Creature Handler Archive
Thread: IF Thunderheart can really get us attention what do we really want?
TsiyaAma
Tue Aug 24, 2004 1:08 am
#14
1. Tamers/rp'ers - convert to deed or more datapad storage/zoo/corral
2. PvE & PvP- Medium armor, armor piercing, and different damage types/HAM hitting pets. We are the only fighting class with no armor piercing abilities and only 1 damage type, which makes pets useless in mid to high level PvE.Also make the 75% reduction either obsolete onceeveryone else is"balanced", or apply it to everything. Also make MCH's invulnerable to any special that would cause the char to be knocked off their pet.
Possible solutions:
Pet running bug - set the ideal combat distance for all MOB's at say 3 meters. That way no matter what size they are once they engage they're happy to beat on each other. Also make sure the target attack point is the same, i.e. the point they attack from is the same point they are attacked at.
Armor and armor piercing - Give us a weapon that when equipped gives a +1 upgrade to armor(none to Light, light to Medium) and armor piercing, all applied to our pets only. We would be unable to attack with any other weapon, and the 5 second weapon switch timer would ensure fair play by all.
Edit: spelling<cringe>
Message Edited by TsiyaAma on 08-24-2004 07:08 PM
jopenack
Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:44 am
#15
I liked Verts list
Ihave a feeling any attention we get will be min.
so if I could have one thing changed it would be storage either in datapad(doubled no bone thrown an increase it by 2, double it) or a ranch or drop in house type thing.
if I could have a second thing then it would have to be increase our max cap to either 100 if not for a single pet but allow 3 pets to be called up to the 100 lvl
my third an final wish (for this thread lol I have many more wishes but wont bore you all) would be for all creatures under our max lvl cap to have babies if it walks or flies it should have babies tamable for a ch
Good Thread been thinking of starting one like it,
Good Job Pluto
Pluto9Moon
Tue Aug 24, 2004 9:36 am
#16
Jo,
Thanks. All my ideas are not 100% bulletproof. This idea is really geared towards not making the list longer. But somehow amongst ourselves shortening the list so each style of CH could possibly get something that will be a benefit.
For instance would the majority of Tamers/RPers rather have more Rares spawn, more creatures entirely or simply more storage (whether that be datapad or a structure [would the structure be a kennel or something functional]).
PvE mostly works. It is really hard to come up with many ideas for this but is there one thing that most can agree upon that will make PvE better for CH?
And lastly PvP, there have been many discussions about some sort of item a CH would wield to keep from stacking some other uber prof with it. A whip, a chair, or whatever. There have also been discussions about damge types. Klikniks should probably deal Acid damage. Large creatures should definitely deal Stun. Would we rather see all our creatures do more damage because we wield something or different types?
This is not about listing more things we want. But narrowing down things to what we want when the time comes. If nothing else, at least prioritizing those which we know we want and saying we think this one thing would make the most CH happiest for each individual style player.
What I would hope is that each person make their own wish lists this week. Then next week we remake the list as a whole and everyone choose one thing from each of the three style players.
Spread the word to fellow CH's to participate. All forums are dead mostly because lack of faith in SOE. If TH can pull this one off, I for one and I am sure many more, will start to believe SOE is paying attention.
Thanks. All my ideas are not 100% bulletproof. This idea is really geared towards not making the list longer. But somehow amongst ourselves shortening the list so each style of CH could possibly get something that will be a benefit.
For instance would the majority of Tamers/RPers rather have more Rares spawn, more creatures entirely or simply more storage (whether that be datapad or a structure [would the structure be a kennel or something functional]).
PvE mostly works. It is really hard to come up with many ideas for this but is there one thing that most can agree upon that will make PvE better for CH?
And lastly PvP, there have been many discussions about some sort of item a CH would wield to keep from stacking some other uber prof with it. A whip, a chair, or whatever. There have also been discussions about damge types. Klikniks should probably deal Acid damage. Large creatures should definitely deal Stun. Would we rather see all our creatures do more damage because we wield something or different types?
This is not about listing more things we want. But narrowing down things to what we want when the time comes. If nothing else, at least prioritizing those which we know we want and saying we think this one thing would make the most CH happiest for each individual style player.
What I would hope is that each person make their own wish lists this week. Then next week we remake the list as a whole and everyone choose one thing from each of the three style players.
Spread the word to fellow CH's to participate. All forums are dead mostly because lack of faith in SOE. If TH can pull this one off, I for one and I am sure many more, will start to believe SOE is paying attention.
hotmad1021
Tue Aug 24, 2004 5:48 pm
#17
Tamers: more pets storage isnt really an answer to anything. you can simply have more pets of the same type. A wider variety of pets and slightly increased rare spawn rate would probably bolster this area of the game.
PvE: Works.
PvP: Doesnt work. Player pets should be under the same combat rules as Players in PvP.
Increased HAM regen rates would be nice.
Differant damage types for creatures would make us harder to beat in PvP. See PvP comments.*
DaBudo2
Tue Aug 24, 2004 9:27 pm
#18
I've given this a lot of thought and still can't decide for sure. Except that I agree it's important to prioritize - too many choices and the Devs may not choose anything
Vert's list is great!! However, we know we aren't going to get everything there.
Tamers/Roleplayers - more pets and more storage OR at least something like a "temporary taming slot" as suggested in another thread.
PvE - quests would be very, very fun. Assuming we got more than a CDEF pistol as a reward I mean.
PvP - Everything on Vert's list. Sorry. Just can't narrow this one down because there are so many things CH needs to be viable in PvP.
Now, if I have to pick just one catagory for the Devs to work on then I must collapse into a quivering pile of indecision and despair.
spreadsheet
Thu Aug 26, 2004 1:44 pm
#19
/bump
This is tuff, gonna have to think on this one.
Thanks P9M
Alphajonny
Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:19 pm
#20
I want one thing....
1. Ability to redeed pets! This would help CH's a Bio eng's! a duality idea.
1. Ability to redeed pets! This would help CH's a Bio eng's! a duality idea.
Pluto9Moon
Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:15 am
#21
Here is a consolidated list of what everyone proposed, agreed with, etc. What I would hope we could do now is choose one thing from each category that we feel best represents us and quite possibly issues that CH's everywhere would most agree would help us as an interim fix. So consider this a vote/poll. Pick one from each of the numbered sections. It is best we agree on the problem before we can agree on a solution. So if you disagree with any posted solutions keep that in mind. Thanks P9M.
1) Tamers/Roleplayers (feel free to list your own ideas)
a) New Content ie Storage
b) Fixes ie Mounts not following
c) c) Bring up rare spawns just a bit, not by much to keep them rare.
d) More tameables in MASS variety.
e) Tameables to have different HAM variations, just like the parents have
f) A pet Corral as P9M described
g) /summon /follow /beckon griefing others pets/droids, remove them
h) Tamers/rp'ers - convert to deed
i) A flying mount would be nice.
k) if I could have a second thing then it would have to be increase our max cap to either 100 if not for a single pet but allow 3 pets to be called up to the 100 lvl
l) my third an final wish (for this thread lol I have many more wishes but wont bore you all) would be for all creatures under our max lvl cap to have babies if it walks or flies it should have babies tamable for a ch
m) *"temporary taming slot" as suggested in another thread.
n) Problem: Some Bio-Engineered pets are brokenly powerful, trivializing the CH's taming skills and giving non-CH too powerful of a pet
Solution: Bring Bio-Engineered pets in line with wild animals. Apply more weight to things like Kinetic resist, Light Armor, HAM, and special attacks to discourage brokenly overspecialized pets
2) PvE
A: Creature Handler Specific Quests I think the quest reward should be our own personal little zoo. I would even use all 10 slots if need be. Heck Im not using them for anything now anyway. I live in the wild with my pets to keep me company. Add a few quests, for Rare pet Hunting.
b) Problem: The special attacks "Poison," "Disease," and "Knockdown" do not work with the UseSpecial training commands Give specials delivered by pets in combat a greater chance to hit
Solution: Fix the UseSpecial training commands so they work with these three pet abilities
c) Issues ie Pets run too much. keep pets in combat as much as possible and not running scared at half HAM. Pet running bug - set the ideal combat distance for all MOB's at say 3 meters. That way no matter what size they are once they engage they're happy to beat on each other. Also make sure the target attack point is the same, i.e. the point they attack from is the same point they are attacked at.
d) Fix pathing ie pets turning sideways and slowing down.
e) A revamp of creatures to actually make some sense Medium armor, armor piercing, and different damage types/HAM hitting pets. We are the only fighting class with no armor piercing abilities and only 1 damage type, which makes pets useless in mid to high level PvE.Differant damage types for creatures would make us harder to beat in PvP. See PvP comments
f) Problem: Mounted combat is tactically weaker and riskier than combat on foot. Makes mounts very undesirable compared to vehicles. Solution: More robust mounted combat system. Allow players to use special attacks while mounted. Allow pet itself to attack while mounted. Add area of effect "trample damage" to mounted pets. Add mount wearable armor.
3) PvP
a) New Content ie Pet control device that disallows Pet Damage to stack with secondary profession (this needs to be discussed further though if we are to take the power drain but our pets have little output for damage)
b) Fixes ie Pet damage mitigation Also make the 75% reduction either obsolete once everyone else is "balanced", or apply it to everything. Also make MCH's invulnerable to any special that would cause the char to be knocked off their pet.
c) Issues ie We do not do the amount of damage that BH does with less skill points invested.
d) Armor piercing and armor wearing capabilities for pets Solution: Give us a weapon that when equipped gives a +1 upgrade to armor(none to Light, light to Medium) and armor piercing, all applied to our pets only. We would be unable to attack with any other weapon, and the 5 second weapon switch timer would ensure fair play by all.
e) ALL of the various other ideas suggested gear towards the GCW
f) Increase Pet toughness, HAMs. Differant damage types for creatures would make us harder to beat in PvP. See PvP comments
g) Problem: Pet damage per second is weak compared to those used by players Solution: Nerf player damage. Or boost creature damage to compensate. Perhaps even a short duration boost, like adding damage increases to the skill Enrage Pets
h) eliminate /summon /beckon /follow for successful PVP
i) A pet with lightsaber resists.
j) Increased HAM regen rates would be nice.
k) Problem: One big pet has much more tanking power than two or three smaller pets Solution: When a CH calls multiple pets, apply a stat bonus to them for "working together." See Ultima Online's "pack instincts" system
l) Problem: The skill "Jedi Mind Trick" is basically an "I Win" button against Creature Handlers. Solution: Change Jedi Mind Trick so it does not affect player-owned pets.
m) Problem: Pets are extremely vulnerable to state effects (DOTs, Dizzy, Intimdate, Warcry, etc) Solution: Boost pet defense against state effects. Could take the form of across the board creature revamp, bonuses embedded in CH skill tree advancement, or bonuses embedded in short duration abilities like Embolden Pets
1) Tamers/Roleplayers (feel free to list your own ideas)
a) New Content ie Storage
b) Fixes ie Mounts not following
c) c) Bring up rare spawns just a bit, not by much to keep them rare.
d) More tameables in MASS variety.
e) Tameables to have different HAM variations, just like the parents have
f) A pet Corral as P9M described
g) /summon /follow /beckon griefing others pets/droids, remove them
h) Tamers/rp'ers - convert to deed
i) A flying mount would be nice.
k) if I could have a second thing then it would have to be increase our max cap to either 100 if not for a single pet but allow 3 pets to be called up to the 100 lvl
l) my third an final wish (for this thread lol I have many more wishes but wont bore you all) would be for all creatures under our max lvl cap to have babies if it walks or flies it should have babies tamable for a ch
m) *"temporary taming slot" as suggested in another thread.
n) Problem: Some Bio-Engineered pets are brokenly powerful, trivializing the CH's taming skills and giving non-CH too powerful of a pet
Solution: Bring Bio-Engineered pets in line with wild animals. Apply more weight to things like Kinetic resist, Light Armor, HAM, and special attacks to discourage brokenly overspecialized pets
2) PvE
A: Creature Handler Specific Quests I think the quest reward should be our own personal little zoo. I would even use all 10 slots if need be. Heck Im not using them for anything now anyway. I live in the wild with my pets to keep me company. Add a few quests, for Rare pet Hunting.
b) Problem: The special attacks "Poison," "Disease," and "Knockdown" do not work with the UseSpecial training commands Give specials delivered by pets in combat a greater chance to hit
Solution: Fix the UseSpecial training commands so they work with these three pet abilities
c) Issues ie Pets run too much. keep pets in combat as much as possible and not running scared at half HAM. Pet running bug - set the ideal combat distance for all MOB's at say 3 meters. That way no matter what size they are once they engage they're happy to beat on each other. Also make sure the target attack point is the same, i.e. the point they attack from is the same point they are attacked at.
d) Fix pathing ie pets turning sideways and slowing down.
e) A revamp of creatures to actually make some sense Medium armor, armor piercing, and different damage types/HAM hitting pets. We are the only fighting class with no armor piercing abilities and only 1 damage type, which makes pets useless in mid to high level PvE.Differant damage types for creatures would make us harder to beat in PvP. See PvP comments
f) Problem: Mounted combat is tactically weaker and riskier than combat on foot. Makes mounts very undesirable compared to vehicles. Solution: More robust mounted combat system. Allow players to use special attacks while mounted. Allow pet itself to attack while mounted. Add area of effect "trample damage" to mounted pets. Add mount wearable armor.
3) PvP
a) New Content ie Pet control device that disallows Pet Damage to stack with secondary profession (this needs to be discussed further though if we are to take the power drain but our pets have little output for damage)
b) Fixes ie Pet damage mitigation Also make the 75% reduction either obsolete once everyone else is "balanced", or apply it to everything. Also make MCH's invulnerable to any special that would cause the char to be knocked off their pet.
c) Issues ie We do not do the amount of damage that BH does with less skill points invested.
d) Armor piercing and armor wearing capabilities for pets Solution: Give us a weapon that when equipped gives a +1 upgrade to armor(none to Light, light to Medium) and armor piercing, all applied to our pets only. We would be unable to attack with any other weapon, and the 5 second weapon switch timer would ensure fair play by all.
e) ALL of the various other ideas suggested gear towards the GCW
f) Increase Pet toughness, HAMs. Differant damage types for creatures would make us harder to beat in PvP. See PvP comments
g) Problem: Pet damage per second is weak compared to those used by players Solution: Nerf player damage. Or boost creature damage to compensate. Perhaps even a short duration boost, like adding damage increases to the skill Enrage Pets
h) eliminate /summon /beckon /follow for successful PVP
i) A pet with lightsaber resists.
j) Increased HAM regen rates would be nice.
k) Problem: One big pet has much more tanking power than two or three smaller pets Solution: When a CH calls multiple pets, apply a stat bonus to them for "working together." See Ultima Online's "pack instincts" system
l) Problem: The skill "Jedi Mind Trick" is basically an "I Win" button against Creature Handlers. Solution: Change Jedi Mind Trick so it does not affect player-owned pets.
m) Problem: Pets are extremely vulnerable to state effects (DOTs, Dizzy, Intimdate, Warcry, etc) Solution: Boost pet defense against state effects. Could take the form of across the board creature revamp, bonuses embedded in CH skill tree advancement, or bonuses embedded in short duration abilities like Embolden Pets
Message Edited by Pluto9Moon on 08-26-2004 03:16 PM
jopenack
Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:21 am
#22
wow lol these are some tough choices especially in the 1st column for me lol
hmmm
1 = A
2 = E
3 = F
Good Job Pluto
GlenSharkio
Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:10 am
#23
Problem - In PvP Pets are ignored and the owner is the immediate target, making pets seem worthless.
Solution - Give large pets crushing attacks which ignore armor and 'warcry' the target whilst crushing.
Problem - in PvP pets do 0-10 damage versus any Master in decent armor, which cancels out the damage with their buffed regen.
Solution - Make Pets damages much greater and/or the large pets have AP2 or 3 to represent the sheer size and strength of the creatures.
Problem - Im MCH, and i have no more Creature space in pad, yet my pad is only 50% full.
Solution - Make Creature Storage tapes, creature storage quests, and even a quest reward where you are giving an Architect deed for a Creature Paddock or something.
MrHawat
Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:16 am
#24
I will weigh in.
Tamer/Trainer: More Storage, I do not care how.
PVE: Bring armor back on pets to prenerf levels.
PVP: No opinion, I have given up on PVP entirely.
SkyPreacher1
Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:30 am
#25
Greetings,
Role Playing: Number 1 issue is pet storage. If I could have anything it would be the ability to "drop" my pets in my house or bank when they get old and wearing out. A lot of my "favorite" pets I have had to "release" because I needed the room for newer and healthier pets.
PVE: Pets that have medium armor and armor piercing and dish out damage on other levels than Kinetic. I think Poison/Disease should hit Action or Mind. I think Dizzy from a pet should be on a par with TKA dizzy knockdown. I would like pets to attack at the same rate as PC's and that they should have special attacks that are close to the damage we can do. Bring back the fear factor in fighting High Level Mobs.
PVP: No reduction in damage that pets do, specials are not mitigated, Buffing of pets or pet recovery is increased. AND this is really huge for me in PVP some defense bonuses for CH. If we enter PVP as a CH solely, not able to weild another weapon, then I think we should have defensive stacks that are built into the trees of CH so that someone can't run past my pet and kill me. The number 1 reason most CH's picked up another combat profession way back a year ago was the simple solution to attacking pets, Kill the CH. So we need some defensive help in avoiding melee damage, I would say that the SP output it takes for us to get to Master we should have the defensive stacking of a fencer at least. ANyway until the major griefing is fixed in PVP that there is against CH I don't PVP.
NAGANO1
Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:51 am
#26
So far it is a pretty good list.
However as we have seen with other profession revamps like the droids, the devs seem inclined to do the least amount of work to fix anything. I mean they spent more time and effort hard selling the droid publish. They couldn't even get any new artwork for the new droids, it was the same stuff, just with a different theme. The mouse droids are now "exploding" droids. The combat droids are the same r2 and r4 droids.
So the odds on favorite is that what we will get will be stuff that will be the quickest tim implement. That means maybe a few extra storage slots for the pets, and maybe a few minor repairs, with some baby spawns. Are we going to get graphically intense artwork with new pets? Not likely. Flying mounts, a great idea especially if you place it as a reward for higher level CH's is again not likely. Not because it would be bad for the game, but because someone would have to do put a little extra work into it.
The thing is there are alot of broken professions out there, and JTL with its limited beta testing, is going to have many problems as well. Who knows how much time in the end will be given to the SWG ground game in the long run.
I think the list and all correspondence is critical however, because it proves that we are a viable profession and active as players, who are paying for a product. It is critical to get answers and get comittment with Thunderheart or whoever is in charge. Ultimately we are the paying customers and in the end you can never lose sight of that.
Var NAGANO