Creature Handler Archive

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Anarrion wrote:

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Scoooter wrote:

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Seiryuu wrote:
I am strongly inclined to agree Pinning Attack does not exist, unfortunately it is difficult to prove the absence of something.

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You all are missing one other ability found on giant anglers and that is guarded stance L3 which blows a hole in your grouping theory.

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From Scooter's list of everything posted on the specials thread:

Giant Angler,Yavin,68,Cowering Vigilance,3
Giant Angler,Yavin,68,Defensive Agility,2
Giant Angler,Yavin,68,Pinning Attack,3
Giant Angler,Yavin,68,Thick Skin ,2

Do Giant Anglers have Guarded Stance L3? I'm not saying they do not, but the master list I use as a general guideline does not have it listed. If you have tamed hundreds of Giant Anglers, what about this list above is or is not correct?

It doesn't blow any grouping theories away though. Keep in mind the groupings were compiled mostly around the L1 specials where I have seen nothing to contridict it. The higher levels seem to follow the trend and swgcreatures will back this up (even the Giant Angler from this list at least). However, an important part of the theory says there may be undiscovered groups (of which I have yet to see any, but I certainly cannot rule it out).

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At least in the case of the Giant angler I can state that the only one not confirmed by my own tame is pinning, So yes it is correct. Giant Anglers have multiple levels of skills

the data I have does not support groupings past the L1 ability. My hope and guess is that when you get in L2 and L3 skills is that there is a true pattern.

We may have different groupings bu special level, or it could be CL based, and like I have shown we may have more double based groups as opposed to tripple.

I do not thing we have enough L2 and L3 data to call the grouping thory supported.

What we need is for EVERYONE to keep posting to the pet specials thread so we can confirm or tweak the grouping model.

We still have many L3 skills not found(or at least not reported) such as intimidate, hamstring, fleet, knockdown, eye gouge, and staggering, we also have pinning reported but not confirmed

Another anomoly is the Mature reptillian flier where 3 skills have been found (un like the other rept fliers) and it does not include intimidate

Mature Reptillian Flier,Dathomir,69,Aggression,3
Mature Reptillian Flier,Dathomir,69,Frenzied Blitz,3
Mature Reptillian Flier,Dathomir,68,Self Sacrifice,3

With aggression and self sac according to the groups it should have intimidate. I personally have confirmed these in the mature flier myself.

Lots of anomolies

Message Edited by Scoooter on 09-08-2005 01:46 PM

Message Edited by Scoooter on 09-08-2005 01:47 PM

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Has Frenzied Blitz L3 on a Mature Reptillian Flier been confirmed? I just searched the entire Pet Specials thread and only saw it in Scooter's posts. Not sure if you're saying you (Scooter) confirmed Frenzied Blitz or youjust confirmed the other two. Perhaps Mature Reptillian Fliers can only have Aggression or Self-Sacrifice.

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I have confirmed all 3, I found it very wierd when I made the tame myself of frenzied blitz

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Seiryuu wrote:
I understand that most pets don't work exactly like the Queen, however we don't know for sure how the devs implemented them and this is the closest example I have. They could be filling similar slots, or new hidden ones. The "meleeattack1" might be the new specials as it showed up with Publish 21 as far as I am aware.

My basic point was that there is too much we don't know and even suggesting where to look for Pinning Attack is a stab in the dark.

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Meleeattack is not a new special, it is in ALL creatures. Ask a ranger to get you the screenshots, you will see it in All creatures.

It's like our basic attack in brawler and marksman. I have not seen one single creature without this listed as special one (or two if they have the AreaAttack). As far as I understand it, if a creature doesn't have this meleeattack, they can't do any damage.

The AreaComboAttack which you find in krayts, gorax, ackley, kliknik Queen and the Bloodseeker mite, is a generic special attack which lands the three states as previously mentioned. They are in addition to any trainable innates you might find with a pet (bloodseeker mite queen).

Ideally SWGCreatures need to list the specials into two different categories, otherwise the attack types will just get confused

Innates and Special attacks

Innates being the abilities that CH can learn and train, one thing which people need to bear in mind is innate abilities are not always attacks as such, i.e. thick skin, aggression

Special attacks are just that, attack modes. Melee attack is the very basic attack mode of all creatures (which all creatures have), Area Attack (creatures like the Bull rancor, Stoneskin Hanadak, Arachne Hatchling etc), Area Combo (Krayts, Ackley, Gorax, Certain types of Kimogolas etc etc)

As for Pinning attack, I personally believed this was removed for the reason if it roots like the majority of player roots, i.e. breaks on damage it is pointless to have. Cause the moment you pin attack someone, you need to tell your pet to stop attacking for that root to maintain effect. Otherwise your pet would just break that root in the following attack. Pretty pointless ability if you ask me if it works this way.

If it works like the pistoleer root, which holds for a few seconds even after damage, it is IMO too overpowered, unless there is an added invisible cooldown timer to prevent repeated spam of Pinning attack.

That's my logic to why it doesn't exist. From the current mechanics of the game specials, it makes no sense to have a root which breaks the moment you land it.

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Drashk wrote:

There is another possiblity...

Pinning Attack can only be found on Mustafar.

I'm not saying that this is what is going to happen, but it is a possiblity, since Mustafar will have new tamables.

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Pinning attack:This attack melts you into the pavement holding you there for unknown time.
Combat log: Mustafrian Charizard uses Pinning Attack on Ash for 100 points of Heat Damage. melting his shoes into the earth causing Ash to become immobile.
Ash uses Blastoise to spray Charizard down causing Charizard to blow smoke on his next hit.




Sorry I could not resist the Pokemon reference.
/hangshead low
/pretends to have cloak in the corner

everyone thinks it is the giant angler that has pinning attack. the post that was made was a fake here is the post Clicky

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Ralfire wrote:
everyone thinks it is the giant angler that has pinning attack. the post that was made was a fake here is the post Clicky

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LOL no it wasnt that post.

The person who made that post made it a week or 2 later because it had not been confirmed as a joke

However it is stil not confirmed

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Seiryuu wrote:
It's possible, but as we have no solid confirmations even guessing is difficult.

From the data entered on swgcreatures, the Giant Angler follows the Cowering Vigilance / Defensive Agility / Thick Skin grouping. (See this thread for details on special grouping.)

If the special grouping theory holds true and giant anglers really do give Pinning Attack L3, then it seems pets can have two sets of groups. A Ranger looking at the Bark Mite Queen does see three types of specials (Area, Combo, and meleeattack1 I believe), so it is possible. Until we see one for sure, we just cannot know and predicting what else might have it is nearly impossible.

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Seiryuu wrote:
I am strongly inclined to agree Pinning Attack does not exist, unfortunately it is difficult to prove the absence of something.

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You all are missing one other ability found on giant anglers and that is guarded stance L3 which blows a hole in your grouping theory.

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From Scooter's list of everything posted on the specials thread:

Giant Angler,Yavin,68,Cowering Vigilance,3
Giant Angler,Yavin,68,Defensive Agility,2
Giant Angler,Yavin,68,Pinning Attack,3
Giant Angler,Yavin,68,Thick Skin ,2

Do Giant Anglers have Guarded Stance L3? I'm not saying they do not, but the master list I use as a general guideline does not have it listed. If you have tamed hundreds of Giant Anglers, what about this list above is or is not correct?

It doesn't blow any grouping theories away though. Keep in mind the groupings were compiled mostly around the L1 specials where I have seen nothing to contridict it. The higher levels seem to follow the trend and swgcreatures will back this up (even the Giant Angler from this list at least). However, an important part of the theory says there may be undiscovered groups (of which I have yet to see any, but I certainly cannot rule it out).

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Message Edited by Scoooter on 09-08-2005 01:46 PM

Message Edited by Scoooter on 09-08-2005 01:47 PM

The giant angler has Guarded stance L3 I got two in my datapad that I am keeping for tradeing purposes.

One of the interesting things about roots in general is that just after the CU went live, people were complaining about how overpowered mobs were in PvE, and Tiggs came out and said "use a root to stop the mob and then kill it" or words to that effect.

THEN the devs decided roots were too powerful. As the were working just after the CU went live was obviously the way it was intended, but it became obvious that the devs hadn't thought out how it would be used by players. They never do, so they have to backtrack. The entire CU process was badly flawed in this way; the sandbox group never got to see the CU on a server until the open beta went live, which is one reason why a number of of alpha testers left the game in utter disgust. Because the alpha testers would have quickly discovered how badly this was imbalancing and the last thing the morons in suits at SWG wanted was that sort of thing to happen and potentially derail their marketing schedule, which is more important than the long term health of the game.

The entire idea of the alpha sandbox was to get player input into the development process early to forestall having to to go through the entire "nerf after it goes live" syndrome which ultimately gave us the spectacle of pub 22 and the stealth group XP nerf from hell that resulted in thousands of account cancellations in a matter of days, and seems to have lead to the replacement of Dallas Dickenson as producer of SWG.

So, yes, the pinning attack seems, like nearly every other root, to have gone by the wayside. The most powerful roots in the game break upon damage now because the devs didn't think it through and didn't let players actually use it early, the devs are not nearly as clever as players can be, they're too much straightjacketed by their "intentions" to see what players will do with things. We're seeing that now in CH with the killing zone approach to learning specials, obviously not what the devs intended, but players will find a way to defeat the dev's attempts to prolong profession grinds every time.

The developers not only underestimate what the players can do, they simply cannot fathom what players wll do to get around all attempts to prolong the tedium of the profession grinds.

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Ralfire wrote:
everyone thinks it is the giant angler that has pinning attack. the post that was made was a fake here is the post Clicky

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Woah! I don't want credit for creating the giant angler pinning attack hoax. Someone started that rumor long before I made those doctored screenshots.