Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Eradicate CH profession , put us out of our misery please
Actually, I do have something meanful to say
1) Mounts -- mounts are useful for hunting. Have you ever tried to gather 10k of animal meat by going from nest to nest? Running back to the car to go on to the next nest takes more time than an animal who follows you every step and actually helps you fight as well. Vehicles -> Useful for traversing large distances. Mounts -> Useful for traveling shorter distances with frequent stops.
2) The ones who PvP are, for the most part, masters of their elite combat professions. They're most likely fully doctor buffed, fully entetainer buffed, fully spice buffed, fully food buffed, and fully composite armored. Do you really have some expectation that your CL70 pet should beat this person, who for all intents and purposes is a CL140 combatant? In PvP, a player will completely ignore the pet anyways, kill the handler, and then proceed to kill the pet. So if you were any sort of fighter, you'd know to PvP with a pet that can disease and/or poison the attacker while you hammer away at him.
3) BE's are supposed to be able to make better pets than those that can be found in the world. Have you ever found a FWG pistol as loot that was better than one made by a weaponscrafter? (Don't mention legendary weapons because that will only show how bad your argument is)
4) Every pet does not run. Anyone who says that every pet runs on every occasion is way, way overexaggerating. Timid pets who lose a roll during combat, run. Overly aggressive pets who are mismatched against a mob will cause the mob to run, similar to the scare shots that ranged people have. The key here is to not mismatch your pets. The people complaining about this are the ones who do not understand how the system works.
5) How long does it take you to gather the resources to make a tent? How long does it take you to craft the tent? How long does it take you to find a place to drop the tent when you're standing next to a group of lairs in the wilderness? How long does it take you to go to your inventory, find the tent, and then call the camp? Maybe it is 28 seconds? Maybe it is 35 seconds? The point is that you make a 5 second sacrifice, or a 2 second savings in the time to call a pet so that EVERYONE, not just scouts, can call a pet, droid, vehicle ANYWHERE. I can't believe impatient people are making an issue out of waiting 2 seconds. It's silly when you think about it.
drastax5 wrote:
Why not just eradicate the CH profession ? It's almost totally useless . The only thing that works is taming, but what do you do with that critter you tamed ?
They give us mounts , but no-one uses them since vehicles were introduced .
They make pets useless for PvP , try whipping out a pet in a PvP battle and tell me I'm wrong.
Selling pets is nearly impossible , asa BE can make something alot better than you could ever find in the wild .
With the pets running , pets are now useless in even PVE . And now , I'm told the pets running is because some pets are cowards ? By some pets , does he mean every pet ? Is he saying the Bull Rancor , Arachne Widow and Mantigrue Screecher I searched high and low for , for weeks , are cowards ?
And now , to top it all off , they want to make us wait 30 seconds before our useless pets can be called ?
It's obvious by the miles of posts on these boards that the only ones who truly care are people who actually play CH , and we are a dying breed .
I have been seriously tempted to drop CH since the 3 straight hits with the nerf bat , but then what ? Pick up another profession that's gonna get jerked around in the same manner ? No . The lack of communication on serious bugs and issues , and the insults hurled our way by our Player Correspondent have sealed the deal for me .
Eradicate the CH profession , put me out of my misery please
To be honest , it's the least of my worries .
DeneziB wrote:
1) It takes me next to no time to get 10k meat running missions out of a player city using my speederbike and a cat that will keep up with it, then store the cat at the end and race back to town. I get to the lair faster, start combat quicker and get back quicker than is possible using a mount. Mounts are, at the moment, playing sub-optimally.
2) Who the heck said a player was CL140???? I am going to assume this is another 'fact' that got pulled from somewhere along with your theory on cowardly pets. Pet disease it totally irrelevant in PvP. Pet poison is virtually irrelevant in PvP. If you were any sort of fighter, you would know this already.
3) What does this have to do with anything at all?
4) I can make every single pet I have run away, almost without fail, simply by ordering a location change on him. I find it amusing that a BE has the nerve to tell experienced CH how pets behave. Here's a clue kiddo, I had been a master creature handler in SWG for over 4 months before you even bought it, please don't even try to tell me about the details of pet bahaviour in combat. The only person that doesn't understand how the system works in this discussion is you, I am afraid. Maybe all that commando experience of yours is getting you confused?
5) Lol - this bit just makes you look plain silly. Look - get a whole bunch of resources together, get one of those new fangled factory things - you know, boxy looking building, makes funny noises at you when you walk by them - now, use those resources to make a schematic, not just one tent and - here is the really clever part - make a whole bunch of crates of tents! There you go, not too difficult is it now. Cuts that 28 seconds of yours down to about, oh, 2 or 3 depending if you toolbar a tent or just go from inv. I can already call a pet in any municipal zone in zero seconds, and in any wild area in about 7 seconds, the 30 second delay is pointless and unnecessary - but since you are going to play a commando, I guess that won't be affecting you too much, will it now.
1) I'm talking about hunting the things that don't show up on a mission terminal ... going out into the wildernessand killing everything in your path to harvest meat. Running to and from a mission terminal is what I mean by "traversing large distances". Going from nest to nest is what I mean by "traversing short distances with frequent stops". If you were any kind of good hunter, you would know this.
2) A person fully doctor buffed, fully musician buffed, fully spice buffed, fully food buffed, wearing a full suit of 80% composite armor, healing himself,you do the math and tell me what this person's "effective" HAM is (i.e., how much damage this person will take before a person can take him down). I'm willing to wager it will be somewhere close to the HAM of a CL140 critter.
3) "Selling pets is nearly impossible , asa BE can make something alot better than you could ever find in the wild . " Someone wrote that. It was a response to his assertion that selling pets is impossible. Well, you're not suppsed to be selling pets better than a BE.
Sooty wrote:
1) It takes me next to no time to get 10k meat running missions out of a player city using my speederbike and a cat that will keep up with it, then store the cat at the end and race back to town. I get to the lair faster, start combat quicker and get back quicker than is possible using a mount. Mounts are, at the moment, playing sub-optimally.
2) Who the heck said a player was CL140???? I am going to assume this is another 'fact' that got pulled from somewhere along with your theory on cowardly pets. Pet disease it totally irrelevant in PvP. Pet poison is virtually irrelevant in PvP. If you were any sort of fighter, you would know this already.
3) What does this have to do with anything at all?
4) I can make every single pet I have run away, almost without fail, simply by ordering a location change on him. I find it amusing that a BE has the nerve to tell experienced CH how pets behave. Here's a clue kiddo, I had been a master creature handler in SWG for over 4 months before you even bought it, please don't even try to tell me about the details of pet bahaviour in combat. The only person that doesn't understand how the system works in this discussion is you, I am afraid. Maybe all that commando experience of yours is getting you confused?
5) Lol - this bit just makes you look plain silly. Look - get a whole bunch of resources together, get one of those new fangled factory things - you know, boxy looking building, makes funny noises at you when you walk by them - now, use those resources to make a schematic, not just one tent and - here is the really clever part - make a whole bunch of crates of tents! There you go, not too difficult is it now. Cuts that 28 seconds of yours down to about, oh, 2 or 3 depending if you toolbar a tent or just go from inv. I can already call a pet in any municipal zone in zero seconds, and in any wild area in about 7 seconds, the 30 second delay is pointless and unnecessary - but since you are going to play a commando, I guess that won't be affecting you too much, will it now.
"I can make every single pet I have run away, almost without fail, simply by ordering a location change on him."
This statement is absolutely 100% on the money.
Without failure, I can cause pets to start running by telling the pet to follow me after it has engaged in combat, then telling the pet to re-attack the creature/npc it was attacking.
This applies to every single pet in my datapad, BE or tamed, and it is 100% reproduceable.
Example: Today on Dant I was collecting meat because I'm a master BE.
If I send my pet to the lair to attack a creature, everything works fine. *ANY* pet in my datapad will go to the lair, attack the creature, then the other two quenkers join in (there are three per wave), my commando group mate hoses em down with fire and then we all harvest the meat.
If I use my pet to pull creatures from the lair to myself by telling the pet to attack, then telling the pet to follow, then telling it to attack again, then 100% of the time, the running and chasing starts and its impossible to regain control of the situation without hitting the creatures with snare traps.
It doesn't exactly take a genius to sit there and watch pets as they fight and jostle for position and then eventually start to run to realize it has nothing to do with courage or cowardice, its pure pathing, 100% pure pathing.
- Pahbi
MBE/MCH Chilastra
DeneziB wrote:
Actually, I do have something meanful to say
1) Mounts -- mounts are useful for hunting. Have you ever tried to gather 10k of animal meat by going from nest to nest? Running back to the car to go on to the next nest takes more time than an animal who follows you every step and actually helps you fight as well. Vehicles -> Useful for traversing large distances. Mounts -> Useful for traveling shorter distances with frequent stops.
I'l actually agree here. I use mounts more than vehicles. There aren't many people who think that way, though
2) The ones who PvP are, for the most part, masters of their elite combat professions. They're most likely fully doctor buffed, fully entetainer buffed, fully spice buffed, fully food buffed, and fully composite armored. Do you really have some expectation that your CL70 pet should beat this person, who for all intents and purposes is a CL140 combatant? In PvP, a player will completely ignore the pet anyways, kill the handler, and then proceed to kill the pet. So if you were any sort of fighter, you'd know to PvP with a pet that can disease and/or poison the attacker while you hammer away at him.
Yes, very good! Why should a teras kasi master be able to beat a master CH? We've both acheived mastery, and technically CH costs more skill points to master. Not taking skill points into account (which would tip power our way), we should be a perfectly even match. We should be able to sompensate for all those buffs and armor in some way. Why is CH prevented from doing this? Why can they simply bypass our pet to easily kill the handler? You seem to be understanding.
3) BE's are supposed to be able to make better pets than those that can be found in the world. Have you ever found a FWG pistol as loot that was better than one made by a weaponscrafter? (Don't mention legendary weapons because that will only show how bad your argument is)
That is, unfortunately, probably true. I think the CH profession would be much better off if Bio-Engineers weren't in the game. (Note that i am NOT bashing BE and do NOT think they should be removed. they're a good profession for the game as a whole, but they take some fun from CH.) looting a weapon and taming a pet are two very different experiences. A non-CH may not understand, but the actual taming of the pet is likely the best part of the profession. You mentioned legendary loot - these should be equivalent to rare pets. Why should an INCREDIBLY rare pet such as the Bull Rancor (i think it's tougher to find than legendary weapons, but I'm not sure.) be so much weaker than a BE pet? No rares are worthwhile from what I've heard.
4) Every pet does not run. Anyone who says that every pet runs on every occasion is way, way overexaggerating. Timid pets who lose a roll during combat, run. Overly aggressive pets who are mismatched against a mob will cause the mob to run, similar to the scare shots that ranged people have. The key here is to not mismatch your pets. The people complaining about this are the ones who do not understand how the system works.
Made much worse in the last patch. everything runs much more often now. This is generally believed to be an issue with pets trying to move into their ideal range. Powers of pets and mobs is irrelevant. Stormtrooper run in terror from my wrixes, but meatlumps stand their ground. Graul will flee from a durni, whereas a carrion spat will hold it's ground to a rancor. (that was pre-publish, mind you. everything runs now.) I think you misunderstand how the system works.
5) How long does it take you to gather the resources to make a tent? How long does it take you to craft the tent? How long does it take you to find a place to drop the tent when you're standing next to a group of lairs in the wilderness? How long does it take you to go to your inventory, find the tent, and then call the camp? Maybe it is 28 seconds? Maybe it is 35 seconds? The point is that you make a 5 second sacrifice, or a 2 second savings in the time to call a pet so that EVERYONE, not just scouts, can call a pet, droid, vehicle ANYWHERE. I can't believe impatient people are making an issue out of waiting 2 seconds. It's silly when you think about it.
I'm sitting in town as an overt rebel (which would make me an idiot if I'm a CH, see above). I see a red dot approaching me on the radar. I prepare to engage the incoming imperial player.
"Pet arriving in 30 seconds"
The imp comes around the corner. I see he is unarmed. he gives me a quizzical look.
"Pet arriving in 25 seconds"
The imp instantly whips out a T-21. Odd he didn't have to search through his backpack for 30 seconds.
"Pet arriving in 20 seconds"
He sees my MCH title, chuckles, and realises he can take his time. he eats some spice, goes prone, takes cover, and aims.
"Pet arriving in 15 seconds"
Imperial player fires 3 shots into my head. i have been incapacitated.
"Pet arriving in 10 seconds"
He gets up, slowly walks over to me, and /chuckles.
"Pet arriving in 5 seconds"
I am deathblown.
"Pet calling cancelled"
A PvP engagement can easily last under 30 seconds. We have no chance to retaliate and grab our weapon, whereas anyone else can switch weapons instantly. It's the same for thatWrixwho aggros you while you're riding your mount (who cannot run away; his gallop his expired). Aother combat class wouldn't have must problem. We'd be dead.
Oops. I didn't have time to respond to all of your nonsense, ... so here's the rest:
4) Well I don't know about the "location change" thing, as I 've never tried it. All I know is that all the pets I've ordered into combat have NEVER 100% run away. Perhaps 5% of the time it will lose a roll and run away, but not 100%. It sounds like you've set up a very specific situation to exploit some kind of pathing bug to make your case for a 100% runaway. Sherlock, if doing what you do causes the pet to run away 100% of the time, then ... uhhh ... don't do it? I've been playing this game since June 27, and I have many alts with many different professions, but what does that have to do with anything in this thread?
5) Well, did the money to buy the factory magically appear in your bank account? Someone had to spend time to earn money to buy that factory? Does your factory follow you around so that you don't have to spend time running to it to make new tents? Someone had to spend time to run to the factory for a run of tents? Did the hide and bones to make the tents magically appear in your backpack? Someone had to spendsome time to run out and kill the animals to make the schematic to put into the factory. Sherlock, do you understand my point?
30 seconds is a very, very, VERY neglible time period to wait. I'm still a bit shocked that some people even consider this some kind of substantive wait period, and the ones saying that they're quitting the game because of waiting 30 seconds is just HILARIOUS! The benefit to this game of allowing non-scouts to call a camp anywhere is HUGE. The people complaining about this INSIGNIFICANT wait are the greedy ones who cannot see how this benefits the game overall.
Sooty wrote:
4) I can make every single pet I have run away, almost without fail, simply by ordering a location change on him. I find it amusing that a BE has the nerve to tell experienced CH how pets behave. Here's a clue kiddo, I had been a master creature handler in SWG for over 4 months before you even bought it, please don't even try to tell me about the details of pet bahaviour in combat. The only person that doesn't understand how the system works in this discussion is you, I am afraid. Maybe all that commando experience of yours is getting you confused?
5) Lol - this bit just makes you look plain silly. Look - get a whole bunch of resources together, get one of those new fangled factory things - you know, boxy looking building, makes funny noises at you when you walk by them - now, use those resources to make a schematic, not just one tent and - here is the really clever part - make a whole bunch of crates of tents! There you go, not too difficult is it now. Cuts that 28 seconds of yours down to about, oh, 2 or 3 depending if you toolbar a tent or just go from inv. I can already call a pet in any municipal zone in zero seconds, and in any wild area in about 7 seconds, the 30 second delay is pointless and unnecessary - but since you are going to play a commando, I guess that won't be affecting you too much, will it now.
1) Lol - my missions are less than 500m from my start point, don't blame me if you wander around aimlessly hoping to find things. Actually, I expect you are one of these that goes around the outside of of cities and outposts killing other peoples mission lairs, as that is the only way to get a reasonable rate of kills. Wandering around from lair to lair hoping to find the right thing is hopelessly slow.
DeneziB wrote:
1) I'm talking about hunting the things that don't show up on a mission terminal ... going out into the wildernessand killing everything in your path to harvest meat. Running to and from a mission terminal is what I mean by "traversing large distances". Going from nest to nest is what I mean by "traversing short distances with frequent stops". If you were any kind of good hunter, you would know this.
2) A person fully doctor buffed, fully musician buffed, fully spice buffed, fully food buffed, wearing a full suit of 80% composite armor, healing himself,you do the math and tell me what this person's "effective" HAM is (i.e., how much damage this person will take before a person can take him down). I'm willing to wager it will be somewhere close to the HAM of a CL140 critter.
3) "Selling pets is nearly impossible , asa BE can make something alot better than you could ever find in the wild . " Someone wrote that. It was a response to his assertion that selling pets is impossible. Well, you're not suppsed to be selling pets better than a BE.
Sooty wrote:
1) It takes me next to no time to get 10k meat running missions out of a player city using my speederbike and a cat that will keep up with it, then store the cat at the end and race back to town. I get to the lair faster, start combat quicker and get back quicker than is possible using a mount. Mounts are, at the moment, playing sub-optimally.
2) Who the heck said a player was CL140???? I am going to assume this is another 'fact' that got pulled from somewhere along with your theory on cowardly pets. Pet disease it totally irrelevant in PvP. Pet poison is virtually irrelevant in PvP. If you were any sort of fighter, you would know this already.
3) What does this have to do with anything at all?
4) I can make every single pet I have run away, almost without fail, simply by ordering a location change on him. I find it amusing that a BE has the nerve to tell experienced CH how pets behave. Here's a clue kiddo, I had been a master creature handler in SWG for over 4 months before you even bought it, please don't even try to tell me about the details of pet bahaviour in combat. The only person that doesn't understand how the system works in this discussion is you, I am afraid. Maybe all that commando experience of yours is getting you confused?
5) Lol - this bit just makes you look plain silly. Look - get a whole bunch of resources together, get one of those new fangled factory things - you know, boxy looking building, makes funny noises at you when you walk by them - now, use those resources to make a schematic, not just one tent and - here is the really clever part - make a whole bunch of crates of tents! There you go, not too difficult is it now. Cuts that 28 seconds of yours down to about, oh, 2 or 3 depending if you toolbar a tent or just go from inv. I can already call a pet in any municipal zone in zero seconds, and in any wild area in about 7 seconds, the 30 second delay is pointless and unnecessary - but since you are going to play a commando, I guess that won't be affecting you too much, will it now.
Haha. Since we're engaging in a little creative writing, here's myattempt of authorship...
I'mstrolling through town as an overt rebel. I just mastered TK and I'm feeling a bit trigger happy and anxious to show off my new skills by owning a few rebels. I see a single red dot on my radar ... it's an overt TKM!
I approach him, ...
I'm120 meters away, ... how come he's not running? He MUST see me on radar by now, ...
I'm65 meters away, ... hmmm, he's still not doing anything. Shouldn't he be running towards me to engage?
I'm 35 meters away, ...
25 meters away, ...
20 meters away, ...
I start to move my finger to my warcry hotkey to open the engagement, ...
Wait, ... what's he doing? He's doing something ...
Damn, he just pulled out three CL23 bearded jaxes from his datapad! I look at my combat spam (paraphrased):
(Larry) poisons you with strong poison.
(Moe) Hits you for 500 damage.
(Curly) diseases you with strong disease.
MasterTKImperialDude knocks you down.
You're dizzy and can't get up.
MasterTKImperialDude walks back a few meters to watch you dizzy and fall back down as his pets disease the heck out of you.
(Curly)'s disease eats away 50% of your health bar.
You become incapacitated.
MasterTKImperialDude deathblows you.
You clone with 50% wounds.
Anyhow ...
If MasterTKImperialDude had to wait 30 seconds before pulling out his pets, then the engagement would have went differently.
OdiousEncounter wrote:
I'm sitting in town as an overt rebel (which would make me an idiot if I'm a CH, see above). I see a red dot approaching me on the radar. I prepare to engage the incoming imperial player.
"Pet arriving in 30 seconds"
The imp comes around the corner. I see he is unarmed. he gives me a quizzical look.
"Pet arriving in 25 seconds"
The imp instantly whips out a T-21. Odd he didn't have to search through his backpack for 30 seconds.
"Pet arriving in 20 seconds"
He sees my MCH title, chuckles, and realises he can take his time. he eats some spice, goes prone, takes cover, and aims.
"Pet arriving in 15 seconds"
Imperial player fires 3 shots into my head. i have been incapacitated.
"Pet arriving in 10 seconds"
He gets up, slowly walks over to me, and /chuckles.
"Pet arriving in 5 seconds"
I am deathblown.
"Pet calling cancelled"
A PvP engagement can easily last under 30 seconds. We have no chance to retaliate and grab our weapon, whereas anyone else can switch weapons instantly. It's the same for thatWrixwho aggros you while you're riding your mount (who cannot run away; his gallop his expired). Aother combat class wouldn't have must problem. We'd be dead.