Creature Handler Archive

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DanceRulez wrote:
**Snip** I think we could preserve our interactivity with combat buffs by introducing a new type of buff to the game. We could take a page from another popular online game *cough*W*o*W*cough*, and add "timerless" buffs. The way this would work would be that the buff would wear down by use and not by time. For example, a pistoleer comes in and gets a pistol speed buff from an Entertainer. The buff would increase the Pistoleer's speed for maybe 100 shots for example. Once the buff is done, the Pistoleer could run out and use them right away, wait till later in the evening, or wait a week or more to use those 100 shots. The buff would be there ready to use whenever the Pistoleer wants to, and the Pistoleer can feel free to get the buff at any time and use it at any time. This is an improvement even over the current inspiration buff's ability to last between sessions because even if you get one before you log out, you may not know for sure what you'll be doing the next time you log in or if you'll get a chance to use it before it runs out or is too far depleted to be helpful. This also would remove the problem of buffs being only a precombat prep time event, as such buffs could be sought out and applied at any time that a combat player can see an Entertainer and used at any time that the combat player needs it without worrying about timers.

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Message Edited by Rabenschwinge on 06-29-2005 01:16 PM

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Panthu wrote:

I personally hate the "ent as alt" mindset. Some devs have had it, others haven't.

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Dear, I know you hate it. I hate it too. My question though is if the developers even care.

There was a time that I thought the developers cared about making these professions worth playing daily, independent of any player-generated events. But it seems they are crafting these professions to be more "bot friendly." They are taking away the games that bots could not do well (BF healing), and replacing them with quickly delivered goodies that, frankly, one doesn't need to be amusing to administer with skill (buffs). We also have new tools that can force a payment before the service is rendered (/covercharge), and still no real word on preventing unattendance.

My guess is that the whole "recursive macros/AFK is going away" initiative was pondered by these current developers and abandoned due to the contraversial nature of the issue. So rather than require that these professions play, they'd rather solve the problem by erasing the distinction between live and bot in terms of what they do, and how they do it. And they are doing it by turning the daily game of the entertainer as a profession that really requires no attempt to amuse at all in order to participate in the economy and in daily server life.

Honestly I really don't agree w/ these changes. I agree w/ the proposal previously offered by someone on this forum concerning the removal of Healing XP as a requirement for us to reach Master, I also like the idea of us handing out timerless combat buffs.

I myself am a 4/2/4/3 entertainer and am finding it difficult to get enough xp to reach Master. The idea of us only handing out non-combat buffs is a huge mistake. Many friends and repeat visitors are combatants coming to me for healing and find the current buff useless. Some have even stated once the healing ability is renoved they will see NO reason to visit cantinas and watch us perform. What is the point of us existing if we serve no useful purpose in the game.

I myself am a devoted ATK dancer and only go AFK at night when I go to bed in hopes of grinding out enough Healing XP to reach Master dancer,

While the idea of props and new dances is nice once again I like to point out that the current changes turn us into an almost obsolete profession. They should keep the BF in and our ability to heal it, just remove it as a requirement for us to reach Master. Many people do not consider buffs important enough to visit us. The timerless buffs would give us an extra bonus serving the community, but removing bf and making us ONLY buff bots makes us obsolete in the minds of many I know.

By the way my one and only character IS a dancer. I do not have alts and will not purchase another acct.

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PoetDancer wrote:

My guess is that the whole "recursive macros/AFK is going away" initiative was pondered by these current developers and abandoned due to the contraversial nature of the issue. So rather than require that these professions play, they'd rather solve the problem by erasing the distinction between live and bot in terms of what they do, and how they do it. And they are doing it by turning the daily game of the entertainer as a profession that really requires no attempt to amuse at all in order to participate in the economy and in daily server life.

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Drygo wrote:
So, some of you guys really want everybody to be an entertainer? I understand the motivation to not want people to bot, of course. But, dang. I don't know of any other profession where people actually want every single other person in the game to be playing that same profession. Something is just messed up with that picture. It's symptomatic of how our gameplay has gone from the very beginning that so many of us actually would have no problem with this. Honestly, more than anything else, this is a complete copout and declaration of defeat. This would be the worst thing that could possibly happen to us, even worse than botting. I do not want my professions to become a hobby that everybody can have that renders me completely useless.

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If they gave us a seperate skill point pool for all non-combat skills, then people will still have to make a choice of (forexample) Artisan vs Entertainer. Personally, I see this as being much preferable to other possibilities (such as reducing/removing skill point cost for Entertainer).

However, even if they did reduce/remove skill point cost for Entertainer, I personally do not see everyone becoming an Entertainer. After all, everyone can become a Pilot... regardless of what their ground game template is. Yet I myself, while I have one character who has gotten a ship from the Pilot trainer and even gone up into space and earned some xp, have no characters that have more than Novice Pilot. Supposedly, everyone can get Politician too, but only one of my characters has ever trained in that. Why? Simply because of the time and effort required to gain these skills. I just can't see any combat monkey doing that. Sure, they may pick up Novice Entertainer if it didn't interfeer with their combat template, but I just can't see them putting in the time and effort to get anywhere with it... especially if there is no extra benefit to it as there is now.

I have started the Theater manager quest with a new character. I have managed to get to the third promotion and have been going from cantina to cantina, looking for patrons to entertain.Most of the cantinas were empty. Some had a handful of afk zombies performing (namely Coronet and Theed), but I have only been able to find five people to entertain so far. It took me three days to get the 20 for the last promotion... and that was with friends helping. When I did this quest with my other characters, I got all of my promotions in a few hours for each of them.

Regardless of what anyone feels about the suggestions that have been made, something must be done... and done soon. A seperate skill point pool for allnon-combat skills seems to me to be the best way to handle this. If they made such a seperate pool, they could leave the skill point costs as they are now.

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PoetDancer wrote:

And they are doing it by turning the daily game of the entertainer as a profession that really requires no attempt to amuse at all in order to participate in the economy and in daily server life.

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The opportunity cost of choosing the Dancer profession over a combat profession, or most artisan professions, is so high that the amount of"economic participation" on our parts(now or in the future) would belaughable.

* double post - forums claimed I wasn't subscribed.... O_o *

Message Edited by Schardour on 06-29-2005 02:35 PM

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Panthu wrote:

Anyway, this is one of the reasons I am open to a separate skill point pool for Entertainer profs. If everyone can be an Ent on their main, there is no reason to AFK bot at all. If you are doing it full time on your main like most of us do, no change. If you are doing it currently with combat or crafting alts to support your Ent, well now you don't have to do that from another char. If you only play an Ent as an off char on another server and you have no need to do any more than you have been, no change for you.

No wherein this setupis therea motivation to bot. People who "need" Ent services can carry them around with them. People who want Entparticipation for parties can haveit whenever a party pops up. People who wantaltsfor RP will still have all the same motivations - which were never to bot.

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I still think that the only way that anyone will ever be able to tell for sure how entertainer can be maximized as an active-interactive and viable profession is to remove AFKability. Whether its a separate sp pool, or uses none like pilot, it still won't be its own 'profession' until the player has to actually 'play' it. I hold out hope that the Devs will realize how unique and fun this character class in SWG is, and do a few things to make it worthwhile and viable. Until then, I keep my masteries of dance, music entertainer and ID and work on my piloting skills.

Being a pure entertainer doesn't keep you from rp and enjoyment of the galaxy far outside of cantinas. With the help of friends and guildmates, my cl 1 girl has managed to do some pretty incredible adventures, recently including some Kashyyyk quests and the Foe of the Gorax! All the cl 80s had fun keeping her alive and being her protectors, and it was alot more interesting for them than just tanking through yet another dungeon quest.

The difference in entertainer, artisan and combatant classesare what give this game a depth and texture no other can match, and is why I've been here two years ... maybe someone at SOE can see the beauty and value of that!

Another thing about pilot, you have 9 different routes of piloting that come with different missions, ships, etc. That's not the same with entertainer. Unless of course, you only allow people to become one type of entertainer, which I KNOW you guys don't want.

And, this is also exactly why I don't support separate skill pools. Let's say you get 125 combat and 125 non-combat. That is not fair to a lot of people. I complain alot about how the CU has destroyed hybrid viabilities. Having a divided skill point pool would destroy those players, and there are many, that do not want hybrid skills. Some players want to go all combat, or all crafter, or all entertainer. Some people want to go crafter/entertainer and have nothing to do with combat. If you have separate skill pools like that you are restricting some people's ability to play the game the way they want to play it. That is, unless you give people 250 skill points in entertainer, 250 in combat, and 250 in crafting, at which time the diversity of the game goes way down. And, giving people 250 points to spend in entertainer is the equivalent of making them cost 0 skill points. And, giving anything less than 250 for entertainer means that those who want to have all the entertainer skills won't be able to.

While I don't want EVERYONE to be an entertainer, I also don't want to take away the choice to be a full time entertainer. And, when you look at, separate skill point pools is just as damaging to some people, as the CU was to hybrids or non combat players. I just don't think this is a good idea.

The ONLY thing that I've seen mentioned that would work, the only thing that would not restrict anyone's choices, but at the same time would not make it so that entertainers become utterly useless by default because everybody is now an entertainer, is a reduction in skill points. It's fair, and it preserves choice and uniqueness.