Creature Handler Archive
Thread: To kill or be killed...the jedi CH mind tricks affect YOU!
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KJFett
Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:45 am
#1
We MCHs have pets that we caught (either from a vendor 
or the wild) and raised from their youth to be our companions in all that we do in this game...be it travel, combat, exploring or even entertaining. We named them. We trained them in the commands we know. They have saved us in combat, and we have stepped in and saved them a time or two as well. 
or the wild) and raised from their youth to be our companions in all that we do in this game...be it travel, combat, exploring or even entertaining. We named them. We trained them in the commands we know. They have saved us in combat, and we have stepped in and saved them a time or two as well. Now we are faced with a situation where a jedi can step in and with the click of a button, remove that bond we have developed with our friends. In a heartbeat, the companion we have fought and played beside for months is suddenly turned against us. Suddenly the one thing we fear even more than our pet losing a vitality point has been thrust upon us. Another player has forced us to chose between.....
Killing our friend
or being killed by them.
Why would ANYONE see this as a viable skill that works well in this game? These pets are NOT just another Scatter pistol or LS that decays everyday and will have to be replaced next week anyways. We each have had many advetures with our pets. Advetures that we still remember even as far back as July and August in some cases.
This needs to be changed. We should not have to chose between killing our pet or being killed by them. We are Creature Handlers. Our pets are as devoted to us as we are to them. These aren't some wild creatures that a jedi happened to come across. In the least, this jedi skill should be restricted to PVE, and when attempted to be used in PVP, the system should say "This pet appears to be too devoted to its owner to turn it against them"
Anything less is a slap against the very nature that makes CHs able to have pets.
Message Edited by KJFett on 07-06-2004 01:15 PM
PoilDeCarotte
Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:09 pm
#3
Incredible!
You know what?
In some other threads (BlindTyldak can confirm this ), I simply said that I do not see the big issue in this change (or no change because it was already there but not used or completely useless or because CHs did not PvP?)... but now... you stated it in a way that I feel sad for my pet if I run into the situation 
), I simply said that I do not see the big issue in this change (or no change because it was already there but not used or completely useless or because CHs did not PvP?)... but now... you stated it in a way that I feel sad for my pet if I run into the situation I am yet not convinced of the big deal,but I'm starting to think that they could indeed restrict this to PvE because "This pet appears to be too devoted to its owner to turn it against them".
For me, it made sense that jedis can control an animal... but like you said we are already controling them, so they would have to have a stronger control than ours... the Force can do anything.
Now I'm wondering...
- If this will realy affect our pets, will there be any Force sensitive skill allowing us to have a better control on our pet, so a jedi cannot turn it against us?
- Is this the reason why they have removed the Vitality decay for PvP (because we would have to kill our pets, removing decay makes it somewhat more easy for us to live with)?
- Where is the limit in the game if Force can do anything?
- Will we all have to spend some skill points on FS skills?
Now I am lost on what I have to think about this...
There is something I don't get: from what I read, this Mind Trick ability is in the game for month, even before the big CH nerf (I came in game after this patch). Was it never used? Why is this poping up from nowhere? Because there will be more jedis?
I am missing something here.
BlindTyldak
Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:20 pm
#4
It was never used because of several factors. We didn't engage in PvP with the pet vitality issue, so they couldn't use it on us. They were in hiding, and never had the opportunity. it made no point to use it, because pets were so weak.
Now that they are in the open, we can PvP, and the reballance is a couple of months away, it has become an issue.
And yes, I can surely confirm what you said. 
I don't like the idea of it being an FS thing to control your pet better, because as it is its starting to look like everyone will have to be FS to compete in this game as it is, be it a crafter, doctor, what have you. I suggest everyone check out a character builder to see what I'm referring to. I've said though that I (personally, not everyone agrees) would be content that if at Master CH our pets became immune to mind control. At Master, I would think that our pets would be devoted enough to us not to be influenced by Jedi. They're not stupid.
KJFett
Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:31 pm
#5
PoilDeCarotte wrote:
Incredible!
You know what?
In some other threads (BlindTyldak can confirm this
I am yet not convinced of the big deal,but I'm starting to think that they could indeed restrict this to PvE because "This pet appears to be too devoted to its owner to turn it against them".
For me, it made sense that jedis can control an animal... but like you said we are already controling them, so they would have to have a stronger control than ours... the Force can do anything.
Now I'm wondering...
- If this will realy affect our pets, will there be any Force sensitive skill allowing us to have a better control on our pet, so a jedi cannot turn it against us?
- Is this the reason why they have removed the Vitality decay for PvP (because we would have to kill our pets, removing decay makes it somewhat more easy for us to live with)?
It doesn't seem as if this is working right yet..many of us are still seeing our pets lose Vitality.
- Where is the limit in the game if Force can do anything?
- Will we all have to spend some skill points on FS skills?
Mind tricks only work on the weak minded. Those with strong minds are not swayed by them. As a MCH...our pets have full and complete loyalty to us as we do to them. A strong mind doesn't mean smart in this case. It means not easily swayed from its core beliefs. The jedi would have better luck tricking theCH into storing the pet than getting either to turn on the other.
Now I am lost on what I have to think about this...
There is something I don't get: from what I read, this Mind Trick ability is in the game for month, even before the big CH nerf (I came in game after this patch). Was it never used? Why is this poping up from nowhere? Because there will be more jedis?
I am missing something here.
I imagine the issue is more in that jedi could never go above 4,4,4,4 guardian...and for the mst part only jedi could see what abilities existed above that. It's not like regular professions that we can all easily see. Now that jedi are running all over and everyone has better access to see what skills are there...its hitting the boards.
MrHawat
Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:34 pm
#6
There is something I don't get: from what I read, this Mind Trick ability is in the game for month, even before the big CH nerf (I came in game after this patch). Was it never used? Why is this poping up from nowhere? Because there will be more jedis?
I am missing something here.
Yes, you are missing something. With this patch, they have nerffed BH so badly that they reduced the skill point requirements. They fooled with the TEF so that Jedi no longer have to train in seclusion. Now we have Jedi loot ninjas, Jedi farming any overt or TEFed player for xp, Jedi making the GCW a contest between Jedi who kill just about every other player with ease. Jedi soloing Krayts and every other thing the Dev's said they would not allow. They are now the ultimate FOTM.
From the CH point of view, for now, it is very unfair that we were singled out yet again. Most of us do not PVP because we can not. This little skill will all but elimate any benefit we might have gotten from the combat rebalance. We will be faced with a choice between killing a loyal long time companion and dying. No other profession faces this. A Jedi can not turn any other skill against any other profession. Yep, just proves how badly the Dev's hate us. This holiday weekend was a real wake up call for many professions, not just the 133t FOTM. The offical response is that CH is so gimped now that no Jedi would wast the skill points on the ability. For alot of us it is the principle of the thing. You can bet it would be gone in a hotfix if a Jedi could turn any weapon against the user with the user's skill level and ability and attack at the same time.
Geko26
Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:43 pm
#7
Lets remember a line from out favorite movies....
The Jedi Mind trick only works on the weak minded. (not a quote but you get the idea)
In my opinion my pet is NOT weak minded.... I have trained him and been with him/her from day one. No Jedi should be able to break this bond.... especially the bond between a MCH and his pets.
PoilDeCarotte
Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:50 pm
#8
Well, I'm gonna edit all the other posts 
I guess I did not see the whole thing a couple of hours ago... My apologizes if I sounded rude.
I guess I did not see the whole thing a couple of hours ago... My apologizes if I sounded rude.There is a slight chance for the skill not to work on pets. So, you suggest either to remove this skill or to make it so that MCH won't be affected? Second one would be my choice and the skill should become less successful when progressing through the CH tree.
Still not sure in fact... apparently, spending skill points in the Force tree is not so useful, only a few would go this path... for the few who choose this way, shouldn't they have some reward viable in PvP? Yes but why CHs? Why not give them the force to control a weapon and make it blast in the hands of the fighter?
Yeah... I see no end here, either tweak a profession or nerf another one
joined42904
Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:01 pm
#9
This notion of turning MCH pets against their handlers is just insane. It really shows how much the devs cater to jedi.
I agree with those who say that the bond between MCH and pet should be too strong for a jedi to interfere in PVP.
KJFett
Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:01 pm
#10
PoilDeCarotte wrote:
Well, I'm gonna edit all the other posts
*goes back through the boards to make sure they are changes*
There is a slight chance for the skill not to work on pets. So, you suggest either to remove this skill or to make it so that MCH won't be affected? Second one would be my choice and the skill should become less successful when progressing through the CH tree.
I might buy into the idea that this skill starts as more sucessful on Nov CHs and goes 100% ineffective at MCH, but even NovCHs have had their pets as while....seems it would only fit if the pet was still growing...say no chance as an adult...75% if it is 1 day old....but then you get into your next paragraph below....when does it stop? What next? Should Pistoleers worry about their weapons being ripped from their hands and used on them? I feel...remove it or make is PVE only..they have ample PVP skills available..these 2 changes won't kill them, but will save our profession.
Still not sure in fact... apparently, spending skill points in the Force tree is not so useful, only a few would go this path... for the few who choose this way, shouldn't they have some reward viable in PvP? Yes but why CHs? Why not give them the force to control a weapon and make it blast in the hands of the fighter?
Yeah... I see no end here, either tweak a profession or nerf another one
Grawarr
Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:07 pm
#11
When I first read about the Jedi mind trick against CH pets, I thought...COOL! OMG, I better be careful!!!
Now, I read the postings and true, if a Jedi takes control of our pet, it is like taking a gun/armor out of the hands of a BH (or other combat prof) and beating him/her over the head with it.
However, I LIKE the idea of a Jedi being able to 'possibly' control my pet - it ADDS to the aura of Jedi as being powerful Force wielders. I mean, come on...does EVERY prof have a chance against a Jedi???? NO!
I do think that a Master CH would have a higher chance for a Jedi mind trick against his/her pet to FAIL - make it a mod that increases as you climb the CH ladder - thus a Novice CH's pets will prety much ALWAYS get controlled, and a Master's pets have - maybe 25% chance to get controlled - something like that. This provides for the skill for Jedi AND for the better possibility of a counter by a Master CH (recognition for being a Master).
Face it folks, CH pets (other than natural rares) are EASIER to come by than high-end weapons and armor, and generally cost less to boot (whether obtaining from vendors, or taming in the wild).
I vote for keeping the Jedi's animal control abilities, BUT provide for a scaling within the CH tree structure so the higher you are in CH, the better chance you have of the Jedi's control not working.
raynedog
Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:10 pm
#12
I would like to say that the game seems devoid of any real time based advancement, so this would be a great oppertunity to add some time based content.
So, the longer you keep, use,have a pet the more loyal it is to you and becomes restiant to Jedi mind tricks, no this I can see as a more likley solution to the problem than the Devs removing the skill from jedi.
While we are at it, long time loyal pets should do thier special attacks more often, should hit closer to the upper range of the attacks more often and so on.
Some intresting things could be done with this( just brain storming here) but what if this loyalty was only for wild pets, and of course mixed with them actually giving us some wild pets that are near BE level that would be cool, it would give a viable differance between wild and BE pets. OR if it applyed to all pets, creatures, it may be cool to see a 25/50 loyalty stat that goes up like pet level over time. That is to say some pets may only have a 15 max but other master level pets would have a 50 max or something.
Good thinking on this idea I like it.
KJFett
Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:37 pm
#13
raynedog wrote:
I would like to say that the game seems devoid of any real time based advancement, so this would be a great oppertunity to add some time based content.
So, the longer you keep, use,have a pet the more loyal it is to you and becomes restiant to Jedi mind tricks, no this I can see as a more likley solution to the problem than the Devs removing the skill from jedi.
While we are at it, long time loyal pets should do thier special attacks more often, should hit closer to the upper range of the attacks more often and so on.
Some intresting things could be done with this( just brain storming here) but what if this loyalty was only for wild pets, and of course mixed with them actually giving us some wild pets that are near BE level that would be cool, it would give a viable differance between wild and BE pets. OR if it applyed to all pets, creatures, it may be cool to see a 25/50 loyalty stat that goes up like pet level over time. That is to say some pets may only have a 15 max but other master level pets would have a 50 max or something.
Good thinking on this idea I like it.
Now you are making a little more sense. I could go for the loyalty increase over time thing. As well as an increase as the CH goes up the CH tree. This could have huge benefits to the CH profession, as it is now tho...its bad. Either we work through these and get real content for all....or it needs to go. Because as it is..it's only bad for us and a greif on us. A class that has already been nerfed to the point that there should be a Nerf pet added to our Dpad upon training Novice.
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