Creature Handler Archive
Thread: A new direction for CH balance
Iakimo wrote:
QA, my first impression of you was made by a troll-bait post you dropped in another discussion thread, but you have some quality ideas here (albeit mostly rehashed versions of other people's work), so I'll give you a mulligan on the troll bait, at least in this thread. But you lost a potential customer -- or would, if you were on my server and could compete with other bioengineers there.
Your best original (as far as I can tell) idea is the one suggesting that CH's be allowed to pull multiple mounts for their party members. That one would definitely an immersiveness-enhancer, if the devs were to add it. The question is, would the mounts have to be in keeping with the useability level of the other characters -- i.e., non-CH's still only able to ride level-10 mounts -- or would they be subject to the CH's level?
I'd like to see some weapon-accuracy/speed mods in the CH profession. I think it's unbalanced to penalize this combat profession on weapon use to the extent that CH's get no weapon mods. And how about one or two weapon specials that would be in character with this profession, like a"Tranquilizer Dart" shot and/or weapon? Maybe with a cool special weapon from a hunter or scientist somewhere deep in the Kashyyykian jungle....?
The fix ain't rocket science -- design creatures with CH as an equal factor to PvE in the design process. Don't change a thing about wild creatures until it's been tested thoroughly for impact on the CH profession.
The problems the profession has today are the result of two years of complete neglect, not because of a conscious effort by the devs. The Negligent Nerfbat is our enemy, competent software design processes would be our friend.
Insist on competence and a commitment to simple, reliable QUALITY in the design process, it will be every profession's friend, not just ours.
Message Edited by Iakimo on 07-05-2005 01:31 PM
Larnyth wrote:
Very good ideas there in giving the ch more specials with the pets would love to see the ability to attack while mounted add back in and an idea for a ablity is insted of have your roar from pets root have it act like a taunt to draw agro be nice to be able to have the pets tank a bit again.
An AoE taunt would indeed be great. An excelent means to deal with a situation where your group pulls too much social agg.
Example:
The foolish rifleman in your group fires at a target in the center of the group or creatures your hunting. This brings 4 socialcreatures in addtion to his target. You send your pet at one of them and use the area taunt pulling all but the original target off the rifleman. Hopefully the group medic will keep your pet healed while the rest of the group pulls them off your pet one at a time.
I think its rather feasible to balance CH in the game. The first thing that needs to be addressed is the lack of variation in CH.
1st pets need to fill the roles to a tee that all weapons do. A powerful weapon is usually a slower weapon. Pets need to vary at all levels some should have high damages others more defense aka health. This alone would make players respect pets rather then ignore them. A player needs to learn to atleast assess the creature handlers pet. Say he sees a pet bypasses the pet and goes for the the handler, but in doing so he did not see that the pet was a full attack pet. Which means it has high hitting power but low ham. This would encourage players to deal with CH pets. Give the CH a chance to decide how much offense or defense he is going to use. Makes haveing a balanced stable important.
2nd give the CH some actually abilities not moves. Here are some examples. Make them passive and set before an engagement.
Mangle a creature sent to mangle does not impart and regular damage but does wound damage instead. Yeah its the standard DOT except the creature or creatures are being used to wear down an opponent. This lets the creature handler act as a strategic weapon. If one opponent is being fearsome over time. Chs can use pets to wear them down. Make it a quarter max damage. More incentive for
Disenbowel a creature set to disenbowel. Does just that if the creature delivers an incap it will immediately disenbowel the pray. Makeing it so they cannot be revived. Seeing as no doc could treat such severe damage.
Breed a creature will generate a lair of friendly npcs equal to a half the creatures level. They will work just like a camp and a lair. They will be tethered to the lair, and upon leaveing it the lair will be abandoned, and no longer be allied to the player. This would be a good option for useing CH as a strategic weapon say planting a lair near a base.
3rd Combine scout and CH more fully. Allow creatures in a camp to get a CL bonus equal to the camp plus 1. Good for scout good for ranger. It would mean aslong as the pet was still in camp it could gain levels near to eighty.
Allow CHs to make special protectents for creature pets put it in lets say the trapping line in scout. Allow CHs to apply substances to the creature before going into combat non stackable. Like say you lay a base mask to your pet it would get a defensive buff to acid damage. A non conductive salve against electrical attacks. This is pretty fair since the CH must atleast use strategy to get any effect.
There is alot of strategic stuff they could add to CH. Be it acting like a stationary turret, or makeing it so the pet brings new concerns to the battlefield be it acting as a effective dot, or a master DB artist.
just a few thoughts on this - QA - great ideas by the way!
But with the way the CU is handled - why not allow master CH to ability to tame pets stronger then 70? why not bump it up to 80 to be on a level playing field as the top level a player can gain by mastering 2 elite combat profs?
Maybe even allow master CH to call a higher total of pet levels - move it up to 100 for 2 or 3 pets. As masters arent we suppose to be the best of the best as far as handling creatures? thus the title MASTER creature handlers. Now some would say this would make CH too strong - but if you think of it - it wouldnt really - based on the new CU rules - at a level 100 cap for multi pets - thats either 2 level 50 or 3 level 33 - compared to 1 level 80 in PvP the 80 is still gonna win for the most part due to the con system now. It may even help releive some of the wnat for all those elite pets. The only reason i went out and spend a full day looking for my narglatches was since i could only have 1 strong pet out at a time. Now I am willing to accept (Ducks and covers in preperation from attacks from everyone) to have the elite pet spawns (if and when they ever fix them) become more rare to spawn - lets make the name "elite pet" actually be elite, and lets make it a skill you need to learn - maybe a tame4 level skill to actually be able to tame an elite pet
I also think that some of the pet levels do need to be worked on (*cringes with the thoughts of devs tweaking more CH codes) but a rancor level 50 and a shear might level 69. That just doesnt make sense to me. yes the profession needs does need to be fixed and made balanced, and yes I also feel some of the creature levels need to be fixed. I mean in the movies Luke was SCARED of the rancor at jabbas. Now my crystal snake - a snake - can beat up a rancor! I mean come on really!
If we are talking about changing or adding some of the commands, why not get rid of some of the useless ones and update the results of some of the current ones. Who uses the patrol command anyways for anything more then having your pets walk around in a circle? Does it serve any real useful purpose? What about trick 1 and trick 2? What is it suppose to do now - it use to heal mind wounds (which arent there anymore). Maybe change it a bit - have trick 1 heal damage - like a stim and trick 2 heal a bit of wounds - and then when you feed a pet it still heals wounds fully.
thats my few thoughts on things 
KzinKiller wrote:
The reason the devs have had 'problems balancing CH' is because they've spent no time doing it, plain and simple. They push across-the-board wild pet changes with only the PvE game for non-CH's in mind, and then gee golly, what do you know, doing that without spending 5 seconds thinking about how those changes affect CH's actually has negative consequences for CH! Imagine!
The fix ain't rocket science -- design creatures with CH as an equal factor to PvE in the design process. Don't change a thing about wild creatures until it's been tested thoroughly for impact on the CH profession.
The problems the profession has today are the result of two years of complete neglect, not because of a conscious effort by the devs. The Negligent Nerfbat is our enemy, competent software design processes would be our friend.
Insist on competence and a commitment to simple, reliable QUALITY in the design process, it will be every profession's friend, not just ours.
I beg to differ! I think they spent far too much time on CH, and thats why they're reluctant to fix it again. They have it set in their heads that the solution to fixing creature handler is altering every creature in the game. This proved to be a disaster when they did the great CH revamp. Instead of adjusting CH, they nerfed the heck out of every creature in the game.
This had the tragic side effect of emmasculating the game, making it far too easy to play and solo featured character creatures, while at the same time making CH utterly incapable of competing with other professions.
I think the devs are weary about repeating the process... and rightly so! It was a huge undertaking and a massive disaster.
The idea behind this thread is to think of a solution to CH which does not involve altering creatures in any way whatsoever. We want a faster and less potentially devistating solution. We all know CH needs a leg up. This thread is about other ways to achieve our niche in the easiest and most fun ways possible.
In other words, we're brainstorming on alternative solutions. So think outside the box and lets see what options there are out there!
Dodece wrote:
I think its rather feasible to balance CH in the game. The first thing that needs to be addressed is the lack of variation in CH.
1st pets need to fill the roles to a tee that all weapons do. A powerful weapon is usually a slower weapon. Pets need to vary at all levels some should have high damages others more defense aka health. This alone would make players respect pets rather then ignore them. A player needs to learn to atleast assess the creature handlers pet. Say he sees a pet bypasses the pet and goes for the the handler, but in doing so he did not see that the pet was a full attack pet. Which means it has high hitting power but low ham. This would encourage players to deal with CH pets. Give the CH a chance to decide how much offense or defense he is going to use. Makes haveing a balanced stable important.
2nd give the CH some actually abilities not moves. Here are some examples. Make them passive and set before an engagement.
Mangle a creature sent to mangle does not impart and regular damage but does wound damage instead. Yeah its the standard DOT except the creature or creatures are being used to wear down an opponent. This lets the creature handler act as a strategic weapon. If one opponent is being fearsome over time. Chs can use pets to wear them down. Make it a quarter max damage. More incentive for
Disenbowel a creature set to disenbowel. Does just that if the creature delivers an incap it will immediately disenbowel the pray. Makeing it so they cannot be revived. Seeing as no doc could treat such severe damage.
Breed a creature will generate a lair of friendly npcs equal to a half the creatures level. They will work just like a camp and a lair. They will be tethered to the lair, and upon leaveing it the lair will be abandoned, and no longer be allied to the player. This would be a good option for useing CH as a strategic weapon say planting a lair near a base.
3rd Combine scout and CH more fully. Allow creatures in a camp to get a CL bonus equal to the camp plus 1. Good for scout good for ranger. It would mean aslong as the pet was still in camp it could gain levels near to eighty.
Allow CHs to make special protectents for creature pets put it in lets say the trapping line in scout. Allow CHs to apply substances to the creature before going into combat non stackable. Like say you lay a base mask to your pet it would get a defensive buff to acid damage. A non conductive salve against electrical attacks. This is pretty fair since the CH must atleast use strategy to get any effect.
There is alot of strategic stuff they could add to CH. Be it acting like a stationary turret, or makeing it so the pet brings new concerns to the battlefield be it acting as a effective dot, or a master DB artist.
I like your idea of passive skills... Its like the paladin on Diablo 2 and their aura. That might be a fun idea because instead of stacking abilities, we can only select 1 ability at a time and have to choose which one is best for the occasion...
I'm going to stew on this concept a bit... there is potential here!