Creature Handler Archive
Thread: This hate system................
Starmage
Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:42 am
#14
In a purely CH perspective the hate sysytem is going to grief us horribly. Everytime a baby broke scent and aggroed it became untamable to me, even after 30-40 minutes.
On a side note alot more babies are out there.,and CL's have been rearranged alot...ex...Graul Maulers are now cl 51, prowling gurrecks are now cl56....many...many more. also it appears the max ham on tamed pets is just under 8k.
hossp
Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:08 pm
#15
Starmage wrote:
On a side note alot more babies are out there.,and CL's have been rearranged alot...ex...Graul Maulers are now cl 51, prowling gurrecks are now cl56....many...many more. also it appears the max ham on tamed pets is just under 8k.
nice..so by raising cl levels on existing pets, and keeping our max at 70, they have effectivly lowered our max level.kinda sneaky how they slipped that one in..if a prowling gurreck went up 11 cl points i have to wonder if a bull rancor won't go up more than 5 ..
ArchiieBarrett
Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:35 pm
#16
Wow...?! no one told me this? That (pardon my language) SUCKS! Why? why would they do something like that, not only are they getting rid of armor, but they are increasing the tamable pet levels and not making are max level higher? Yeah what about the bull? Does that mean that puny pets like gubbers are now like level 18? Thats pretty retarded... I am not only disapointed but im furious.
supersparc
Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:46 pm
#17
Also note this:
Although some creatures went up, this implies some others went down. Which are CL 70 or less... and of those, which are tamable....we shall find out soon enough......and 'boss' MOB is a pretty generic term.
Tiggs wrote:How are group missions going to work out? Currently as it stands group levels cap at 80, how high of missions can they pull and complete from a terminal? How is this going to be balanced out for those who prefer solo play? Or, are missions going to continue to scale up based on how large the group is beyond level 80?
All mobs are going to have a max level of 80. Difficulty will be increased based on the presence of a “boss” mob. Standard mission terminal missions will cap at 80. A group that takes a lvl 80 mission will fight lvl 80 mobs, with numbers to account for the group size.
Although some creatures went up, this implies some others went down. Which are CL 70 or less... and of those, which are tamable....we shall find out soon enough......and 'boss' MOB is a pretty generic term.
Message Edited by supersparc on 04-27-2005 06:48 PM
Dodece
Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:49 pm
#18
Fact tanking in this game is very well cheap. You stick a guy in the front let him take all the damage while you sit confortably behind and pound away. To me this is just pathetic. In a group players need to be reliant on one another to beat the enemy one holding a creature down while another wastes it at a distance is just overly simplistic.
I think players need to seriously rethink how they will play ch not just assume the system is wrong. For instance its a tad arrogant of us to think that we can actually have the cake and eat it too. Get the best of tanking and the best of damage dealing? Its always the riflemen that comes in screaming the hate system sucks. While omitting the fact that if your character does less damage or the same damage as the pet the creature will just not break on you. It will not lets get that out of the way spreading fear that if your a ch and a master marksman say that the creature will insta break on you with one shot. It will not do that. If you by chance decide to outdamage your pet yeah it will break on you.
You know that some professions in the new system are just not going to jive very well with one another as chs are used to playing. Coughs and points to the common riflemen. Who hid at a distance and capped a helpless critter the pet was tanking. These guys will need to rethink how they fight creatures riflemen has a lot of offense but weaker defense. This means you will need to wait till a pet does decent damage before you move in to do your damage. Nothing wrong with this
Meanwhile if your other is say a defensive heavy player you might fight the same creature right up next to your pet in effect increasing your net damage. Perfectly acceptable.
If your character has alot of state attacks you may focus on that. Instead of damage useing knockdowns roots and bleeding attacks to deliver dot instead of power hits.
Asfor group battles I think players will quickly realize that not only do they have to do damage to enemies, but that tanks will need their support to keep the animal locked. This is where knockdowns roots and other moves come into play. Thats very good it means that other players will have to actively participate in helping the tanker tank.
The hate system is not all that bad in my book. It just requires a little more strategy and that is what makes one player better then another. Many chs just use a pet as a pinning maneuver and very little else. Instead of actually playing the class as a dance.
So in closeing the hate system is not an issue unless you make it so. You can choose to balance your character so that its a minimal issue. The profession will actually be playable and useful in many ways. If your also a tk odds are you and your pets will be fighting side by side. If your a riflemen you will be useing pets to sap your target before you go in for the kill. This is a very good thing the CU was about addressing overly simplified combat, and the old ch was about as simple as you can get. The tank role when it comes to groups will need to be recognized by members and groups will need to be built accordingly. You will want say commandos to be supporting your tanks with roots, and you will be wanting bhs to apply knockdowns to allow endangered players to escape while a tank re engages the enemy. Thats a system that involves finess. A bad group will make mistakes a smart group will minimize them.
I think we need to allow for a learning curve in this CU. How we play certain professions will change. Its not just about balanceing the moves, and the modifiers, but in makeing combat more complex and fun, and part of the fun will be in learning to use your pets in a strategic manner, and the hate system forces us to be more about skill rather then whats in the datapad.
Kitoth
Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:00 pm
#19
Hmm.. the new CL info is discouraging.
As to fixing the hate system as to how it relates to CH and other 'tanking' profs... perhaps some specials should be 'toggles', not one-offs. For example, you want a pet to tank? As a CH you have a special you can train them called "taunt". You click it once, and the creaturerepatedly 'taunts' a creature, based on the warm-up/cool-down cycle,as long as it is active- without the player having to keep hitting it.The icon is highlighted to indicated it is active. Hitting it again deactivates it.
Moving forward, to expand on that, andto help define the CH role as jack of all trades, we then need other 'toggle' abilities. Like a toggle for increased damage through special attacks (also restricted by warm-up/cool-down rates). While active, the pet will spam that special as often as the timer allows. Perhaps different special attacks with different timers, like a high-damage attack with a long cycle, and a less-damaging (but above base attack strength)attack with a shorter cycle. You'd use the high-damage one for short fights and the less-damaging one for long, drawn-out fights.
Gee, I wonder where I get all my great ideas from? I don't suppose it could be.... a certain, unmentionable game with a far superior CH-like class? hmm....
NyghtsSecond
Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:46 pm
#20
I just hope that they actually carry through on what has been proposed. And that is:
You will have to make a choice at the time you begin training a baby. You chose the animal's role and then it grows in to it.
That .. and I'm gonna hold my breath and wish really really hard till they...
Ah.. I turn into a smurf
Grenn-the-Robe
Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:42 pm
#21
The best way that I see to work with the hate system is to work with it.
If pets don't get a strong enough taunt to hold agro then you'll need to be able to take a few hits - long enough to take cover.
I'm a master creature handler and bounty hunter, and although I havn't tested the CU, bounty hunters are supposed to be able to tank a bit of damage so I'm not afraid of the hate system.
Unfortunately I hear there are some bugs with BH right now that prevent proper mitigation.
Ricbr
Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:16 pm
#22
I have been in the testing since day one...this has been an issue that the group has brought up many times.
They (the devs) are aware of it and they are working on a solution. I guess technically if I told you when it is coming that would be breaking the NDA....so I will just say that I beleive what I was told...and I expect to see it adjusted very very early in the CU.
Hope that helps a bit
They (the devs) are aware of it and they are working on a solution. I guess technically if I told you when it is coming that would be breaking the NDA....so I will just say that I beleive what I was told...and I expect to see it adjusted very very early in the CU.
Hope that helps a bit
NyghtsSecond
Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:25 pm
#23
Ricbr wrote:
I have been in the testing since day one...this has been an issue that the group has brought up many times.
They (the devs) are aware of it and they are working on a solution. I guess technically if I told you when it is coming that would be breaking the NDA....so I will just say that I beleive what I was told...and I expect to see it adjusted very very early in the CU.
Hope that helps a bit
The optomist in me wants to believe... Clap Clap Clap your hands everyone! Tink is Dying! .. If you just clap she will live!
'cause.. well the live team was rockin' prior to the CU. about 40 days from concept to publish.
But this is a new age.. where combat rules and the bugs will appear from every piece of wood trimming.
And promise were made to smugglers and entertainers ( with good reason!)
August or September would be nice.
jopenack
Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:48 pm
#24
Ricbr
I am thankful for what work many testers and even non testers have done on TC
And thank you for replying to this and iving us a bone to chew, the gag order the imperial regime has over people in matters like this does more damage than good.
However
you say the group has brought this up many times
They are (devs) aware of it
They have a date for it (well Im sure its an estimate lol)
This just shows how "not" ready this "cough" upgrade is.
lets look at my vision of a dev meeting =aleaderof thedevelopement departments isorganising all the teams for different aspects of the gamelol.
Date April 22, 2005
Leader says = "OK guys we are going live with this awesome upgrade, since only half of it works I need timetables on when we can fix it all"
/yawns
Leader = "Group one, you will have unitll June to fix your coding" "Can you do this"
group one reply's = "No"
Leader = "Greatdo what you can"
Leader = "group two you have July"
(1 hour later)
Leader = "Group twentytwo can you have the medics bug free by febuary 2007?"
/Leader looks at computer screen
/Reads email
"Scratch that new plans folks an expansion is planned for September 2005, called Battle for Hoth"
hmm"we are just redisigning the DWB and making it the Hoth base but can get more revenue to get us all a bonus if it goes live in August."
"stop all work on everything"
/grins
"group one your on hotfixes untill its released, make the suckers"
/grins
"err customers think we are all working on fixing the game and toss any type of patch whether it works or not out every 7 days"
/Sips Starbucks coffee
"Ok meeting over, go grab lunch"
/laughs out load
"Now I can buy myself that new car for my birthday"
The End
Message Edited by jopenack on 04-27-2005 10:18 PM
ScruffyNerfH
Wed Apr 27, 2005 9:49 pm
#25
This hate system is such a deal-breaker for me with CH. yes, I'm a rifleman and yes I use pets as tanks. If that's not possible anymore I see no point in having pets.But the hate system is more than just messed up with regards to pets, but it goes againstone oforiginal intentions of the CU, which was to allow roles to be fufilled. You were supposed to create groups that balanced healnig, tanking, crowd control, and damage dealing yet the hate system makes it so those roles are impossible to fulfill.
Whether they remove or tweak or overhaul the hate system down the road doesn't change the fact that I have to respec now (or within the next 2 weeks). If the changes, or lack thereof, to the hate system aren't completed and finalized in that timeframe, I don't have enough information to properly respec.
Ko-aIri
Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:09 pm
#26
cleekjc wrote:Are there any jucy rumors that this will be going away?I can live with everything in the CU but this (assuming they actually at some point fix the critical bugs)The hate system is a game breaker for me beacuse it kills CH and any medical profession.................and it does not help rifleman with thier crappy defenses either................
/innocentwhistle
Can't say much more, NDA and all that. It's been brought to the proper attention and I'm sure it will get the proper fix.
It was my #1 bug fix priority this past week, I did my best to make sure someone took note. That's about all I can say.
Message Edited by Ko-aIri on 04-28-2005 01:13 AM