CUEmu - Thread Posts

Termis

Thu May 19, 2005 3:11 am

I keep seeing posts saying how having 2 or 3 pets out isn't as effective as using 1because of how dmg is calculated by cl and such. How a low cl pet will do far worse against a high cl enemy because they will take far more dmg and do far less dmg because of the cl.

From what I've seen the past few weeks I think this is completely false.

Obviously a single low cl pet isn't going to stand up to a higher cl enemy as they have less health/dmg/resists. That's expected as a low cl pet should not be equal to a high cl enemy, but if the combined cl of your 2 or 3 pets isnear your enemy's clthen you should have an equal fight, meaning that cl isn't affecting the pets in such a negative way as to be unbalancing.

me - cl80 mcarbine/masterCH

tests done using only embolden pets, as I never go a fight without using it I thought it would make better results for actual use in the field

embolden adds 15% health to your pet

fightsA

cl70 kinad baz nitch -vs- cl70 kinad baz nitch

equal fights, my pet won a few, enemy won a few always close

fightsB

cl69 mature reptilian flyer -vs- cl70 kinad baz nitch

reptilian flyer lost each fightpretty badly

fightsC

2x cl23 greater sludge panthers&cl19 famished sludge panther-vs- cl70 kinad baz nitch

first fightpanthers won, no deaths, 2 hurt

second fightfsp and 1 gspdead, last one full health

third fightfsp dead other 2 near full health

fourth fight fsp dead, onepartially wounded

I did use many of my other pets but I didn't write them down until halfways through and I was like, hmm, I should write this down, lol. Usually was the same results though. Tamed cl60-70 pets all fairing equally 1on1 vs the nitch, some beating them, some losing out.

When the nitch would attack one of them continuously it would usually kill it, usually going after the fsp first,but by then it was getting hurt badly and would end up losing anyhow. If it attacked 2 or all 3 of mypanthers they'd regen fast enough to survive better.

I didn't write all the details down cause I didn't plan on posting this,was originally just a little note to myself. Next time I'll write down how long it takes to kill.

I've recently traded out the 3panthers for 3girly nargs and going to go test on the nitches once they're grown up. I hightly doubt they will be less effective than the gsps, hehe, which beat the cl70 nitch, even though they're low cl.

The cl didn't matter that much as thier total cl was 69 which did actually make them equal to the cl70 nitch, that seems right to me. So I believe all these claims of cl dmg/tohit calculations hurting low cl pets to be wrong.

[edit] ATTENTION!check out rest of my posts in this thread. Partially explains how cl affects our pets damage!

Message Edited by Termis on 05-21-2005 11:27 PM

Grambacca

Thu May 19, 2005 10:11 am

#2

Nice! Thanks for the info.

One question.....Were you grouped with your pets or not?

************************

Grambacca: The Gray Ghost

Mayor of Highland Citadel, Tatooine

Former MCH

~Wroshyyyr Warrior!~

************************

J'awa-Jones

The only player character Jawa in SWG!

.....

~Jawa Avenger!~

************************

Hardley

Thu May 19, 2005 10:27 am

#3

Thanks for the "real life" data ... good info! Now I have another question ... has anybody tried like three Female Narglatchs? They are "elite" creatures and altho' theirlevel is 22 they seem to have stats equivelant to maybe creatures with level 50-55. I have two that are still babies and am actively searching for a third. Their stats are - Difficulty Level: 22, Health: 7718, Attack Speed: 2.0, To Hit: 71, Damage: 65-321 ...

The execution date is set ... the tortured screams of tens of thousands of beloved pets and their masters will resonate throughout the galaxies ... cover your ears and cry!

Hardley's Oasis Bait Shop & Sushi Bar
2000m outside Mos Eisley on Tatooine /way 1893 -6057
Hardley Workin & Hydan Seek propritors

Hardley Workin: August 17, 2003-November 16, 2005 R.I.P.
Hydan Seek: March 25, 2004-November 24, 2005 R.I.P.

DaBudo2

Thu May 19, 2005 11:05 am

#4

Interesting, because my experience with 3 petshas been very different so far, though most of my testing has been against mobs in the CL78-82 range since those are the mobs I need the most help against (as CL 80 MCH).

What I found is that at first the 3 pets will out damage the one creature, sometimes able to get the creature down to half it's health.However, invariably one of my pets will get incapped, and after that it's just a matter of time before the other 2 go down. Possible three pets can fair well against lower level mobs, but I haven't found that they can stand up against the higher levels.

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Pickaroon - MCH, Master Pistoleer, Elder Geek
BOTHEN! WOOHOO!

Merib

Thu May 19, 2005 1:49 pm

#5

I am one of those that still believes the 1 or 2 higher level pets do much better than 3/ 20 something pets.

One thing to consider as a MCH/ Mcarbine, your CL is actually 54 not 80. It is 80 due to being a MCH...

Not that this makes a hill of beans to this particular discussion but interesting nonetheless.

What I have seen from my converted BE 20ish pets and my wild 20ish pets vs an 80 or higher; something like a DR trimmer commercial.

Ziiiing 1 down, Ziiiing there's 2.... I aint waiting for 3 and run like an 8 year old...

Examining the MOB we fought and it is near 75-80% healthy still (Mind you this is not a split 80 creature, that is another story...)

With my 1 level 69-70 we seem to do much better due to health management, keep in mind your milage may vary.

One note, go buy a few "combat robots..." they really help with aggro and seem to do as well if not much better.

My level 18 robot takes as good a beating as my 60'ish pets...

I miss my pets, my slobbering yet faithful protector named Cuddles the Rancor.

The SPCA said they won't sue for killing virtual animals...

-Devil-

Thu May 19, 2005 2:14 pm

#6

if you have 2 or 3 matched pets with equal damage ... the aggro should 'pingpong' between the pets to equal out the damage a bit ... but that doesnt always happen ...

on that note .. i have great luck with my CL 35 be rancor (pre cu dna 4th gen .. etc you know the drill) ... and my 2 cats that are cl 17 .. (same setup as the rancor) ... the rancor does a lot more damage then the others but has a LOT more health ... the two cats are just added dps ... that combo out damages anything else that i have currently ... i am not always a big fan of be pets .. but i havent found a good team yet that works like that ... from wild taming ...

--= 11.15.2005 / The Day The Pets Died =--

Freth

Thu May 19, 2005 2:20 pm

#7

I have used 3 female narglatches extensively. One thing I haven't done is let them attack without my intervention since I will always be there to help them. They are great pets. I went to Dath yesterday evening witha friend and we were taming different creatures. In the process we ended up killing all kinds of creatures. He has 3 female narglatches too, so we paired up and put 6 on a creature. You can imagine they died pretty quick. It was complete and total gravy to watch. If you have a CH friend, it's worth it to go out in a group with 6 narglatches. I'm happy with 3 of them so far. I'm able to kill most things easily.

Fah-Mmm · Wookiee · Gorath · Master Creature Handler · Master Rifleman

Hardley

Thu May 19, 2005 4:01 pm

#8

Freth wrote:
I have used 3 female narglatches extensively. One thing I haven't done is let them attack without my intervention since I will always be there to help them. They are great pets. I went to Dath yesterday evening witha friend and we were taming different creatures. In the process we ended up killing all kinds of creatures. He has 3 female narglatches too, so we paired up and put 6 on a creature. You can imagine they died pretty quick. It was complete and total gravy to watch. If you have a CH friend, it's worth it to go out in a group with 6 narglatches. I'm happy with 3 of them so far. I'm able to kill most things easily.

Man, it's posts like this that might keep me interested DISPITE THE CU ...the abovesounds like fun ...

The execution date is set ... the tortured screams of tens of thousands of beloved pets and their masters will resonate throughout the galaxies ... cover your ears and cry!

Hardley's Oasis Bait Shop & Sushi Bar
2000m outside Mos Eisley on Tatooine /way 1893 -6057
Hardley Workin & Hydan Seek propritors

Hardley Workin: August 17, 2003-November 16, 2005 R.I.P.
Hydan Seek: March 25, 2004-November 24, 2005 R.I.P.

Termis

Thu May 19, 2005 7:18 pm

#9

My cl was 80 being a master carband master ch, doesn't matter how you got there, if it says 80 by your name you are cl80, but anyhow...

...now I'm cl60 as I'm back to messing around with BE and also want to see the effects of being a lower cl CH.

so until someone posts some big number crunching tests... more tests from me!

now vs a cl59 critter cause now I'm cl60 and I don't want to die quick when my pets lose to a cl70, lol

all tests done from the SAME lair, all dgc's showed up cl59 and 6310 health

all tests done first with ungrouped pets, afterfirst fight would group them and fight again once or twice

desert gurreck charger in my tests show ~35% resistance to kin vs all my pets (swgcreatures lists 20% kin, guess they were buffed?)

me=cl60 masterBE/masterCH/masterscout/0020 ranger

used embolden again as I always use it so will give better "real world" results for what I'd really use

embolden gives 15% health

fights A

cl69 mature reptilian flyer -vs- cl59 desert gurreck charger

poor flyer dead! lost pretty badly and got the dgc down to 1/3 health

dmg done per attack= 157 out of 240 (90-390 in datapad)= 35% kin for dgc

dmg taken per attack = 184 out of 309 = 40% kin for flyer

fights A2 ... wierd ...

ok, so after theinitial A-E tests and figuring out kin resists I brought out the flyer again cause it didn't make sense to me that it lost with 40% kin when others beat it with less kin resistance, and...

flyer won with nearly half it's health..! wha??? ungrouped at first, then grouped for another fight,no changein dmg given or taken when grouped, it won all fights easily

keep in mind there wereno changesin the test, same pet, same lair, same cl enemy, same type of enemy, same everything.

dmg done per attack = 223 out of 339 = 34% kin for dgc (he did more dmg per attack)

dmg taken per attack = 184 out of 309 = 40% kinfor flyer (he took the same amount of dmg)

fights A3 (cl80 mastercarb/masterCH/4400bh)

same as A2

fights B

cl70 kinad baz nitch -vs- cl59 desert gurreck charger

nitch won each fight with about40% health left, ungrouped for first 2 fights, grouped for the last, no change

dmg done per attack = 225 out of 343(100-390 listed in datapad) = 34% kin for the dgc

dmg taken per attack = 181 out of 251= 41% kin for the baz

fight B2 ... weird..

after doing the flyer retest I tested all again and got...

dmg done per attack = 225 out of 343 = 34% kin for the dgc

dmg taken per attack = 134 out of 251= 47% kin for the baz (took less dmg, hmm..)

fight B3 (cl80 mastercarb/masterCH/4400bh)

same as B.. hmm?

fights C

cl50 rancor -vs- cl59 desert gurreck charger

fairly equal fights here, rancor won each of them with about 5-10% health left

dmg done per attack = 179 out of 272 (80-350 in datapad) = 34% kin for dgc

dmg taken per attack = 171 out of 229 = 25% kin for rancor

fights C2

same as C

fights C3 (cl80 mastercarb/masterCH/4400bh)

same as C

fights D

2x cl23 greater sludge panthers -vs- cl59 desert gurreck charger

here's our first multipet test, and suprisingly 1 gsp died when the dgc was just under 1/2 health

the other died when it was about 15%

this means that had I had 3 gsp's they would have killed the dgc with 1 gsp dead

stats are for a single gsp, meaning they were doing a total of 244dmg, had I had 3 that would be 366dmg.

dmg done per attack = 122 out of 186 each(50-260 in datapad) = 34% kin for dgc

dmg taken per attack = 298 out of 309 = 3% kin (3.56%) for gsp

fights D2

same as D

fights D3 (cl80 mastercarb/masterCH/4400bh)

same as D

fights E

1x cl22female narglatch -vs- cl59 desert gurreck charger

she won with about 10-15% health left consistantly. Wait, you can use 3? 148 x 3 = what? sorry not good at math.

dmg done per attack = 148 out of 226 (60-320 in datapad) = 35% kin for the dgc

dmg taken per attack = 217 out of 229 = 5% kin for the narg

fights E1-E3 (I had to check!)

same as E

fights E4-E6 (cl80 mastercarb/masterCH/4400bh)

same as E

I'm not here arguing that 3 pets are better than1 pet. What I am trying tofind out, and so far realizing, is that having 3 petshas it's benefits and isnot gimped because of cl calculations. Using 3 pets is still a viable alternative over having 1 single high cl pet. Having 1 pet will most likely tank better, be easier to manage being less of a hassle, and be more effective when fighting a group. Having 3 pets will do more dmg and will be useful if you're fighting things that aren't doing you much dmg or you want to take it down fast. This gives you more options than thinking you have to use 1 high cl pet because everyone says that a low cl pets aregimped by calculations, they aren't.

[edit] clarified dmg per attack and added pretty colours out of boredom

Message Edited by Termis on 05-20-2005 12:28 AM

Termis

Thu May 19, 2005 7:28 pm

#10

Oh I forgot to add.

In all the tests using my pets ungrouped at first then grouped for the next fights I neversaw a change in damage done, damage taken, or health left over when fight was finished. Grouping pets did not affect how well they fought.

This was especially noticed with the cl22 narg as she won the fight ungrouped on her own with 10-15% health left.

She won again grouped with me at cl60 with 10-15% health left a few times.

SHe won again grouped with me at cl80 with 10-15% health left a few more times.

Oh! I forgot to mention that also.

After doing the tests, then retesting them all, I respecc'd back to mastercarb/masterCH/4400bh, which put me back at cl80, so I could test to see if that made any difference in how my pets fought against the lower cl59 critterandnothing changed. I was still at the same exact lair, fighting the same exact critters, and using my same exact pets. No changes.

Message Edited by Termis on 05-19-2005 07:31 PM

DaBudo2

Thu May 19, 2005 7:49 pm

#11

hossp wrote:

one incaps because only one holds aggro..if the pets have a difference in damage the higher damage pet will hold the aggro..the other will remain untouched...

if the damage is equal than the aggro SHOULD alternate between pets, so they will take damage, but take turns getting hit

if you root/snare the target and take the aggro, then the pets sould remain relatively untouched, and effectively act as a "bleed"

But, see, therein lies the problem.I understand Termis to be saying thathis pets will win in combat without support from him.I'm notsaying that 3 pets are worthless - certainly they have value. They are, however, worthless as tanks. I have not found that I can successfully send my pets against higher level mobs (and I don't consider CL70 to be high level) - unless I do take aggro,of course.

A fundamental diffrencebetween pre and post CU is that before I needed my pets tokeep me alive - they tanked for me. Now, my pets need me tokeep them alive - I tank for them.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. G. Marx

Pickaroon - MCH, Master Pistoleer, Elder Geek
BOTHEN! WOOHOO!

Moakie

Thu May 19, 2005 9:47 pm

#12

Yeah pets need a /taunt command.. But that seems to be a highly valued command since you get that only with brawler. But oh well, can't expect that to change any time soon, devs are in some type of long hibernation.

-= I'd rather be riding my motorcycle =-

Portabelle

Thu May 19, 2005 10:56 pm

#13

Ok....here are my test results performed tonight.

Combat Test of Female Narglatch Trio

All tests are while grouped with my 3 female narglatch pets. I am CL80 – Master Rifleman, Master CH. My pets at the time of this test were Wrath CL 15, Fury CL 13 and Scorn CL 13. While I was grouped with the pets I did not assist them in anyway. I also did not use Embolden Pets for this test. I made a chat log of the combat text so actual damage delivered and taken by the pets could be examined. I’ve put the damage the pets delivered in BOLD text and the damage the pets received in ITALIC text. I have included just a small portion of each battle session to show the basic pattern of damage against that particular target. I was interested to see how the pet damage stats changed versus different CL levels and also different types of targets. And for the record….my 3 narglatch babies won every single battle without any help from me. A couple of times one of the girls was incapped but only after the target was less than 15% health and the remaining 2 girls finished them off every time. I will be taking them out soon to test against higher CL targets once the girls are full grown

Note that the pets got in more hits on targets that had a slower attack response time. For example the girls would get more than 1 hit a piece on the Kunga Warrior for every 1 hit he got in on them. But against the Huurtons and Voritors who struck faster they each got 1 hit a piece in for each hit delivered to them.

First Test – 3 Female Narglatch Vs. Horned Voritor CL 50

[Combat] (Fury) hits a horned voritor lizard 96 pts

[Combat] (Scorn) hits a horned voritor lizard 96 pts

[Combat] A horned voritor lizard hits (Fury) 199 pts

[Combat] (Wrath) hits a horned voritor lizard 112 pts

[Combat] (Fury) hits a horned voritor lizard 96 pts

[Combat] (Scorn) hits a horned voritor lizard 96 pts

[Combat] A horned voritor lizard hits (Fury) 199 pts

[Combat] (Wrath) hits a horned voritor lizard 112 pts

[Combat] (Fury) hits a horned voritor lizard 96 pts

[Combat] (Scorn) hits a horned voritor lizard 96 pts

Second Test – 3 Female Narglatch Vs. Huurton Howler CL 38

[Combat] A huurton howler hits (Scorn) 226 pts

[Combat] (Scorn) hits a huurton howler 109 pts

[Combat] (Fury) hits a huurton howler 109 pts

[Combat] (Wrath) hits a huurton howler 127 pts

[Combat] A huurton howler misses

[Combat] (Scorn) misses

[Combat] (Fury) misses

[Combat] (Wrath) hits a huurton howler 127 pts

[Combat] A huurton howler hits (Wrath) 226 pts

[Combat] (Scorn) hits a huurton howler 109 pts

Third Test – 3 Female Narglatch Vs. Kunga Warrior CL 44

[Combat] (Wrath) hits Imeraeg Havowoirn (a Kunga warrior) 119 pts

[Combat] Imeraeg Havowoirn (a Kunga warrior) hits (Wrath) 259 pts

[Combat] (Fury) hits Imeraeg Havowoirn (a Kunga warrior) 103 pts

[Combat] (Scorn) hits Imeraeg Havowoirn (a Kunga warrior) 103 pts

[Combat] (Wrath) hits Imeraeg Havowoirn (a Kunga warrior) 119 pts

[Combat] (Fury) hits Imeraeg Havowoirn (a Kunga warrior) 103 pts

[Combat] (Scorn) hits Imeraeg Havowoirn (a Kunga warrior) 103 pts

[Combat] Imeraeg Havowoirn (a Kunga warrior) hits (Wrath) 236 pts

[Combat] (Wrath) hits Imeraeg Havowoirn (a Kunga warrior) 119 pts

[Combat] (Fury) hits Imeraeg Havowoirn (a Kunga warrior) 103 pts

Fourth Test – 3 Female Narglatch Vs. Kunga Clan Leader CL 46

[Combat] (Scorn) hits Caecob (a Kunga clan leader) 100 pts

[Combat] (Wrath) hits Caecob (a Kunga clan leader) 117 pts

[Combat] Caecob (a Kunga clan leader) hits (Wrath) 212 pts

[Combat] (Fury) hits Caecob (a Kunga clan leader) 100 pts

[Combat] (Scorn) hits Caecob (a Kunga clan leader) 100 pts

[Combat] (Wrath) hits Caecob (a Kunga clan leader) 117 pts

[Combat] (Fury) hits Caecob (a Kunga clan leader) 100 pts

[Combat] Caecob (a Kunga clan leader) has caused (Wrath) to take 43 points of bleeding damage.

[Combat] Caecob (a Kunga clan leader) hits (Wrath) 134 pts

[Combat] (Scorn) hits Caecob (a Kunga clan leader) 100 pts

[Combat] (Wrath) hits Caecob (a Kunga clan leader) 117 pts

[Combat] (Fury) hits Caecob (a Kunga clan leader) 100 pts

[Combat] (Scorn) hits Caecob (a Kunga clan leader) 100 pts

[Combat] (Wrath) hits Caecob (a Kunga clan leader) 117 pts

[Combat] (Fury) hits Caecob (a Kunga clan leader) 100 pts

[Combat] Caecob (a Kunga clan leader) has caused (Wrath) to take 43 points of bleeding damage.

Note that the Kunga spends more time to cast a bleed attack on one pet so the pets are able to hit sometimes 2x a piece for each hit the Kunga delivers.

Fifth Test – 3 Female Narglatch Vs. Fierce Piket Protector CL 43

[Combat] (Wrath) hits a fierce piket protector 122 pts

[Combat] A fierce piket protector hits (Wrath) 230 pts

[Combat] (Scorn) hits a fierce piket protector 105 pts

[Combat] (Fury) hits a fierce piket protector 105 pts

[Combat] (Wrath) hits a fierce piket protector 122 pts

[Combat] A fierce piket protector hits (Wrath) 230 pts

[Combat] (Scorn) hits a fierce piket protector 105 pts

[Combat] (Fury) misses

[Combat] (Wrath) hits a fierce piket protector 122 pts

[Combat] A fierce piket protector hits (Wrath) 230 pts

[Combat] (Scorn) hits a fierce piket protector 105 pts

[Combat] A fierce piket protector hits (Wrath) 230 pts

[Combat] (Wrath) hits a fierce piket protector 122 pts

[Combat] (Fury) hits a fierce piket protector 105 pts

[Combat] (Scorn) hits a fierce piket protector 105 pts

[Combat] A fierce piket protector hits (Wrath) 230 pts

Sixth Test – 3 Female Narglatch Vs. Huurton Huntress CL 33

[Combat] (Wrath) hits a huurton huntress 134 pts

[Combat] A huurton huntress hits (Wrath) 170 pts

[Combat] (Fury) hits a huurton huntress 115 pts

[Combat] (Scorn) hits a huurton huntress 115 pts

[Combat] (Wrath) hits a huurton huntress 134 pts

[Combat] A huurton huntress hits (Wrath) 170 pts

[Combat] (Fury) hits a huurton huntress 115 pts

[Combat] (Scorn) hits a huurton huntress 115 pts

[Combat] (Wrath) hits a huurton huntress 134 pts

[Combat] A huurton huntress hits (Wrath) 170 pts

[Combat] (Fury) hits a huurton huntress 115 pts

[Combat] (Scorn) hits a huurton huntress 115 pts

[Combat] (Wrath) hits a huurton huntress 134 pts

Seventh Test – 3 Female Narglatch Vs. Thune Herd Leader MISSION CL 78

This was a CL 78 mission from the terms. Don’t know what the natural CL is for a Thune Herd Leader. In this battle Wrath took most of the hits and was incapped when the Thune was down to about 15% but the other 2 girls finished him off.

[Combat] (Scorn) hits a thune herd leader 74 pts

[Combat] (Wrath) hits a thune herd leader 86 pts

[Combat] (Fury) hits a thune herd leader 74 pts

[Combat] A thune herd leader hits (Wrath) 248 pts

[Combat] (Scorn) hits a thune herd leader 74 pts

[Combat] (Wrath) hits a thune herd leader 86 pts

[Combat] (Fury) hits a thune herd leader 74 pts

[Combat] A thune herd leader misses

[Combat] (Scorn) hits a thune herd leader 74 pts

[Combat] (Wrath) hits a thune herd leader 86 pts

[Combat] (Fury) hits a thune herd leader 74 pts

[Combat] A thune herd leader misses

[Combat] (Scorn) hits a thune herd leader 74 pts

[Combat] (Wrath) hits a thune herd leader 86 pts

[Combat] (Fury) hits a thune herd leader 74 pts

[Combat] A thune herd leader hits (Wrath) 248 pts

[Combat] (Scorn) hits a thune herd leader 74 pts

[Combat] (Wrath) hits a thune herd leader 86 pts

[Combat] (Fury) hits a thune herd leader 74 pts

[Combat] A thune herd leader hits (Wrath) 248 pts

Bottom line is I think these little girls do just AWESOME. They are aggressive and fast and do consistent damage with very few misses. Regen is fast and for the most part follow commands very well. They have a few problems around houses where they get stuck from time to time but not so much in open areas. I think when all 3 are full grown they will definitely be able to handle a CL80 target.

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