Community Relations Archive
Thread: Communication Breakdown: TEF Removal
PixellJ wrote:
I don't see how gank squads and people screaming about them in game adds to immersion, sorry. C'mon, give SOE a break here. I'm not a fan of them by any means, but they've ponied up and gave us info, what we've been screaming about. To ask them for our collective permission isn't feasible nor is it deserved. I for one feel that things move too slowly as it is with them. to get mired in debate with every single subscriber certainly wouldn't help, especially with some of the crack babies trolling these boards.
People equate paying to play as the same as owning stock. It isn't. It's SOE's/LA's game. they own the rights, not anyone who pays to play. "If it weren't for us paying customers..." bla bla bla. That's true for any product, not just pay to play schemes. you are awarded no additional right over and above any other bought product, like a game with a free online component. your only real voice is your dollar. Pay or don't, but if you do, it's on their terms, because the game is their property. By paying, you've purchased a block of login time for a set period. You have not bought shares in the future.
Addendum: I would like add some additional comments on this thread, because my opinion has changed somewhat since I originally posted it. I've stated this furtherdown, but I know it hard to read all of the comments some time, so thats why I am adding it to the top.
First, I have changed the title of the thread from Communication Meltdown, to Communication Breakdown. In hindsight,meltdown is a little bit too harsh of a word. So to thatextent, I apologize toTH, Calandryll and /eatcrow. 
lol. The thread was started with a sincere, if overzealous,concern about the communication on this issue.However, it should havebeenhave been posted in a more constructive tone.
Second, I still think that an inconcept thread would have been helpful on this issue andanyotherissuethat is as fundamental and controversial as the TEF removal. As many others have pointed out,there was extensive discussion of the TEF issue among players.The trust of my complaint was and is that there was not a post by the Devs at the time they decided to make this change, rather than waiting until significant work had been done. TEFs have been in the game sincelaunch and players have been complaining about and defending them since then. Given this fact, prior to Wednesday, players not bothered by the TEF and thus not seeking out information on them, would have no reason to suspect that the Devs were considering removing TEFs at this point in time.
The reason I think such an in concept thread announcing that the Devs should have been made sooner, is that the further along in the development process is made, the less willing and able the Devs are to accomodate player feedback. Perhaps because so many PvE players are for this change,feedback at that time wouldn't have made a difference. But this principal doesn't just apply to this change, I am asking that such an in concept thread be made for every fundamental and controversial change.
Most people disagree and I accept that. But please ask yourself is your disagreement based not on the communication issue, but because you want to remove TEFs. I am not saying everyone is doing that, but I bet some of the * ratings i have received were.
Message Edited by jphillips1868 on 02-07-2005 10:30 AM
Message Edited by Gou-Geo on 02-03-2005 03:31 PM
There are definitely arguments on either side of this issue, but the main thrust of my post in this forums was that if you are going to make a change this big, the community needs to sign off on the concept first. What we got is here is--this is what we are going to do, you can comment on minor details but we the goal has already been decided.
Gou-Geo wrote:
well, i for one like it. when i'm off doing missions from AH i hate to just arrive intown and get killed by some "buffed" up imp that is there just for the joy of killing us...
besides i wouldn't be the first type that a "buffed" up imp busted our rping events just for the fun of it. althougth what worries me is the effect on the "guild war" status, how will both interact?
i guess like everything in life, it has good things and bad things.
Message Edited by Gou-Geo on 02-03-2005 03:31 PM
Message Edited by jphillips1868 on 02-03-2005 10:36 AM
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
Actually, we spent a lot of time reading threads about TEFs on the various boards when deciding to do this. The removal of TEFs is something that many players have been talking about for quite some time.
The updates are posted now so players can see the designs and give us feedback. The TEF changes are still in development and won't appear on Test Center until after Publish 13.0.
Butmy question is then, is at this stage of the process, are you open to reversing the high level concept decision to remove TEFs or is the purpose of the feedback just to work out how the details will work? If you aren't open to that kind of feedback at this stage, my point stands. But if as I fear, the decision has already been made and set in stone, this is a situation that needs to be improved upon for future changes. Otherwise, you are just going to alienate more and more of your playerbase, but not giving them meaningful input.
Message Edited by jphillips1868 on 02-03-2005 12:01 PM
Message Edited by jphillips1868 on 02-03-2005 02:02 PM
The tef system was a shambles and needed to go... Only people supporting it are lamers using group tef for PVP and often overt peoples' enjoying killing folks who are tefed from healing/trade...
jphillips1868 wrote:
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
Actually, we spent a lot of time reading threads about TEFs on the various boards when deciding to do this. The removal of TEFs is something that many players have been talking about for quite some time.
The updates are posted now so players can see the designs and give us feedback. The TEF changes are still in development and won't appear on Test Center until after Publish 13.0.
AndI am sure you read the many post that feel TEFs need to remain in the game as well, but I guess those weren't given as much weight.
Butmy question is then, is at this stage of the process, are you open to reversing the high level concept decision to remove TEFs or is the purpose of the feedback just to work out how the details will work? If you aren't open to that kind of feedback at this stage, my point stands. But if as I fear, the decision has already been made and set in stone, this is a situation that needs to be improved upon for future changes. Otherwise, you are just going to alienate more and more of your playerbase, but not giving them meaningful input.
Message Edited by jphillips1868 on 02-03-2005 12:01 PM
I hate TEFs and it is good that they are gone now. I want to willingly decide if you overt Imps are able to attack me. Or is it really fun for you to get some easy kills because a play gets TEFed? No, what YOu want is to fight some other PvP enabled players who are ready for a fight and a real challenge, no?
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
Actually, we spent a lot of time reading threads about TEFs on the various boards when deciding to do this. The removal of TEFs is something that many players have been talking about for quite some time.
Yes Tricki! You wrote your post while I wrote mine, same thoughts. And there surely are more but us two who have the same opinion. TEF really has to go. It isn't a 'core'-system after all, I think it was implemented by accident the way we had to live with it for the last 1.5 years.
Tricki wrote:
The tef system was a shambles and needed to go... Only people supporting it are lamers using group tef for PVP and often overt peoples' enjoying killing folks who are tefed from healing/trade...
Decisions are rarely final unless they are already in the game...and even then, things can change. If we get overwhelming negative feedback on an idea, we change it or reconsider it. We do our best to avoid proposing ideas that we know will be hated by a large majority of our players and our Correspondents do an excellent job helping us with that.Very few, if any, changes are ever universally liked.
jphillips1868 wrote:
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
Actually, we spent a lot of time reading threads about TEFs on the various boards when deciding to do this. The removal of TEFs is something that many players have been talking about for quite some time.
The updates are posted now so players can see the designs and give us feedback. The TEF changes are still in development and won't appear on Test Center until after Publish 13.0.
AndI am sure you read the many post that feel TEFs need to remain in the game as well, but I guess those weren't given as much weight.
Butmy question is then, is at this stage of the process, are you open to reversing the high level concept decision to remove TEFs or is the purpose of the feedback just to work out how the details will work? If you aren't open to that kind of feedback at this stage, my point stands. But if as I fear, the decision has already been made and set in stone, this is a situation that needs to be improved upon for future changes. Otherwise, you are just going to alienate more and more of your playerbase, but not giving them meaningful input.
Message Edited by jphillips1868 on 02-03-2005 12:01 PM