the pets and that's it. So for the cost of two skill trees, players are getting full pet access. That bargain is too good to be true and it demeans the CH profession because they work through the whole tree without being rewarded much of an advantage.
Yeah players are smart. They do not use skill points now. No one dabbles CH period. No skill points useage, yep you showed them dabblers. LIE 3 Devs 0
So you were okay that someone could spend 34 points on CH and be just as effective as someone who spent the 63 points to master it. That was all right with you?
Let me be clear here: it is not the Creature Handler Profession that is over-powered per se. It is the Creature Handler “dabblers” that are using two specific skill trees (in conjunction with out of balance creatures) to give over-powered boosts to other professions.
Oh boy. We CH were not the problem. But you broke us anyway. LIE 4 Devs 0
Again read above. Don't consider making dabblers less powerful than masters breaking anything.
The goal of the change to the CH profession is the idea of reserving power to players who _truly_ master being a creature handler and make it so they have to really invest in all the skill boxes while reducing the power of "dabblers" and people spending the bare minimum to get the advantages of having powerful pets.
Yeah we were but out on the reservation alright. Everyone's power got reduced. LIE 5 Devs 0
Again the whole dabblers as good as masters shouldn't happen, you appearantly disagree with this. I was a Master CH when this patch came out and didn't really notice the difference except that GSP's and GW's got a higher CL so I couldn't call 2 GSP's and a GW anymore.
So here are the proposed changes.
There are only three new behaviors that have been added at this point: useSpecial1, useSpecial2 and useRanged. This way, you can order a creature with a ranged attack to use his ranged attack, or order them to use the special attack on-command. This makes things simpler and easier to use and a lot more fun.
Works very sporadically even as a master. Yeah there is a lot of fun in counting on a pet to not work.
LIE 6 Devs 0
You did get this one right. This ability is still pretty broken.
With all of these changes, that leaves an interesting challenge on the table: CHs currently don't take on the full risk of a combat encounter like other combat classes do. CHs don't have to deal with taking damage or fending off monsters since the monster is engaged by the creature like other combat classes have to deal with.
Because of this, one of the concerns is that while this plan does bring CHs down a bit, it doesn't necessarily put them on equal footing with the other combat classes. The big question is why would a player not be a CH if they wanted the most offensive power possible?
Here is what we're going to do to address that: NPCs and creatures will get just a tiny bit smarter, and will realize that when you send a pet to attack them, _you_ are attacking them. This doesn't mean that they will instantly and always ignore your pet and head straight for you, but they won't just completely ignore you, either. And if they kill your pet, they'll definitely be attacking you next.
Also, if you heal a pet that is fighting something else, that other creature will "see" it and might choose to respond to that action by attacking you. Probably not a very big chance of that happening, but they won't just completely ignore you as they do now.
Yep. This really made sense. Pets run in combat. Pets got nerfed. And we needed additional agro. Smart move Devs, I see the fun in that. LIE 7 Devs 0
Right you want the power of a pistoleer, TKM and other combat professions but you don't want the risk they take. That sounds fair and balanced???
On the upside, Creature Handlers can train Mounts. Player mounts have been added and can now ride Bols, Brackasets, Kaadu, Carrion Spats, Dewbacks, and Falumpasets. To get a mount, mounts must be your pet AND trained as a mount. Creature Handlers will be training the mounts and players can either buy them as trained mounts or players with pets can take their pets to a Creature Handler (with the correct skill) to be trained as a mount. Bio Engineers can create mountable pets but can't automatically train them unless they have Creature Handler skills.
Oh sweet mounts should be cool. Oh you meant the mounts were going to be so pathetic for practical use that no one would want them. LIE 8 Devs 0
Are we playing the same game?!?! When this was written vehicles weren't even around and people were charging outlandish sums for fully grown and trained mounts. You're taking something written months ago and taking it totally out of context. When this patch hit EVERYONE wanted a mount.
Another benefit to all of this is that players will be seeing more types of babies spawning. Before, the number of baby spawns was limited due to balance issues and now we can open that up. In addition to making more types of babies spawn, we're also going to add "rare" baby types that spawn very infrequently. We are also increasing the number of stored pets for master-creature handlers.
We got stored pets increased. YAH!! I will give partial credit for this one, because no one has really seen an increased amount of pets. LIE 8.5 Devs .5
Umm actually almost every CH in the game has. They have made more creatures spwan babies. If there were 200 creatures that were tamable (made up numbers) before after this patch there were 250, hence the more types of babies spawning.
In summary, the Creature Handler Profession has been changed to bring it into better balance with the rest of the professions, it is simpler to use and more equitable for the players who are Creature Handlers. People who are not Creature Handlers don't get all the benefits of the profession by climbing an uneven skill tree.
Yanno. This would have been a great idea if you only placed the additional pet levels through different trees. Of course, we all know you did not and thusly shafted the CH. LIE 9.5 Devs .5
Again we must be playing different games. In mine the CH profession has increase pet levels in most of the boxes in all of the trees.
With that being said, Creature Handling is the most popular profession so these changes were considered with great effort to keeping things fun to play and keeping them balanced in a Massively Multiplayer World.
Yeah you considered everything. You considered you were lying to us the whole time you parroted the now infamous combat rebalance. We should hit a year soon before it happens. LOL. I would be very suprised if any of you make it to work on time with these great time telling skills. LIE 10.5 Devs .5
See everything I've written above.
We hope you like the changes and I look forward to hearing your input.
We did not enjoy the changes. And of course you did not like our input. You do not even care that we give input. You have not shown your face on the CH boards since you destroyed us. That is cool. LIE 11.5 Devs .5
Please speak for yourself, I like the way CH is now.
In the end, this is where the Veteran CH's stand. Still waiting. Having been lied to by TH. None of the other Devs take any blame for this act. Excusing themselves with some other hot project. Nothing should be hotter than the faces of those who perpetuated and participated in this lie. TH since you must take all the heat maybe these other clowns should give you their paychecks. They have done nothing to help you or help the game in general.
Again speak for yourself, I'm a veteran CH and I don't stand in the same place as you.
I dare a RED Name to prove me wrong. Of course they cannot because it was all lies to begin with. Nothing but nothing will change the fact they crippled our fun. When the fan bois ask why we are so tweaked about this maybe they can review honestly at how much dmage the Devs did indeed do. Nothing short of reinstating CH to its original form should be acceptable to the Devs. WOW. If I lied this much to people I felt responsible to I would hope they all would leave me.
Don't think a red name needs to, I did a pretty good job on my own.
JodoKai wrote:
Like I said I was a Master CH when this patch came out and nothing really changed for me. I am just as powerful now as I was before the patch.
I can see your point. The fact is that Blunderheart did indead say, "The problem is not the Master CH". With this in mind why did the MCH's get hit? Why not take the +1 additional creatures and place them all in tiers at the 4th level and leave everything else alone? The fact is they did gut the Master CH. Something TH said they would not do.
In my neighborhood saying one thing and doing another makes you a liar. Saying one thing and doing another cancels out trust. Saying one thing and doing another leaves you with no friends. This is exactly why all four of my accounts are dying off. I have no trust in SOE anymore. Our friendship is finished.
Blunderheart did make those statements and since he represents the Dev team, they must have as well. He cannot say anything without permission and peer evaluation. I do feel sorry for BH, he is nothing more than a glorified secretary. RuinedSaber and JustGoofy are another story. They are the puppeteers. They have control. The combat rebalance happened some 4 months back. Oh no it did not. WOW. Saying something was to happen and it did not. Seems at least a false statement in my book. They did the damage that they wanted to do. That is a fact. It is also a fact they do not feel compelled to rectify anything. That is why the combat rebalance will in the end have taken a year to get done, if it ever gets done.
I am not saying that you are wrong in your opinions. Just you and I Budo see things differently.