Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Fan Fest Scout/Ranger/CH Forum Notes
Hec
Tue Jun 08, 2004 10:19 am
#14
Helle everyone. I am a Master Ranger at Sunrunner and i love being one. I was present at the forum in FF and this is some of what i understood.
Ranger is suppose to be a hunter of creatures and BH a hunter of humanoids. So Ranger will never get any kind of bunus vs other players. But greenmarine does likes the idea of Rangers have some kind of combat bonus vs all creatures, including pets.
Greenmarine also likes the idea of Rangers being able to place traps on the floor that you woul put some bait and leave it there and come the next day and picked up the resource you were harvesting for. This will use a lot just like harvesters and instead of energy will use bait in form of meat or seeds depending on what you want to harvest. I think this will be a very good idea and will give us an edge on the resources market.
He also talked about /conceal working on PvP and he said that at the moment they do not have the tecnology to make it work, but as the technoogy improves may be an option.
He did say that Rangers were on the back of the list to change, fix or improve and that we will not see any changes for a long time.
Btw, Greenamarine did said that he would like to see rangers get their elephant gun or buffalo rifle. A gun that is very powerfull vs. creaturs. but then again, that Greenmarine likes this ideas does not mean they are in the dev's to do list.
Message Edited by Hec on 06-08-2004 11:06 AM
SioBabble
Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:53 am
#15
DeltaXi65 wrote:
Gang,
My Second Question: What's the point of forage? Why was it implemented?
A: Forage was an ability that was designed as a means to make Scouting the environment fun and give the Scouts a reason to do it. There were specific zones on each server that were designed to be foragable. There was also a specific "uber loot" table that was created to hold the cool stuff that was supposed to be implemented to go along with the random foods and bait that you get when foraging. However, there wasn't time to complete the system. Down the road, this may be something that can be reviewed and possibly reimplemented if there is a large request for it.
Funny note: Many Scouts have asked what the deal was with the "forage bug" - yousometimes get a "you succesfully forage an item but there was insufficient space in the inventory" system message when foraging. I was finally able to get the answer out of Green:This is the result of a succesful "uber loot" roll. BUT there is only one item of uber loot that was added to the loot table to test it - a huge wedding cake. However, the wedding cake was coded under the old inventory system, where instead of each item taking up one "slot" in the inventory, each item had a "volume". This has since been removed, with each item having a volume of one slot. Because of this, the wedding cake takes up something like 110 slots- much larger than anyone's inventory, so you can never pick it up! Maybe I'm just weird, but the whole idea of foraging a large wedding cake makes me laugh.
Delta,
I don't know about you, but I'm really getting tired of the excuse (and it is an excuse) offered for uberforage not working. Holo was asking us in beta to check this out, it was reported as malfunctioning, and they just forgot about it, basically after it was decided to go gold prematurely because the suits wanted their ROI now.
It's like all the skill ehancement attachments that boost skills that have not beein in the game since beta; the grenadier's belt RECENTLY introduced into the game as part of the Jabba park being the most egregious example of these guys violating a rule pounded into my head in ROTC advanced camp: attention to detail.
It's part of a general air of sloppiness with SWG that if I were associated with the project as a paid participant I would find profoundly embarassing.
DeltaXi65
Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:04 pm
#16
Sio,
The problem is simply the pressures of making a video game.
There was a massive substantial investment in this game, and I'm sure that the Devs were under major, major pressure to launch the game when it was launched. Some items were simply not finished on time, but the Devs recognized that the good thing about an MMO was that it is constantly changing, so the game DOESN'T have to be perfect when it's shipped. There's an expectation that the game will improve over time.
I learned over the weekend that SWG has JUST broken even.That floors me, considering the reports that there are between 1500-2000 active players per server and over 250,000 units have been sold.
The Devs had more latitude on fixing the game later, so that's what they did. I don't hold it against them. If I were SOE or LucasArts and had ponied up millions in development costs, after three years...yeah, I'd want to start to see a return on my investment.
B
AgonThalia
Tue Jun 08, 2004 2:10 pm
#17
Thanks again Delta...
after reading the reports of fan fest, maybe going next year might be an option for me to visit my old stomping grounds in CA.
after reading the reports of fan fest, maybe going next year might be an option for me to visit my old stomping grounds in CA.
Vorpaks
Tue Jun 08, 2004 3:35 pm
#18
Hec wrote:He did say that Rangers were on the back of the list to change, fix or improve and that we will not see any changes for a long time.06-08-2004 11:06 AM
Holocron wrote (last August):
(edited for length, my comments in bold)
1. We aren't unique.
Each skill tree is being adjusted to be more interesting and unique.
Wayfaring
/conceal. Implemented but not so useful
It is also possible that the rescue command will be beefed up and moved to the Wayfaring tree (it doesn't really fit in trapping). Bugs with rescue are being fixed as well.
Frontiering Not implemented
The most important change to Frontiering will be the introduction of special camps. These camps will not operate like a normal rest camp. The Ranger's "Hunting Blind" will give him special bonuses to attracting and hunting creatures as long as he stays within it. Other special camps with unique functionality are being designed.
Field Bioscience --> Tracking
/scanarea Not implemented
/track Implemented
Advanced Trapping Not implemented
Heavy Claw Trap
Lure
Tripwire
When Do We Get It
I hope to have the implementation of these new features wrapped up soon, but since the Ranger is getting a lot of new functionality to make up for a weak initial skill set, it may take a bit longer to get these features to you. The new traps and wayfaring changes are very close to being ready to go, with the tracking and camps to follow some time after.
Most of the other concerns in the Ranger correspondent report are covered in the Scout response, so go check that out. The key thing for Rangers is the new functionality that should make them a more unique and interesting profession.
-Raph Koster
Chief Creative Officer,
Sony Online Entertainment
/sigh
Then again, I've always felt that the fun you have in a game is fun that you bring to it. Or in this case, the fun we bring to it. Thank you all for making this profession fun. Even with no enhancements in sight, I am still enjoying the heck out of Ranger. You are the fun.
Vertexon
Tue Jun 08, 2004 7:14 pm
#19
There was a brief discussion with a few of the Devs on this today, and Jeff Freeman said I could pass along the following clarifications:
Pets not following, autostoring, etc.: That's gotten better and will continue to get better until (we hope) it just almost never happens. It's mostly a multiserver issue.
Traps on player pets: CH in pvp needs to be re-evaluated altogether, and this is part of that. Step one would be to make CHs viable in PvP. Step *two* would be to introduce counter-measures to pets in pvp.
Terrain negotiation while mounted: Mounts vs. vehicles needs to be re-evaluated and this is part of that. Otherwise, we're pretty much all for it.
Pet levels:One majorlyfun part of the CH professions was searching planets for cool pets. That needs to come back.
Hakai
Tue Jun 08, 2004 7:37 pm
#20
Seiryuu wrote:
No monkey making questions though?
EGHAD!!!!IF only one of us was there to mention it!!!!
doh!
Seiryuu
Tue Jun 08, 2004 7:59 pm
#21
I learned over the weekend that SWG has JUST broken even.
Here is the $64,000 dollar question - If they had delayed it a little longer and focused on getting the basic foundation working so that people would not have given up in disgust, would they have broken even sooner?
I cannot truely answer that one way or the other. I do know you cannot delay a game indefinately. I do know they lost a lot of people over such things. Maybe people that would have left for other reasons on their own, maybe not. My instinct tells me they shot themselves in the foot.
We are starting to see a change in that, which I am very happy about. I would still like to see them hire a few junior programmers whose sole function is to fix bugs. Not develop or add content, just fix bugs, even if they are the little annoying ones like forage. People would be amazed at how much happier they are when all the little niggling problems are gone. (You won't notice it unless someone points it out, but it really changes the mood.)
Here is the $64,000 dollar question - If they had delayed it a little longer and focused on getting the basic foundation working so that people would not have given up in disgust, would they have broken even sooner?
I cannot truely answer that one way or the other. I do know you cannot delay a game indefinately. I do know they lost a lot of people over such things. Maybe people that would have left for other reasons on their own, maybe not. My instinct tells me they shot themselves in the foot.
We are starting to see a change in that, which I am very happy about. I would still like to see them hire a few junior programmers whose sole function is to fix bugs. Not develop or add content, just fix bugs, even if they are the little annoying ones like forage. People would be amazed at how much happier they are when all the little niggling problems are gone. (You won't notice it unless someone points it out, but it really changes the mood.)
DeltaXi65
Tue Jun 08, 2004 8:05 pm
#22
Seir,
I have to disagree with you. The basic foundation WAS working. The devil was in the details. The combat system, the chat system, the commodities system, everything that we NEEDED was in the game and working at the start. It was the little bugs (most of which aren't so little) that caused the problems.
And I think that most people who gave up over little bugs weren't in it for the long haul anyway.
Another thing that I learned over the weekend is simple - the things that we, from a common sense standpoint, think are the littlest bugs usually turn out to be things that are extremely hard to fix, for whatever reason.
Every Friday, the Devs are required to play the game for 3-4 hours. After that, they have a meeting where they discuss bugs and little annoyances that they didn't like. Then their task for the rest of the day is to fix those bugs. So they're doing it. It's an incremental process.
For what it's worth, most of my niggling problems are gone. I know they're working on the rest.
B
Calculus_Entropy
Wed Jun 09, 2004 5:51 am
#23
Thanks Delta...Good list with a bleak outlook on the Ranger profession.
taloncard
Wed Jun 09, 2004 6:05 am
#24
Translation:
They finally acknowledge they are aware of our problems /cheer!!!!
That is all I have ever asked of them a simple acknowledgement.
However it's on the back burner because of our recent attention (read nerf) and JTL /frown
Phenix1050
Wed Jun 09, 2004 7:44 am
#25
Thanks for the info Delta.
The question remains though: will there ever be any Improved Scout Monkeys.
if so, shouldn't the Rangers get Improved Ranger Gorillas, since we ARE the natural evolution of scouts, and WE should have skills beter than those of silly scouts.
It is easier to comunicate tongue-in-cheek when you are typing, just so you know.
Seiryuu
Wed Jun 09, 2004 9:35 am
#26
Maybe because I am a programmer, have worked on games before (not to this scale admittadly), and have a long interest in game design our visions of working are different. To me working is when there are no bugs. Playing with work-arounds is not working to me.
I suppose that is semantics and the degree of problems you are willing to put up with. I am critical of bugs, even the little ones, because I am with my own programming. I forgive letting bugs happen because they are unavoidable (I have made some doozies), but I still feel attention should be given to correcting them promptly.
(That does not mean I am better. I simply have an eye for noticing these things since I am trained to look for bugs. As a customer, that is where I want attention focused. Since I cannot play with the code, all I can do is point out the flaws...)
I will let you in on a secret. It is not that the bugs are hard to track down in many cases, it is that they are hard to track down in a reasonable amount of time. When your job requires you do be adding new content/code constantly, there is not time to do a solid fix because it often requires rewritting code, searching for what it effects and testing it thoroughly.
You can either add new stuff or spend time fixing the existing stuff. For the longest while they chose to focus on adding stuff. Now they are seriously tackling fixing stuff, but there is still a fair bit of new content being added with it.
I would prefer them to focus a bit more on the fixing and a little less on the content, but that is as much a business decision as a time management one. That is why I suggest a few junior programmers to tackle bugs only. They are cheap labor. It gives a few people that want a way to break into the business a great head start. The experienced devs are freed to do what Gary needs them to do. We get more bug fixes to make the game that much better. And in a few short months you have a few programmers that have dealt with so many systems that they know the game inside and out and can be set to making new content because most of those small bugs are gone. Everyone wins.
I suppose that is semantics and the degree of problems you are willing to put up with. I am critical of bugs, even the little ones, because I am with my own programming. I forgive letting bugs happen because they are unavoidable (I have made some doozies), but I still feel attention should be given to correcting them promptly.
(That does not mean I am better. I simply have an eye for noticing these things since I am trained to look for bugs. As a customer, that is where I want attention focused. Since I cannot play with the code, all I can do is point out the flaws...)
I will let you in on a secret. It is not that the bugs are hard to track down in many cases, it is that they are hard to track down in a reasonable amount of time. When your job requires you do be adding new content/code constantly, there is not time to do a solid fix because it often requires rewritting code, searching for what it effects and testing it thoroughly.
You can either add new stuff or spend time fixing the existing stuff. For the longest while they chose to focus on adding stuff. Now they are seriously tackling fixing stuff, but there is still a fair bit of new content being added with it.
I would prefer them to focus a bit more on the fixing and a little less on the content, but that is as much a business decision as a time management one. That is why I suggest a few junior programmers to tackle bugs only. They are cheap labor. It gives a few people that want a way to break into the business a great head start. The experienced devs are freed to do what Gary needs them to do. We get more bug fixes to make the game that much better. And in a few short months you have a few programmers that have dealt with so many systems that they know the game inside and out and can be set to making new content because most of those small bugs are gone. Everyone wins.