Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Discussion Topic: Embolden and Enrage
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Vertexon
Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:15 pm
#1
I've been thinking about these two abilities lately, and wonder if (properly modified) they might give us a much needed boost (without further overpowering non-CH pets)? I'd really appreciate your thoughts on this.
Embolden Pets - Right now this is just a percentage stat buff for about 30 seconds (at which point the buff goes away). That could be useful if your pet is about to be incapped and you need to buy a few seconds to get into stim range. But in general, if you can win in 30 seconds with this skill, you were going to win anyway.
Enrage Pets - Puts your pet in the "Berserk" state, increasing both damage delivered and damage sustained. This is useful for wearing down an enemy if your pet isn't tanking. But since pets are usually used for tanking, the tradeoff (and short duration) tend not to be all that popular.
Now here are a few of my own ideas. No idea if any of this is actually doable... but does this sound like something that might help?
Embolden Pets - Keep the percentage stat buff. Add a percentage resist buff (with an upper cap) for the duration of the Embolden. Increase defense against state attacks (DOT, Intimidate, Warcry, etc) for the duration. Remove the cooldown timer so this can be recast after it fades in battle (at a steep HAM cost to the CH).
Enrage Pets - Keep the Berserk effect. Add a percentage damage increase (with an upper cap) for the duration of the Enrage. Increase pet attacks'Armor Piercing value from "None" to "Light" for the duration of the Enrage. Remove the cooldown timer so this can be recast after it fades in battle (at a steep HAM cost to the CH).
Opinions? Suggestions?
TheLoneBowler
Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:24 pm
#2
Vertexon wrote:
I've been thinking about these two abilities lately, and wonder if (properly modified) they might give us a much needed boost (without further overpowering non-CH pets)? I'd really appreciate your thoughts on this.
Embolden Pets - Right now this is just a percentage stat buff for about 30 seconds (at which point the buff goes away). That could be useful if your pet is about to be incapped and you need to buy a few seconds to get into stim range. But in general, if you can win in 30 seconds with this skill, you were going to win anyway.
Enrage Pets - Puts your pet in the "Berserk" state, increasing both damage delivered and damage sustained. This is useful for wearing down an enemy if your pet isn't tanking. But since pets are usually used for tanking, the tradeoff (and short duration) tend not to be all that popular.
Now here are a few of my own ideas. No idea if any of this is actually doable... but does this sound like something that might help?
Embolden Pets - Keep the percentage stat buff. Add a percentage resist buff (with an upper cap) for the duration of the Embolden. Increase defense against state attacks (DOT, Intimidate, Warcry, etc) for the duration. Remove the cooldown timer so this can be recast after it fades in battle (at a steep HAM cost to the CH).
Enrage Pets - Keep the Berserk effect. Add a percentage damage increase (with an upper cap) for the duration of the Enrage. Increase pet attacks'Armor Piercing value from "None" to "Light" for the duration of the Enrage. Remove the cooldown timer so this can be recast after it fades in battle (at a steep HAM cost to the CH).
Opinions? Suggestions?
Personally I never use either. In regards to the suggestions:
Embolden pets: Good, but if it is going to be a steep ham cost the benefits must be steep, or I will still never use it.
Enrage: I like the armor piercing idea, see above for HAM costs.
taloncard
Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:30 pm
#3
Used them 1 time to see what they do and found them pretty useless, so anything that makes them better I am all for.
Nhari
Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:43 pm
#4
Honestly, even those benefits won't be worth the HAM cost to me. If my pets are fighting, it's almost always because I'm unbuffed. HAM costs will kill unbuffed characters almost as quickly as enemies will. I'd rather see something like this:
- Enrage- berserk, longer duration, light armor-piercing, no cooldown time (all as presented in the initial idea)
- Embolden- clears status effects, instantaneous (no duration), slight cooldown time
- HAM cost- a percentage of the pet's HAM rather than a flat cost from the handler
The idea here is that the pet is the one executing the action, so the pet is the one whose HAM is reduced. By basing the cost on a percentage, it will be effective for any handler using any pet. If the cost is 5%, it can be used 20 times by someone whether they're using a dwarf nuna or a rancor.
Since the current form of embolden is a weak heal, that obviously would be counterproductive. Having a 5% HAM cost for an ability that restores HAM just wouldn't make sense. While an ability that removes status effects is of questionable usefulness (how problematic is it really when your pet is intimidated or blind?), it's something. Perhaps that effect could be reconsidered. The initial proposed idea of status effect resistance is fine (though again, status effects are not all that much of a problem), but how often does resistance work againt most things? Not very often. A status effect remover is guaranteed to do the trick.
In any case, a HAM cost to the pet helps the handler by keeping their HAM intact (and isn't that what tanking is all about?), the percentage costmakes it self-regulating (the more you use it, the weaker your pet becomes), and it'll ultimately add a bit more market for the BE community. Granted, BEs don't really need the business, but I felt it worth mentioning that it would benefit a profession outside our own. SOE loves that.
If the HAM cost is applied to the handler, I'll end up using these abilities the same amount I use them now- never.
Message Edited by Nhari on 07-13-2004 05:48 PM
raynedog
Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:00 pm
#5
Embolden Pets - Keep the percentage stat buff. Add a percentage resist buff (with an upper cap) for the duration of the Embolden. Increase defense against state attacks (DOT, Intimidate, Warcry, etc) for the duration. Remove the cooldown timer so this can be recast after it fades in battle (at a steep HAM cost to the CH).
I like this idea because the commandis fairly useless as it stands currently. Possibly this command could be tied to a pet special attack modefier as well? Up the chance of landing one or doing one? It seems currently that pet specials are very hit and miss so something to help that would be cool.
Enrage Pets - Keep the Berserk effect. Add a percentage damage increase (with an upper cap) for the duration of the Enrage. Increase pet attacks'Armor Piercing value from "None" to "Light" for the duration of the Enrage. Remove the cooldown timer so this can be recast after it fades in battle (at a steep HAM cost to the CH).
Yes again the command is currently fairly useless. Possibly to add to this pet specials do more dmg. So you can see my idea to add to your current idea is that one command incresses the chance for a special, the other incress the specials dmg if it hits. Goes with out saying you souldn't be able to both at the same time( currently I don't think you can but I never tried)
So all in all I like you idea very much, just would like to see a pet DOT or special attack modifer thrown in as well.
Dodece
Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:47 pm
#6
A very interesting idea and I advise everyone who reads this thread to give it a bump. Altering these commands in any way would be a low level buff to the profession, Add actual combat value to this line. Always an advocate of makeing every skill in the game worth something. Though personally I think makeing these skills more pvp oriented might be even better.
Embolden should make the creature more fearless, and more intimidateing to an opponent. In real life this would definately cause a person to lose willpower and focus. So a good idea might be A it acts like a stopping shot. Force the player to take cover, but since warcries and the lot break as soon as someone touches them. B make it a unique and utterly fun wounding attack. Make it do actual damage to willpower and focus. This would have a great advantage. Since if you blow those bars apart the player is left utterly jittered. Haveing 30 focus willpower wounds. While not an utter travesty does smart. It would be even better if it applied a pseudo counter buff. That smacks off willpower focus buffs. For a minute or so. Might not win you the fight, but it would definately embolden chs in combat.
Enrage would be better if it was less a damage attack, and more a evasion state. For thirty seconds the pet is near unhittable, because it is going nuts. Ever try to get your hands on someone flailing all over the place. The best part is even if its for thirty seconds. It gives a ch just a little more time to reap the profession rewards.
I think doing either of these would be good if it costed you a couple hundred mind points per pet. Neither one will give you the fight, but they would be worth doing. You embolden the pet the opponent gets terrified, and gets their ham bars penalized. Enrage the pet, and it will take just a little longer for the opponent to take the pet out of the equation.
Right now with super buffs in place this would work fine, and after the rebalance it would still work fine, because the ch is giveing up mind points to put the pets in these states. No need to change anything really after the combat rebalance. The best part is it would make pets less ignoreable. Make people less apt to just ignore them. If an area attack like meles can do fails miserably on a enraged pet. That would be a good thing, and if utterly ignoreing the pet might get you scared whitless while jumping a ch. Then you might try to defend your mind buffs with greater care.
Aakhperkare
Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:21 pm
#7
Vertexon wrote:
I've been thinking about these two abilities lately, and wonder if (properly modified) they might give us a much needed boost (without further overpowering non-CH pets)? I'd really appreciate your thoughts on this.
Embolden Pets - Right now this is just a percentage stat buff for about 30 seconds (at which point the buff goes away). That could be useful if your pet is about to be incapped and you need to buy a few seconds to get into stim range. But in general, if you can win in 30 seconds with this skill, you were going to win anyway.
Enrage Pets - Puts your pet in the "Berserk" state, increasing both damage delivered and damage sustained. This is useful for wearing down an enemy if your pet isn't tanking. But since pets are usually used for tanking, the tradeoff (and short duration) tend not to be all that popular.
Now here are a few of my own ideas. No idea if any of this is actually doable... but does this sound like something that might help?
Embolden Pets - Keep the percentage stat buff. Add a percentage resist buff (with an upper cap) for the duration of the Embolden. Increase defense against state attacks (DOT, Intimidate, Warcry, etc) for the duration. Remove the cooldown timer so this can be recast after it fades in battle (at a steep HAM cost to the CH).
Enrage Pets - Keep the Berserk effect. Add a percentage damage increase (with an upper cap) for the duration of the Enrage. Increase pet attacks'Armor Piercing value from "None" to "Light" for the duration of the Enrage. Remove the cooldown timer so this can be recast after it fades in battle (at a steep HAM cost to the CH).
Opinions? Suggestions?
I think for the size of the HAM cost and it's very short duration, the increases should be rather large. Like a 5K HAM boost and 20% resist boost.
And for Enrage Pets, the damage should be considerable. Say if a pet has abase damage of 520-530, the damage should increase by 920-930 with light armor piercing.
Good ideas...
DaBudo2
Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:53 pm
#8
Great suggestions!!!
Though define "steep HAM" cost. And which HAM bar? All 3? Would it drop our HAM so low that we would be too easily incapped? Would the commands be able to be used together and how often? That is, would HAM drop so low after recasting,for example,Embolden that wewould then be unable to recast it again - or unable to use/recast Enrage atthe same time?Um. Did that make sense? 
The potential problem with too steep of a HAM cost is that we might be able to use the commands only on one pet for just one fight. And then not be able to do anything else for several minutes.For thecommands to be practically useful, we have to be able to use them more than just occasionally. Maybe have an Embolden, Rage I and II. Or even I, II, and III. Each one requiring less HAM to use. And then when one reaches Master Creature Handler, he/she takes even less of a hit to their HAM. (That I'm an MCH has nothing to do with that suggestion either *cough*)
BlindTyldak
Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:07 pm
#9
I'd much rather see them FIX overpowered non-CH pets than worry about whether or not any changes will affect them. Discussing skill changesso that they don't affect something that is broken and is supposed to be repaired is pretty backwards. They should fix it, and then we can discuss changes needed to systems that are then working as intended.
Message Edited by BlindTyldak on 07-13-2004 10:08 PM
Suenr
Tue Jul 13, 2004 11:48 pm
#10
Depends on the HAM cost on whether those would be useful, but if I used them both twice, they would be more useful than the current ones.
TsiyaAma
Tue Jul 13, 2004 11:56 pm
#11
BlindTyldak wrote:
I'd much rather see them FIX overpowered non-CH pets than worry about whether or not any changes will affect them. Discussing skill changesso that they don't affect something that is broken and is supposed to be repaired is pretty backwards. They should fix it, and then we can discuss changes needed to systems that are then working as intended.
Message Edited by BlindTyldak on 07-13-2004 10:08 PM
ok, I'm confuzzled...did I miss something here?
enigma_writer
Wed Jul 14, 2004 4:11 am
#12
I like it.
These commands who be now have more benefits and might be benefitial in pvp situations as well as pve. I would like to see embolden not just buff pets but also create a higher resistance to attacks making the pet a tougher fight for approximately 30 seconds. This would be useful if pets are close to dieing and you want to give them higher endurance. I think instead of making a cool down timer make it like many of the other skills such as force of will or jedi regeneration where a specific time would have to go by before could be used again. Since mounts after slow down are able to gallop after 5 minutes I would think the 5 minute time table would be an appropriate time span.
Enrage Pet should increase not only the dmg but the speed at which it attacks. Perhaps in this state the pet will not retreat in battle even if it is close to dieing and attack specials would be produced constantly. The pet however once the fight is done would need a cool down time and the ability likewise could not be used again for 5 minutes.
I think by creating the time gap it will make the master ch strategize when they wish to use these abilities and to make it even more desireable both abilities should be allowed to be used together. Or perhaps the handler can chose to enrage their pets followed by embolding them.
I know this is off topic but I would like to see the special attack and ranged attack commands fixed.
Milteck (BEAST)
Master CH
Rare Pet Collector
Galactic CH Guild_Radiant
enigma_writer
Wed Jul 14, 2004 4:20 am
#13
Oh my 30 second time span for embolden was just a time frame I thought of to illustrate my point and would like it to be much longer.
Since riding mounts with gallop lasts for about 5 minutes I think the suggested changes to embolden and enrage should have a duration of 5 minutes. Then a cool down time of 5 minutes before the ability could be used again.I think those kind of time numbers combined with increase productivity of the commands would justify an acceptible ham loss for creature.
Milteck (BEAST)
Master CH
Rare Pet Collector
Galactic CH Guild_Radiant
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