Commando Archive

Thread: Final Word on Detonation Droids for Publish 8 Commandos Not Added

garvin
Fri Apr 23, 2004 10:01 am
#1


As many folks know, Detonation Droids Modules are coming out in Publish 8. This will allow Bounty Hunters and Smugglers who buy droids with this Module to blow them up and do damage (damage type still unknown) to a target.


The Dev reason for the creation of this type of Droid Module was to give Smugglers and Bounty Hunters, who they felt were lacking in Combat Capabilities, an additional way they can be involved in Combat.


Since Commandos are considered Demolitionists, I requested that Commandos be added to the list of Professions who could utilize this droid module. My first request was turned down with the reason that our Rocket Launcher was more useful to us then the Droids would be. I was asked to respond to their response.


I informed them that the benefits of adding us to the list was4 fold:


1) We are the Explosive Experts of the game...so it just makes sense we have access to this Module whether they "feel" we need it or not...


2) Rocket Launchers do not appear to be working as they intend and have issues in that they are hard to craft and can be costly (when compared to accuracy and speed)...So the Rocket Laucher do notappear to be a good reason for exclusion. Detonation Droids will be easier to craft and aquire then RLs.


3) Grenades and Rocket Launcers have high HAM Costs and Grenades can cause the user as much damage as their target. Detonation Droids appear to cost the user no HAM and do no damage to the user, only the target.


& 4) By adding Commandos to the list of professions who could use this droid type, the Devs would provide another group that Droid Engineers could sell to.


I had the backing from many of the other combat profession correspondents, including the Bounty Hunter and Smuggler correspondent.


Again, my request has been denied and that appears to be the Devs final word on this matter for now. The Dev response was that we already had enough weapon choices ingame and don't need to be added to the list. It was restated that the reason for the Detionation Modules coming into the game was only to give BH's and Smugglers more combat potential and that adding us to the list would take away from that (detonation droids will make smugglers and BH's more useful in a combat group).


Personally I don't see this issue as a Game Breaking issue for Commandos. It is just something that makes sense to me since, in a basic sort of way, Commandos Blow Stuff Up...It's not really something I see us drastically needing, but more of something that fits with our theme.


I wanted to make sure you all knew the final verdict on this...This doesn't mean that we will never get on the list for Detonation Droids...it just means we won't be on the list when Publish 8 rolls out...I will keep bringing this issue to the Dev's attention.


I don't see this as a lost battle on our part...During the debate with the Devs over this issue I was able to highlight our issues with the Rocket Laucher and our issues with our dis-functional other weapons over and over...If anything, during the debate I was hopefully able to make the Devs see that they need to take a closer look at our profession and it's weapons...that what they think is compensation needs re-adjustment.


This post is not meant to anger anyone or start a flame war between us and the devs. We made our request, they declined and gave their reasons...This battle is over for now, but the war rages on...When all is left in flames, it will be us Commandos still standing...I still have faith that we will eventually reach that bigger picture we seek.


Thank you to everyone for their continued support...



Garvin Lansdowne
Retired Commando Correspondent - Current Blue Glowie

Master Commando / TKM || Architect / Shipwright / Master Droidsmith

ShadowStyrkeGuild.com: A WoW Guild Website

Hellshot
Fri Apr 23, 2004 10:36 am
#2

OK. Hopefully the devs will change their stance on this or improve our consumables. Good work though.



Ancient weapons and hokey religions are no match for a rocket launcher in your backpack.

Lowca- Col Hoopo Gringo 0/0/2/0 Commando, 0/0/0/2 Fencer
Test Center - Ahab Crestingrunner Master Commando and stuff

First player to wear Mandalorian armor
TechnoHic
Fri Apr 23, 2004 11:07 am
#3






garvin wrote:


The Dev response was that we already had enough weapon choices ingame and don't need to be added to the list.



OK, I take it they consider every one of our consumables a weapon choice then. Well If they think that is enough, even if they do make em useable, I am glad I left and probably wont ever be back. I never wanted to have to depend on all consumable weapons but if thats what they invision is for commando then thats fine its just not for me. I just wish theyd come out and say it and save people who do not want that a lot of time with commando.




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Elder Commando
Carnage' - Master Munitions Trader
Nobunoga Oda - Bounty Hunter >
RozhlokLightningskull
Fri Apr 23, 2004 11:15 am
#4

What kind of damage do these droids do? Are they really that useful?




/+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++\
| Razhlok Lightningskull: Master Bounty Hunter ~ Master Rifleman ~ Alliance Pilot -- Wanderhome Galaxy |
| Lynsana Jantal: Teräs Käsi Master ~ Master Swordswoman ~ Privateer -- Bria Galaxy |
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garvin
Fri Apr 23, 2004 11:16 am
#5






TechnoHic wrote:





garvin wrote:


The Dev response was that we already had enough weapon choices ingame and don't need to be added to the list.



OK, I take it they consider every one of our consumables a weapon choice then. Well If they think that is enough, even if they do make em useable, I am glad I left and probably wont ever be back. I never wanted to have to depend on all consumable weapons but if thats what they invision is for commando then thats fine its just not for me. I just wish theyd come out and say it and save people who do not want that a lot of time with commando.






I agree fully...Our Consumable weapons should not be considered additional weapon choices...in reality they should be just considered different types of grenades, except they are more powerful and have greater range (also can only be used while standing still)....That one of the reasons I don't think they should each have their own type of speed and accuracy mods...


One of our biggest issues is getting the devs to see past the idea of comparing shot to shot...The see how much damage we are capable in one shot and see us as the most powerful profession. But of you compare 5 seconds worth of shots between various professions or even 10 seconds of shots between the professions, they'd easily see that professions like TKA and Rifleman out damage us...it's not about initial damage (because most fights with higher level NPCs and Players are not ended in one shot on average)...it's about Damage over time...If we are to be the Heavy hitter in the game, we should be the heavy hitters "over time" as well...


This is where I believe the "new speed formula" and "new damage forumula" of the delayed Combat Balance is suppose to come into play...it's suppose to fix the fact that we are out damaged "over time"...but of course, that another guess since we still don't have any concrete facts to go on yet...





Garvin Lansdowne
Retired Commando Correspondent - Current Blue Glowie

Master Commando / TKM || Architect / Shipwright / Master Droidsmith

ShadowStyrkeGuild.com: A WoW Guild Website

garvin
Fri Apr 23, 2004 11:20 am
#6






RozhlokLightningskull wrote:

What kind of damage do these droids do? Are they really that useful?





That's the big mystery...I've asked repeatedly for the damage type and still haven't been told...not even the AP or damage amount typical (it all depends on the success of the crafting process for the final numbers)...I don't think it's terribly significant, but might be distressing to our profession if it's Blast Damage with a high AP...


I would have tested it myself, but since I'm a Commando on TC, I can use it...




Garvin Lansdowne
Retired Commando Correspondent - Current Blue Glowie

Master Commando / TKM || Architect / Shipwright / Master Droidsmith

ShadowStyrkeGuild.com: A WoW Guild Website

TechnoHic
Fri Apr 23, 2004 11:27 am
#7

Well thinking about it they could just consider it another consumable weapon apon our many other consumables we dont use and not mean we got enough by ways of non-consumable weapons.


Just saw THs 19 answers. Of course all combat classes get the second week but still interesting none-the-less. Just wondering garvin, what question you going to ask?





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Elder Commando
Carnage' - Master Munitions Trader
Nobunoga Oda - Bounty Hunter >
garvin
Fri Apr 23, 2004 11:47 am
#8






TechnoHic wrote:

Well thinking about it they could just consider it another consumable weapon apon our many other consumables we dont use and not mean we got enough by ways of non-consumable weapons.


Just saw THs 19 answers. Of course all combat classes get the second week but still interesting none-the-less. Just wondering garvin, what question you going to ask?






There is a post stickied at the top that is having the community vote one which of our 10 Questions I ask...right now voting is leaning towards a HAR related questions...one based on finding out if it can and will be revamped to no longer be a higher cost weaker clone of the the FT...




Garvin Lansdowne
Retired Commando Correspondent - Current Blue Glowie

Master Commando / TKM || Architect / Shipwright / Master Droidsmith

ShadowStyrkeGuild.com: A WoW Guild Website

VXXXJesterXXXV
Fri Apr 23, 2004 11:50 am
#9

Garvin I am glad you posted this as I was curious to the answer. Hopefully the next battle with the devs goes in your favor. I hope to hear something concrete on the combat rebalance soon, I'm assuming they are not telling the correspondants what the major changes are. Or you are not allowed at this time to spill the beans. Oh well please let us know whenever you can.



Jester Aeweok
Wanderhome
Shooting for
Master Swordsman
Master Pikeman
Master Brawler
garvin
Fri Apr 23, 2004 11:56 am
#10






VXXXJesterXXXV wrote:
Garvin I am glad you posted this as I was curious to the answer. Hopefully the next battle with the devs goes in your favor. I hope to hear something concrete on the combat rebalance soon, I'm assuming they are not telling the correspondants what the major changes are. Or you are not allowed at this time to spill the beans. Oh well please let us know whenever you can.





The only thing on the Combat Balance I've heard for sure is that it is making some good progress...the Devs I've heard from don't believe it will be delayed as long as they first thought...I've also heard from TH (said this in front of the other correspondents as well) that Commandos are at the top of the list when it comes to the Combat Balance...This could mean that the new speed, damage and HAM formulas help put us back in the running as a combat capable profession, or even more then that, we might actually see some specific Commando love...from there I'm not sure...


TH did recently state that, while looking over the various Combat Profession's Top 5 lists, 35% of all issues are covered in the Combat Balance...to me, that is a very interesting statement to make...





Garvin Lansdowne
Retired Commando Correspondent - Current Blue Glowie

Master Commando / TKM || Architect / Shipwright / Master Droidsmith

ShadowStyrkeGuild.com: A WoW Guild Website

Daker-Naritus
Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:59 pm
#11

You know garvin this REALLY pisses me off...


Bounty hunters spend 217 skill points and get:


Bleeding Shot (Bleed)
Confusion Shot (Stun/Dizzy)
Eye Shot (Blind)
Fast Blast
Fire Knockdown (Knockdown)
Lightning Cone 1 and 2
Lightning Single 1 and 2
Spray Shot (Stun/Dizzy/Blind)
Torso Shot (On Fire)
Underhand Shot (Knockdown)

Scatter Pistol

Lightening Rifle

Smugglers spend 126 skill points and get:


Feign Death (This is HUGE)
Last Ditch
Low Blow (Knockdown)
Panic Shot (Delay)



Ok so BHs and Smugglers have the best pvp moves in the game, theyOWN in pvp, and now they need MORE combat power in the form of 10000 damage droid that blow up and cause MORE damage than even our rocket launchers can? What the hell! Those classes have combat power that we can only dream of...




We spend 169 skill points (20% less than BH and 20% more than smuggler), we are 10 TIMES as broken as those classes, and and get nothing more than:

Acid Cone 1 and 2 (Broken Weapon)
Acid Single 1 and 2 (Broken Weapon)
Flame Cone 1 and 2 (Dot)
Flame Single 1 and 2 (Dot)

Grenades (Broken and worthless)

Rocket Launchers (Broken, inaccurate,and too expensive to use)


Not to mention the fact that these new 10000 damage droids just became the new "heavy weapons experts" of the game. Why would anyone need a commando (who will miss 90% of the time and has to be in turret range to attack) when you could send in a droid to kill the turret.



I am freaking APPAULED at how wrong this is. I don't know what kind of poop slinging monkeys are running this damn thing, but they are dumb as rocks and couldn't identify balance if it punched them in the nose. Sheesh!
Daker-Naritus
Fri Apr 23, 2004 3:08 pm
#12

Another issue....


Do you know how freaking cheap an exploding mouse droid is going to be?


It costs us over 2k per shot with our rocket launchers, but they get to do 10k damage for the small amount of resources it takes to make a mouse droid?


Those cheap little mouse droids wouldn't do blast damage would they?



Step aside commandos...we just became obsolete!


garvin
Fri Apr 23, 2004 3:13 pm
#13

Daker...you are absolutely right...that was pretty much my point to them...they feel these new "droids" are a PvE tool for BHs and Smugglers...not PvP...they wanted to make them feel more useful in fighting in a group (like in some of the new content missions)...I tried to tell them basically the same things you did, as well as that Smugglers are about to get a revamp that should improve the combat issues as well, but it fell on deaf ears unfortunately...


Now are best bet is to go with the old trusty "We told you so" after the patch hits...We will need to just collect evidence to show the Devs the error in their logic...the represent our arguement back at them...


Like I said, this battle is over, the war rages on...We won't get added at the time of Publish 8...but it only takes a mini-publish to added us to the list or get these new droids NERF'd to weaker then a lootedc-12...



Garvin Lansdowne
Retired Commando Correspondent - Current Blue Glowie

Master Commando / TKM || Architect / Shipwright / Master Droidsmith

ShadowStyrkeGuild.com: A WoW Guild Website

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