Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Change in Plans for Pet Calling Restrictions in Publish 7
misfitd0g
Wed Feb 25, 2004 3:14 pm
#14
good job vert 
you are the lifelifeline of all the creature handlers ..keep up the awesome work
weeloo- master ch - sunrunner
SioBabble
Wed Feb 25, 2004 3:19 pm
#15
WTS wrote:
i recall holocron once saying that they don't want CH to be a 'summoning' class... like a wizard or necromancer. Calling a pet in swg should be more akin to whistling to your dog and having it run out of the bushes to where you are. It shouldn't be like that famous game by nintendo or like a mage calling a water elemental. from a pure gameplay/balance point of view, i don't see any reason for the 30 second delay or for needing to call a camp. but from a roleplay point of view i can see why it is important.
Oh, so we're back to the terrible, evil magic pocket argument.
This is lame, because EVERYTHING IN THIS GAME IS SUMMONED FROM A MAGIC POCKET.
Why is it that only CHs have to wait? Why don't TKAs wait for vibro knucklers? Why don't commandos wait for flame throwers? Why don't pistoleers wait for their FWGs and their composite armor?Why don't Jedi wait for light sabers? Why don't chefs wait for their food and chemical crafting tools?
Tharro
Wed Feb 25, 2004 3:31 pm
#16
I think we can live with that, not much changes form the last patch expect you can call everywhere now and wait 30 sec if you're not at a camp or city. I believe on some servers it is difficult to find a place valid for a camp, you can search long for one if it is crowded with buildings. Maybe to solve this they have 2 choices.
1: player buildings, except the resource extractors can only be build in a vicinity of a player city.
2: take away the timer at places you can't build a camp, except if is near a lair.
And for the running pets, i can only say this: i don't had the problem anymore. And for the auto-store i had the feeling it happens more often now.
)
WTS
Wed Feb 25, 2004 3:36 pm
#17
SioBabble wrote:Oh, so we're back to the terrible, evil magic pocket argument.
This is lame, because EVERYTHING IN THIS GAME IS SUMMONED FROM A MAGIC POCKET.
Why is it that only CHs have to wait? Why don't TKAs wait for vibro knucklers? Why don't commandos wait for flame throwers? Why don't pistoleers wait for their FWGs and their composite armor? Why don't Jedi wait for light sabers? Why don't chefs wait for their food and chemical crafting tools?
you'll get no argument from me about that. why does that metal bikini take 60 units of hide, 3 synthetic clothes and lots of fiberplast, while that heavy jacket made by an artisan only takes 30 units of resources total?
my main point is that we seem to only be focused on gameplay reasons for why things work they way they do. i'm suggesting there might be other reasons such as immersion and roleplaying. having a pet that's not the equivalent of a water elemental has to have something to make it distinct. unfortunately in the case of swg, it is the 'inconvenience' of having to wait 30 seconds or calling a camp.
Seiryuu
Wed Feb 25, 2004 4:10 pm
#18
This is a really hollow victory.
- It took over 20 pages of well reasoned arguments plus countless CH posts against their pathetic and outdated excuses, but we finally convinced the devs camps were unnecessary. Good job, we actually got them to see reason.
- So they pull out a system that is even worse than camps and insta-calling in the city.
- They announce we have camps again and people are happy!?!
Sorry, I feel hoodwinked, not like I have been given a gift.
- It took over 20 pages of well reasoned arguments plus countless CH posts against their pathetic and outdated excuses, but we finally convinced the devs camps were unnecessary. Good job, we actually got them to see reason.
- So they pull out a system that is even worse than camps and insta-calling in the city.
- They announce we have camps again and people are happy!?!
Sorry, I feel hoodwinked, not like I have been given a gift.
SioBabble
Wed Feb 25, 2004 4:11 pm
#19
WTS wrote:
my main point is that we seem to only be focused on gameplay reasons for why things work they way they do. i'm suggesting there might be other reasons such as immersion and roleplaying. having a pet that's not the equivalent of a water elemental has to have something to make it distinct. unfortunately in the case of swg, it is the 'inconvenience' of having to wait 30 seconds or calling a camp.
Look, I have no problem with the RP immersion thing.
The instant they kill the macros for people donning full sets of armor, I'll be happy to wait 30 seconds for a pet to materialize
We both know full well that I'll never have to wait for the pet with that condition attached. It would drive the non-RP powergamers absolutely bonkers.
Ekhben
Wed Feb 25, 2004 5:02 pm
#20
All Vertexon's campaigning on our behalf, the thousands of posts, the logical deconstruction of the 'reasons' given, and we're ... back where we started!
There's a technique you can use to quiet a situation people are unhappy with. First, you make it much worse. Then, you bring it back to what it was (or, to less than what it was, but not as bad as you HAD made it). At this point, you're 'willing to compromise' and 'working with you.' Anyone who points out that nothing's changed at all, or that there's a net change for the worse, can be dismissed as unwilling to accept the compromise.
I get the feeling this has been pulled on us.
Worse, I get the feeling that the new timer that says you cannot call for 60 seconds after combat is here for good. That means those red dots who appear right on top of you as you're speeding across Endor now create a 60 second delay on you as you sail right past to the sound of combat music.
Vertexon, my top five issues are:
1) Campsite requirement is unncessary and obstructive
2) 30 second delay is unnecessary and obstructive
3) 60 second delay is unnecessary and obstructive
4) Thunderheart's obvious dislike of our profession, eg 'poke-style'
5) Lack of babies on the bulk of creatures below CL50
There's a technique you can use to quiet a situation people are unhappy with. First, you make it much worse. Then, you bring it back to what it was (or, to less than what it was, but not as bad as you HAD made it). At this point, you're 'willing to compromise' and 'working with you.' Anyone who points out that nothing's changed at all, or that there's a net change for the worse, can be dismissed as unwilling to accept the compromise.
I get the feeling this has been pulled on us.
Worse, I get the feeling that the new timer that says you cannot call for 60 seconds after combat is here for good. That means those red dots who appear right on top of you as you're speeding across Endor now create a 60 second delay on you as you sail right past to the sound of combat music.
Vertexon, my top five issues are:
1) Campsite requirement is unncessary and obstructive
2) 30 second delay is unnecessary and obstructive
3) 60 second delay is unnecessary and obstructive
4) Thunderheart's obvious dislike of our profession, eg 'poke-style'
5) Lack of babies on the bulk of creatures below CL50
BlindTyldak
Wed Feb 25, 2004 5:11 pm
#21
Ekhben wrote:
All Vertexon's campaigning on our behalf, the thousands of posts, the logical deconstruction of the 'reasons' given, and we're ... back where we started!
There's a technique you can use to quiet a situation people are unhappy with. First, you make it much worse. Then, you bring it back to what it was (or, to less than what it was, but not as bad as you HAD made it). At this point, you're 'willing to compromise' and 'working with you.' Anyone who points out that nothing's changed at all, or that there's a net change for the worse, can be dismissed as unwilling to accept the compromise.
I get the feeling this has been pulled on us.
Gee, ya think? They've been doing that to us since Day One.
mochloD
Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:18 pm
#22
Well done Vert!
I dont mind the camp calling restrictions. Its not hard for me to find a spot to drop a camp and i carry around a crate or two so i always have one on hand. They take what, 5 seconds to craft if you dont have one on you already?
This is so much better than a blanket 30 second timer for calling pets in all locations. Camps still have little functionality but at least we arent taking a huge step backwards. Small victory but a victory none the less.
Pluto9Moon
Wed Feb 25, 2004 9:18 pm
#23
Vert, Rune and Fellow CH's,
This is one of many steps in a positive direction. Remember that clear, concise and well argued posts make it easier to convince the Devs to change something. While I personally run back and forth with my pets out, it does not change the fact others still wish to speed to their mission and call pets immediately. The closest this comes at this time is with the camp. While this really remains the same it is the better of the two evils.
Rune, I challenge any of the Dev team to show me a valid reason where calling my pets immediately is griefing.
If your answer is that it suprises people because they are not expecting to fight an army, then I must and always have replied that it is no different than a person wearing a novice Marksman title with CDEF pistol in hand suprising me with a LLC or Flamethrower. If this is the only reason I see two choices. First you must eliminate any pet calling restrictions on CH. Or you must make a 60 second timer for switching weapons and must also include music instruments, stimpacks, and survey tools (the last two would have to become handheld items). I cannot tell you the number of times I have been griefed while training a pet Overt for someone. If the definition of griefing is now and forever meaning "unprepared for the unexpected" then the CH's want to see 60 second timers on all things that a person should be holding while there is a chance of entering combat.
If your answer is switching out pets when they become incapped, then I will also point out that any combat class can still switch a weapon that suddenly decays mid battle for another weapon.
These two examples of double standards are something that our community has tried to show the Dev team. We are still waiting on rational answers. The past two weeks were out of control. Help us help you, but also you must help us stay a valid combat profession.
This is one of many steps in a positive direction. Remember that clear, concise and well argued posts make it easier to convince the Devs to change something. While I personally run back and forth with my pets out, it does not change the fact others still wish to speed to their mission and call pets immediately. The closest this comes at this time is with the camp. While this really remains the same it is the better of the two evils.
Rune, I challenge any of the Dev team to show me a valid reason where calling my pets immediately is griefing.
If your answer is that it suprises people because they are not expecting to fight an army, then I must and always have replied that it is no different than a person wearing a novice Marksman title with CDEF pistol in hand suprising me with a LLC or Flamethrower. If this is the only reason I see two choices. First you must eliminate any pet calling restrictions on CH. Or you must make a 60 second timer for switching weapons and must also include music instruments, stimpacks, and survey tools (the last two would have to become handheld items). I cannot tell you the number of times I have been griefed while training a pet Overt for someone. If the definition of griefing is now and forever meaning "unprepared for the unexpected" then the CH's want to see 60 second timers on all things that a person should be holding while there is a chance of entering combat.
If your answer is switching out pets when they become incapped, then I will also point out that any combat class can still switch a weapon that suddenly decays mid battle for another weapon.
These two examples of double standards are something that our community has tried to show the Dev team. We are still waiting on rational answers. The past two weeks were out of control. Help us help you, but also you must help us stay a valid combat profession.
Ekhben
Wed Feb 25, 2004 10:20 pm
#24
This is one of many steps in a positive direction.
Er, I'm not sure how.
We lobbied hard to get the camp calling restrictions removed.
The devs removed them, but also added an onerous system of delays.
We lobbied hard to... get back to where we started?
It seems a lot more like we're running in circles than stepping in a positive direction.
Er, I'm not sure how.
We lobbied hard to get the camp calling restrictions removed.
The devs removed them, but also added an onerous system of delays.
We lobbied hard to... get back to where we started?
It seems a lot more like we're running in circles than stepping in a positive direction.
ZabrakEnforcer
Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:17 pm
#25
LtBike wrote:
Thanks for listening!
Lt
um what part did they listen to? what we didnt want? oh thats right ok i get it. you fool, they didnt listen and if you think they did then i feel sorry for you when you can not see when people screw you. the whole point of this was to be able to call pets with no restricitons in the wild, and what do we have? half a fricking minute wait.
BlackEdge
Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:44 pm
#26
Pretty much a pointless change. Developers never gave a reason why they are doing this. Yes there's a compromise, but of what? Supposedly TH said cause of some griefing reason (or was it exploit?), but of what?
There's no delay in the city or in camp. The only way one can grief usually is in pvp. Pvp occurs a lot mostly in city. So why is it exactly that the 30 second delay won't apply to the city.
I still wish to know what the exploit or griefing is that's attached to the reason why there's a 30 second delay for calling your pet out.
There's no delay in the city or in camp. The only way one can grief usually is in pvp. Pvp occurs a lot mostly in city. So why is it exactly that the 30 second delay won't apply to the city.
I still wish to know what the exploit or griefing is that's attached to the reason why there's a 30 second delay for calling your pet out.