Commando Archive
Thread: Special Heavy Weapons, some info from a Weaponsmith.
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Brilyn
Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:21 pm
#1
Well, finally, the Flame Thrower and the Heavy Acid Rifle.
First, the Flame Thrower and the Accurate Flame Thrower.
The Ideal Range on a Flame Thrower is a bit crap, at -25. Even with good stuff going into it, I can really crank it up to 0. But that *is* a 25pt increase.
Speed loss? 0.3 seconds.
Is it worth it? I dunno. Who wants a test model? 
Again, Range Experimented Stock is the key phrase you want to mention when talking to your local Weaponsmith.
And the Heavy Assault Rifle. How ye hate it. 
And y'know what? It's damn ugly. No AP. When I saw the HAM, I almost screamed. It *is* high, but only about 20% more than other weaponry (like the DXR-6b Disrupter Rifle).
And the Accurate Heavy Assault Rifle.
This would be almost a 50 point increase on the Ideal Range Modifier. From +24 to +71. That's freakin' huge, anyway you slice it......
Unfortunately, the HAM cost has to increase to accomdate this. Yes, yes, I know. Don't go there. No, there's nothing I can do about that, I'm afraid. 
Finally, for the heck of it, I made a Lo-HAM HAR. It's faster than the basic model (no stock), but it's accuracy is pretty awful. And it's HAM is still way way WAY too high. But I had some spare time. I'm a Weaponsmith, it's what I do when I'm bored.
Anyone have any comments?
Anyone want to test one for me?
RazerWolf
Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:46 pm
#2
Esentially, experimented accuracy on those weapons means little according to the most probable curves. Since specials range is a max of 16m, and you'll be firing at 0-5m most of the time, experimenting at an ideal of 50m is pointless. The range experimented HAR might make a difference.
If I remember correctly though, the curves for those weapons are weird. They go up toward 16m, then drop off massively through to 40m and then climb again.
Personally, I'd want to get Special HWs with as fast a speed as possible. I've seen 4.6 speed FTs on SS.
If I remember correctly though, the curves for those weapons are weird. They go up toward 16m, then drop off massively through to 40m and then climb again.
Personally, I'd want to get Special HWs with as fast a speed as possible. I've seen 4.6 speed FTs on SS.
Brilyn
Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:52 pm
#3
< Since specials range is a max of 16m, and you'll be firing at 0-5m most of the time, experimenting at an ideal of 50m is pointless. >
I mostly agree.
Bear in mind *I'm* not picking what the so-called Ideal Range is for these weapons.
If the Ideal Range improves, then all points improve, just not as much as at the Ideal Range.
Given the FT is *more* accuracte at 0m than at it's "Ideal Range", then yes, the change I've made to the FT will be minimal.
< If I remember correctly though, the curves for those weapons are weird. They go up toward 16m, then drop off massively through to 40m and then climb again. >
Huh?
What are you basing that off of?
< I've seen 4.6 speed FTs on SS.>
Not impossible.
Probably Krayted, though, to be honest.
I reckon the fastest I could currently make (ie no stock) would be about 4.8 or 4.7spd. Give or take.
StarNick
Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:56 pm
#4
Yeah...most commandos dont use the HAR/FT at ideal range as we have only 1 special...which is about or less as strong as flame single 1 and doesnt have a DoT whatosver (technically 2 specials...but Overcharge shot 2 is better than 1....however is more condition wearing, but both are anyways)
And also, devs have said we get a boost in accuracy while in special range while using specials....dont know how much or how this adds to the scheme of things however....
Also...that accurate HAR...6.0 spd...horrible lol In the case of Special hvy Weapons...speed matters ALOT....as a 3.4 spd FT at master is around 6.5-8 second delay....the HAR is exactly the same, except .3 of a second slower! Imagine that at 6.0 spd on a HAR! *cringes*
In the case of Special hvy Weapons...speed matters ALOT....as a 3.4 spd FT at master is around 6.5-8 second delay....the HAR is exactly the same, except .3 of a second slower! Imagine that at 6.0 spd on a HAR! *cringes*Anyways...FT/HARs with around +13-+17 accuracy at Point Blank are usually the best....so I dont personally see a need to make accurate FTs/HARs (especially as for that FT the point blankstayed exactly the same!)
(especially as for that FT the point blankstayed exactly the same!)For the consumeables...accuracy helps a ton as you know...but not so much for the BBQer and the...Loner HAR...
StarNick
Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:58 pm
#5
< I've seen 4.6 speed FTs on SS.>
Not impossible.
Probably Krayted, though, to be honest.
I reckon the fastest I could currently make (ie no stock) would be about 4.8 or 4.7spd. Give or take.
Also on my server Chilastra...4.5 spd FT's are normal...unsliced....if thats what you're talking about lol...
Edit: and yes...even though the +13 on the FTs you made were point blank...and from there to 50 m (if -25 on the normal FT) it will progressingly get worse due to the drop (not as much if @ 50 it was +0)....but as you said its pretty slight....and for above, many of my FT's are around 4.5 spd and +13s @ 0...and between -25 and +0 for Ideal...non-krayted...
Message Edited by StarNick on 08-25-2004 09:00 PM
Raptor2k1
Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:04 pm
#6
< If I remember correctly though, the curves for those weapons are weird. They go up toward 16m, then drop off massively through to 40m and then climb again. >
Huh?
What are you basing that off of?
I think he's referring to how most of the FT's have postive accuracy at point blank, negative at mid-range, an around 0 at 64m.
It just doesn't make much sense (why is a flamethrower more accurate than a rifle at 64m for crying out loud?!)
Brilyn
Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:12 pm
#7
< 4.5 spd FT's are normal >
Um..... k.
Assuming for the moment that I'm using very high end resources (ie pretty damn near perfect), I'd be quite intrigued to know how they're hitting 4.5 spd, considering that mine are indeed hitting 4.8spd (no stock).
Now, 4.5spd is quite possible, but that would be just about the maximum possible value for a Flamethrower.
Unless *every* weaponsmith on the server has equal access to those precise resources, I would strongly debate the "normal" part of your statement.
It may be easy to get said 4.5spd FT from certain weaponsmiths, but I'm fairly certain that if I transferred my WS over to Chilastra, I would *not* be able to pick up those resources with any ease.
BravenIrish
Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:21 pm
#8
So...what's the speed difference between a 4.8 and a 4.5 FT after a speed slice?
Just wondering.
Rimau
Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:29 pm
#9
On Bria if you look for some of the top WS's you can find 4.7 or less speed on FT's. I have a few that are unsliced that are 4.5 or so from one of the top smiths. I think my best one unsliced is 44X min and 85X max and 4.6 speed.
RazerWolf
Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:29 pm
#10
Alorra's gun shop in Vagabond's Rest sells 426-814 4.6 FTs. They're -52 (!) at 50m, but considering that only the 0-16 range is important, the Speed is crucial. 20k per FT as well.
As for what I was saying about the accuracy curve, the accuracy starts in the positive at 0m, climbs and peaks in the 16-20m range, drops off massively into the negative toward 40m and is awful up to 55-60m, and then suddenly and inexplicably shoots up to positive at max range. This is gleamed from the accuracy mod on targets aimed at (i.e. the little +- whatever by target's name).
As for what I was saying about the accuracy curve, the accuracy starts in the positive at 0m, climbs and peaks in the 16-20m range, drops off massively into the negative toward 40m and is awful up to 55-60m, and then suddenly and inexplicably shoots up to positive at max range. This is gleamed from the accuracy mod on targets aimed at (i.e. the little +- whatever by target's name).
Brilyn
Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:29 pm
#11
< So...what's the speed difference between a 4.8 and a 4.5 FT after a speed slice? >
That depends on the slice.
Assuming they both get the same slice, they will end up more similar, as the 4.8 will lose more speed (ie gain marginally more benefit from the slice).
Some sample numbers. I'm not entirely sure how the system handles Fractions, so I've rounded up in all cases.
15% slice:
4.8 -> 4.08 (4.1, I think)
4.5 -> 3.825 (3.9)
20% slice.
4.8 -> 3.84 (3.9)
4.5 -> 3.6 (3.6)
25% slice
4.8 -> 3.6(3.6)
4.5 -> 3.375 (3.4)
30% slice
4.8 -> 3.36 (3.4)
4.5 -> 3.15 (3.2)
35% slice
4.8 -> 3.12 (3.2)
4.5 -> 2.925 (3.0)
That would be roughly accurate.
Brilyn
Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:36 pm
#12
< Alorra's gun shop in Vagabond's Rest sells 426-814 4.6 FTs. >
Actually, that's freakin' weird.
My 4.8spd ones are 455-841.
Technically, her's should do *more* Damage than mine, as the speed and Damage line are tied.
Unless.......
(back in 2 minutes)
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