Creature Handler Archive
Thread: upcoming changes
Schardour wrote:When the ability to 'AFK' low-level combat against NPCs was discovered, relatively few people stooped to that level. Some people will always cheat and choose the path of least resistance, but I don't see why everybody will do it. If the path to Mastery is shortened as they've described, then I don't think we'd see a marked increase in unattended entertainers.
The majority of combatants that would pick up Entertainer skills would likely do it for the sense of community.
Because they already pay an additional $15/mo for a mule account to do it... Unless you're advocating removing all functionality (including BF healing, inspiration buffing and any additional skills they may have wanted to give us) as well, because as long as there is a single credit to be made AFKers will flock to it.
I walked into theed last night to find it jam packed full of master level AFKers. It's already deteriorated to the point where masters are no longer expected to log off, they're just expected to keep using the same AFK macros post master that they used premaster.
Opening this up to every player in game to do with no sacrifice would just be a complete nightmare.
Schardour wrote:
When the ability to 'AFK' low-level combat against NPCs was discovered,relatively few people stooped to that level. Some people will always cheat and choose the path of least resistance, but I don't see why everybody will do it. If the path to Mastery is shortened as they've described, then I don't think we'd see a marked increase in unattended entertainers.
The majority of combatants that would pick up Entertainer skills would likely do it for the sense of community.
Refer to the Poll on the Chilastra Forums I started months ago, and revived when this topic was resurrected on the Dancer forums.
I cant help but notice how many of you posters here are older accounts. I think that says something and I hope some one is listening to you all. I been a entertainer since beta 3 and I would have been one in Beta 2 if I could have. And yes I am Guild leader and a Mayor of a city, but this is my main. Yes I do have a alt account I started sometime later to support me. I realized soon as most of you know we dont have a big income as entertainers, but I love the entertainer profession and will be one till they remove it from game.
Sunjammer wrote:
I want to apologise for my previous post in this thread. It wasn't directed at you in any way, Esharra, and I hope that was plain. But even so, it wasn't anything helpful or constructive, and I'm sorry.
Umi
It's all good, Umi. And I knew you weren't attacking me.
Maisland wrote:
Drygo wrote:
So, some of you guys really want everybody to be an entertainer? I understand the motivation to not want people to bot, of course. But, dang. I don't know of any other profession where people actually want every single other person in the game to be playing that same profession. Something is just messed up with that picture. It's symptomatic of how our gameplay has gone from the very beginning that so many of us actually would have no problem with this. Honestly, more than anything else, this is a complete copout and declaration of defeat. This would be the worst thing that could possibly happen to us, even worse than botting. I do not want my professions to become a hobby that everybody can have that renders me completely useless.
If they gave us a seperate skill point pool for all non-combat skills, then people will still have to make a choice of (forexample) Artisan vs Entertainer. Personally, I see this as being much preferable to other possibilities (such as reducing/removing skill point cost for Entertainer).
However, even if they did reduce/remove skill point cost for Entertainer, I personally do not see everyone becoming an Entertainer. After all, everyone can become a Pilot... regardless of what their ground game template is. Yet I myself, while I have one character who has gotten a ship from the Pilot trainer and even gone up into space and earned some xp, have no characters that have more than Novice Pilot. Supposedly, everyone can get Politician too, but only one of my characters has ever trained in that. Why? Simply because of the time and effort required to gain these skills. I just can't see any combat monkey doing that. Sure, they may pick up Novice Entertainer if it didn't interfeer with their combat template, but I just can't see them putting in the time and effort to get anywhere with it... especially if there is no extra benefit to it as there is now.
I have started the Theater manager quest with a new character. I have managed to get to the third promotion and have been going from cantina to cantina, looking for patrons to entertain.Most of the cantinas were empty. Some had a handful of afk zombies performing (namely Coronet and Theed), but I have only been able to find five people to entertain so far. It took me three days to get the 20 for the last promotion... and that was with friends helping. When I did this quest with my other characters, I got all of my promotions in a few hours for each of them.
Regardless of what anyone feels about the suggestions that have been made, something must be done... and done soon. A seperate skill point pool for allnon-combat skills seems to me to be the best way to handle this. If they made such a seperate pool, they could leave the skill point costs as they are now.
Ents do.
So removing the skill point costs means that "everyone" (I know not EVERYONE because there are still honest people out there) will set up their AFK tip-me bot to advertise their crafter/guild malln and as long as they get a single credit or a single additional customer at their shop it will be justified. Enough people pay an extra $15 for this, do we really think that it won't be utterly rampant if people could do it for free?
Maisland wrote:
I just can't see any combat monkey doing that. Sure, they may pick up Novice Entertainer if it didn't interfeer with their combat template, but I just can't see them putting in the time and effort to get anywhere with it... especially if there is no extra benefit to it as there is now.they could leave the skill point costs as they are now.
If the Combat Monkeys* out there actually put effort into playing the professons it might actually be a good thing because they would see how long, hard and sometimes lonely it can be, but they would also see how fun it can be and that might teach them somethings about the game.
* Combay Monkey: A player who thinks there is nothing good about the game outside or combat, a player who feels that everthing non-cpmbat is there simply to support him/her... No insult to combatants who do realize that there are things out there that are fun and not combat related
I started this game as a Dancer and then a Tailor assuming that I would either get to participate in the content in the game or maybe have some of my own designed just for the Dancer profession at least (I didn't really expect Tailor to have any particular content, and in the beginning I just thought I'd pick it up as a temporary hobby - didn't realize that I would keep it for so long
). Unfortunately there has been almost nothing in the way of content for either of my professions and an ever increasing number of options and goodies for the combat professions. Tailoring has changed little other than some new schematics (some of the best of which are usuable by only the Ithorians). Dancing, as a profession, has generally gotten worse in my opinion, although the community as a whole has become more tightly knit. The net result has left me wanting a change if I'm to maintain interest in the game. My suggestion, while not a new one, would be to go ahead and lump all the crafting and entertainer professions into a non-combat group, and all the other professions into a combat group. You then create three pools of skill points. One pool of combat skill points that's enough to master one elite combat profession. Another pool of non-combat skill points that's enough to master one noncombat profession. Then a third pool of floating skill points that's at least enough to master one more profession that can be used in either group. Then you can keep all the skill costs the same as they are now. If you want to be a Grand Master Entertainer and skip your combat points - you can do that. You want to be a cl 80 fighter and Weaponsmith - you can do that. You want to be a Dancer/Tailor and kick a little butt part time as a TKM - you can do that too. This wouldn't force anyone to change from what they have now, and it opens the door to let anyone who either has little or no combat skills to pick some up and participate in increased game content or has full combat skills but has always wanted to try a little entertaining or crafting. Especially considering the restriction of one character per server per account without unlocking, the current system is just too limiting as is. My only other solutions would be for them to add a new character slot for everyone (or maybe even as a veteran reward), allow you to use some of your 8 total characters to "double up" on one server, or open up the second slot to everyone so that it no longer needs to be unlocked. Unfortunately I tend to think that they are quite happy with the current system that encourages people to buy and maintain alternate accounts to implement one of these ideas.
When the ability to 'AFK' low-level combat against NPCs was discovered,relatively few people stooped to that level. Some people will always cheat and choose the path of least resistance, but I don't see why everybody will do it. If the path to Mastery is shortened as they've described, then I don't think we'd see a marked increase in unattended entertainers.
The majority of combatants that would pick up Entertainer skills would likely do it for the sense of community.
Refer to the Poll on the Chilastra Forums I started months ago, and revived when this topic was resurrected on the Dancer forums.
Drygo wrote:
The ONLY thing that I've seen mentioned that would work, the only thing that would not restrict anyone's choices, but at the same time would not make it so that entertainers become utterly useless by default because everybody is now an entertainer, is a reduction in skill points. It's fair, and it preserves choice and uniqueness.
I think that's probably the easiest one to do, so it might be the Dev favorite too.
I really like the separate pools idea because it really just feels more MMORPG than just "bam, here you go, do whatever you want." I actually don't mind if everyone could dance because I really do think that the true test of skill will be the player's own talent and time investment no matter what boxes they have, but some kind of choice does just feel more gamey.
I like the idea of breaking down the pools byschools of play:
City Profs: Entertainer, Dancer, Musician, Image Designer, Politician, Merchant
Survival and Strategic: Scout, Ranger, Creature Handler, Squad Leader, Commando
Tradeskills: Artisan, Architect, Armorsmith, Bio-engineer, Chef, Droid Engineer, Shipwright, Tailor, Weaponsmith
Healer: Medic, Doctor, Combat Medic
Space: The three Pilots (already set up this way)
Lore: Bounty Hunter, Smuggler, Jedi (FS handled like other non-elite trees)
Weapon and Physical Training: All the pure melee and ranged trees
I think the floating pool points are a good idea. Like, let people have one elite from five of the groups OR three in one group and 1 in two other groups OR three in one group and two in another one group. So, five total, BUT never more than three in one group. Keep the non-elites as something you have to train through and make it count for one of your 2-5 groups you have to pull from, but don't count it as one of your final five.
I think something like that still fits in with the original goal of the current template system (allowing for each char to be custom skill based by the playstyle goal for that char), but does it much better given the realities of the actual game.
This isn't like just an "Ent Revamp" type of proposal though, lol... and it would be a massive undertaking like the CU was, so I doubt the Devs are eager to jump into something like this. Though, in the aftermath of the CU, I really do believe this would be the best way to keep the original game goal in char development (ie: preserve crafters and entsin a world now ruled by char levels and integrate Jedi into the overall game since they are causing so many balance issues in PvP as they are handled now).
Drygo wrote:And, this is also exactly why I don't support separate skill pools. Let's say you get 125 combat and 125 non-combat. That is not fair to a lot of people. I complain alot about how the CU has destroyed hybrid viabilities. Having a divided skill point pool would destroy those players, and there are many, that do not want hybrid skills. Some players want to go all combat, or all crafter, or all entertainer. Some people want to go crafter/entertainer and have nothing to do with combat. If you have separate skill pools like that you are restricting some people's ability to play the game the way they want to play it. That is, unless you give people 250 skill points in entertainer, 250 in combat, and 250 in crafting, at which time the diversity of the game goes way down. And, giving people 250 points to spend in entertainer is the equivalent of making them cost 0 skill points. And, giving anything less than 250 for entertainer means that those who want to have all the entertainer skills won't be able to.
While I don't want EVERYONE to be an entertainer, I also don't want to take away the choice to be a full time entertainer. And, when you look at, separate skill point pools is just as damaging to some people, as the CU was to hybrids or non combat players. I just don't think this is a good idea.
Well I wouldn't support splitting the existing skill points either, but I don't think the devs would even consider that because no one could be level 80 anymore if they could use only 125 of their SP in combat and I know they aren't going to restrict people like that. That's why I suggested three pools of points that would allow, in essence, mastery of 3 professions. With one pool for combat, one pool for non-combat, and one pool of floating SP that can be used in either, you could keep whatever 2 primary elite masteries you have now, and be able to add one more from whichever pool is left. Now there might be some issues with the current quadruple Ent mastery and also the triple melee combat mastery (TK, Swords, and Fencer if that still exists). The devs would have to decide if they want these combinations to continue to exist and give enough points in the floating pool (or adjust SP requirements) to allow it if they were to implement this idea. I figure the floating pool might have a bit more SP than either of the other two to allow for dabbling and perhaps a non-elite mastery. The details would all have to be worked out of course.
Now Pan's idea is interesting, but I'm not sure the devs would allow us to master any 5 professions (even if some have to be from different categories). Granted you could do that now if you picked properly, such as Master ID, Dancer, Musician, Politician, and Pilot, but that's because 2 of those have a 0SP requirement, and the other 3 are a special case. I can't see them allowing, for example, Master Ranger, Bounty Hunter, Shipwright, Pilot, and Dancer in one character. That might be fun, but I don't see them going for it, unless I'm misunderstanding her suggestion.
Yeah, that's what I was saying. I don't think that's too much, but the Devs might. It's prolly way more than they want to attempt right now anyway, like you said. *nods*
DanceRulez wrote:
I can't see them allowing, for example, Master Ranger, Bounty Hunter, Shipwright, Pilot, and Dancer in one character.