Commando Archive
Thread: Respec System
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StarNick
Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:55 am
#1
Hey folks, I got a chance to try out the respec system last night.
As you all may have heard, its divided into Novice/Standard/Elite/Jedi conversion.
All novice skill points (Novice Marksman, Novice Brawler, Novice Scout) can only be used in attaining a novice box.
All standard skill points (Anything between an elite and a novice box)can be applied to any non-novice box skill, but are not as worth as much as elite skill points.
All elite skill points (Elite novice box to Master) can be placed in pretty much anything, they're worth more than standard points and are the first to be used in re-allocation.
I also noticed something - you seem to automatically get the pre-reqs if you have a profession such as TKA (I logged in and was -14 sp because of it). I only got to do it once, so Im not sure if that took away or not. This may mean we get an extra 14 standard skill points to spend (which helps)...also, it seemed that Master Marksman gave elite skill points too. Lastly, it *seemed* like standard skillpoints were worth half as much as elite skill points.
For the most part...I was able to get a good majority of the template I wanted:
Master Commando/0-3-2-4 Carbineer/0-4-0-4 Pistoleer. I would have to grind about 3.475 million more carbineer xp however. Granted, I had 29 sp in scout, which resulted in standard skills.
So, most likely in prep for respeccing, Ill be taking out that scout portion and replacing it with 28 points in pistoleer. This *should* afford me with enough points to re-allocate my entire template to how I want it to be, with maybe a few sp left over to spend. Don't have any hard numbers, but Id advise if you dabbled in carbineer, pistoleer, or rifleman...give up something thats not important (such as scouting, or other novice profession skills which only give standard points), and grind those few additional points in the profession you would automatically have all the pre-reqs for during respec.
On a side note...Im still seeing some funky stuff with our HW weapons (only got the RL to fire, and all our old disposables still had numbers on them...despite not being disposable), and some things didnt seem to convert right (my 2.7 speed flamer and 950 max one, wasn't as good as a slightly above average flamer)
As you all may have heard, its divided into Novice/Standard/Elite/Jedi conversion.
All novice skill points (Novice Marksman, Novice Brawler, Novice Scout) can only be used in attaining a novice box.
All standard skill points (Anything between an elite and a novice box)can be applied to any non-novice box skill, but are not as worth as much as elite skill points.
All elite skill points (Elite novice box to Master) can be placed in pretty much anything, they're worth more than standard points and are the first to be used in re-allocation.
I also noticed something - you seem to automatically get the pre-reqs if you have a profession such as TKA (I logged in and was -14 sp because of it). I only got to do it once, so Im not sure if that took away or not. This may mean we get an extra 14 standard skill points to spend (which helps)...also, it seemed that Master Marksman gave elite skill points too. Lastly, it *seemed* like standard skillpoints were worth half as much as elite skill points.
For the most part...I was able to get a good majority of the template I wanted:
Master Commando/0-3-2-4 Carbineer/0-4-0-4 Pistoleer. I would have to grind about 3.475 million more carbineer xp however. Granted, I had 29 sp in scout, which resulted in standard skills.
So, most likely in prep for respeccing, Ill be taking out that scout portion and replacing it with 28 points in pistoleer. This *should* afford me with enough points to re-allocate my entire template to how I want it to be, with maybe a few sp left over to spend. Don't have any hard numbers, but Id advise if you dabbled in carbineer, pistoleer, or rifleman...give up something thats not important (such as scouting, or other novice profession skills which only give standard points), and grind those few additional points in the profession you would automatically have all the pre-reqs for during respec.
On a side note...Im still seeing some funky stuff with our HW weapons (only got the RL to fire, and all our old disposables still had numbers on them...despite not being disposable), and some things didnt seem to convert right (my 2.7 speed flamer and 950 max one, wasn't as good as a slightly above average flamer)
invaliduser
Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:39 am
#2
many thanks Starnick, you were are good as your word 
one clarification please...you mention that standard SP "can be applied to any non-novice box skill" - now, I'm following your advice and grinding smuggler to max the SP in elite profes. However this will mean Ive only got 2 novice boxes (MMan and Brawler). (pre curb template will be MC/ TKM/ Smuggler 3000 and maxed pistols xp to get the final box post CURB)
my CURB template (MC/MBH/Smugler4000) required 3 novices boxes...can you reallocate standard SP into novice boxes, or am I stuffed?
ta very much and thanks once again for the testing
one clarification please...you mention that standard SP "can be applied to any non-novice box skill" - now, I'm following your advice and grinding smuggler to max the SP in elite profes. However this will mean Ive only got 2 novice boxes (MMan and Brawler). (pre curb template will be MC/ TKM/ Smuggler 3000 and maxed pistols xp to get the final box post CURB)
my CURB template (MC/MBH/Smugler4000) required 3 novices boxes...can you reallocate standard SP into novice boxes, or am I stuffed?
ta very much and thanks once again for the testing
Message Edited by invaliduser on 04-19-2005 04:39 PM
Thatguyfubu
Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:49 am
#3
hmm looks like it is time to drop medic and get as many SL boxes as I can, that should take all of 30 minutes.
StarNick
Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:02 am
#4
"one clarification please...you mention that standard SP "can be applied to any non-novice box skill" - now, I'm following your advice and grinding smuggler to max the SP in elite profes. However this will mean Ive only got 2 novice boxes (MMan and Brawler). (pre curb template will be MC/ TKM/ Smuggler 3000 and maxed pistols xp to get the final box post CURB)
my CURB template (MC/MBH/Smugler4000) required 3 novices boxes...can you reallocate standard SP into novice boxes, or am I stuffed?"
I don't know honestly, as before respec I had 3 novice boxes so I couldn't test it (and those were the three novices you can respec heh =/). Im thinking you can...but, if someone can test it and clarify in this thread, it would be appreciated.
my CURB template (MC/MBH/Smugler4000) required 3 novices boxes...can you reallocate standard SP into novice boxes, or am I stuffed?"
I don't know honestly, as before respec I had 3 novice boxes so I couldn't test it (and those were the three novices you can respec heh =/). Im thinking you can...but, if someone can test it and clarify in this thread, it would be appreciated.
Thereaperofflames
Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:10 am
#5
Im a master commando Bounty hunter 0/4/4/4, i have 4 skill popints un-used
I want to be in the CU master commando master bh...will i be able to do this?
I want to be in the CU master commando master bh...will i be able to do this?
StarNick
Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:20 am
#6
Well, since you're going to be gaining back Rifle IV, Carbine IV, Pistol IV, and master marksman...and only need 1 tree in BH and of course master, you should have enough to respec and maybe have a few standard points left over. If standard points are worth .5 of an elite point, thats 21 points there, as well what you get from master marksman.
Wolfmann31
Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:22 am
#7
My current template
MCommando/Mrifleman/Nmedic 3SP to boot
After conversion:
MCommando/Mrifle/Carb 1000. 27SP to boot.
What does it mean? Well, I havent grinded in over a year, I'm happy I was done..Now, I'm forced to grind again.
Why I picked up Carbines? And need 2-2-0-3 in it? I'm a RP'er, Stormtrooper..So to be halfway efficient wearing it..I need those.
Rifleman, because thats the Stormtrooper weapons. Commando, as I'm specialised as a Storm Commando.
Without Armor certs, I wouldnt be in this "have to go back to the grind" situation.
If the devs think Grind = fun and keep playing, they are wrong..those Carbineer boxes, are a main part of why I ponder of quitting the game...I hate Grinding.
Knightcrest
Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:55 am
#8
Like I mentioned earlier... is it too much to ask to not be penalized and not have to regrind when you are templeted like other profs don't have to that are triple masters etc? We shouldn't have to regrind if they don't because our prereqs cost more than theirs. One idea I mentioned was to have the profs that required now unused novice masteries, is to weight their skill points for having a hybrid mastery on the old system so as not to penalize them. I will not grind in this new system because someone decided to change everything rather than balance it and now I have to grind after grinding to test and grinding to my initial mastery just to regrind because they are too lazy to make the respec fair to all templates by adding in a little extra coding to 1) check for hybrid prof 2) weight novice prereq skills as elite value... I don't use a jedi anymore because of the boring grind. Is the soloution I presented too far fetched? I think not and is the most fair way I can think of. Why don't they just do a character purge and make us all start over if they can't let a finished toon remain finished? Yes that is an extreme statement, but they are purging some of my skill points that were spent that I had no choice over or would not have ever had the master marksman box as it is.
So basically my 250sp in live now is not 250sp in combat... what is it in then? This is the most assinine thing I have seen yet (aside from the level dmg bonus) in the CU.
They won't give Hybrid veterans a full 250sp that they have spent (and not by choice).... but they will hand new players a couple mil by giving them the BARC speeder to sell. That statement alone says a great deal about the current state of SWG (and not talking about just the CU which I happen to like despite the fact that I will have to regrind or cancel my accounts).
So basically my 250sp in live now is not 250sp in combat... what is it in then? This is the most assinine thing I have seen yet (aside from the level dmg bonus) in the CU.
They won't give Hybrid veterans a full 250sp that they have spent (and not by choice).... but they will hand new players a couple mil by giving them the BARC speeder to sell. That statement alone says a great deal about the current state of SWG (and not talking about just the CU which I happen to like despite the fact that I will have to regrind or cancel my accounts).
Message Edited by Knightcrest on 04-19-2005 12:11 PM
Knightcrest
Tue Apr 19, 2005 2:22 pm
#9
After heading back into work and relooking at this whole thing... I am down to two options if nothing is said by a red name regarding this in the next few days. We have all been patient with the CU coming, but now with only a few days really left, I need to make a decision. My 3 options are:
1) Devs get with the program and don't treat hybrid veterans like banth poodoo and offer up a solution that does not include having to regrind due to chosing the wrong prof by their idea of a full combat template... I remain happy playing the game and hope for some CL balance to come soon(tm)
2) I drop Master Commando (have had it on my main since the last week of Sept '03) and relunctantly yet quickly grind TKM/Swordsman/Fencer to get a triple mastery to not take it up the (insert favorite orifice here) and have to regrind in a slower combat system of which I should be grandfathered in as being a 250sp combat hybrid on live. 3-4 days of grinding to be able to start at a CL80 which my toon should be at now with their "invisible combat level" and respec back to Master Commando/Master Rifleman and spend my extra sp etc.
3) I cancel my preorders, and cancel my subscription and wait for a CSURB (customer service upgrade/revamp/rebalance) specializing in retaining the current playerbase (as well as not penalizing them over a forced change)over trying to appeal to the incoming movie crowd.
Sorry for my rant... I generally like to play devil's advocate on a lot of things to help people see both sides, but this time this is one issue that is not acceptable. This is Star Wars Galaxies, not Star Wars Grindagalaxy. I did my grinding 2 years ago. I achieved my full template long ago, and now many others that did not take part in one of the hybrids that were hands down the weakest and most expensive of the prof's (note: I did not say less fun) overall will get to start off at a higher CL while I would have to have my guild babysit me to get me back up to speed or run around with a LFG tag over my head to get back to where I was one day before the revamp rather than enjoying all the new features that are coming with both the CU and the expansion that I preordered with the rest of my friends... all because I chose to be a Commando in Star Wars rather than the ever so popular stacker templates. I feel I am getting punished for not being a FotM, and having a different prereq set than a very large portion of the playerbase. Like I said in my earlier post, they won't rewards veterans that have been here since the begining by making sure they don't get set behind their peers due to being forced to have a prereq of a mastered novice prof... but they will give new players, a BARC speeder that was shown as content to the current subscribers, yet will not be available to them without going out and buying a new account or handing some new player millions of credits to attain. Am I the only one that feels this strongly against being forced to regrind? Or am I reacting harshly? In either case, I am put into a situation of having to drop my favorite prof and becoming something I don't want just to get a fair shake at respec'ing my toon, or else leave a game that I enjoy for the most part and adds a good way for me to communicate with family and friends across the country with me being stationed away from home. Either solution there sounds like a lose/lose... but at least I won't be having to grind. I woulda stayed with a jedi if I enjoyed that aspect of the game.
*Edit* Heh, a friend of mine just added salt to the wound agreeing with me. He just brought up a very good point. "Because of that respec, you being a Master Commando now, and me being a TKM/Master Smuggler/Master Pistoleer... I will have a completed Commando template before you even do even as long as you have had it, and that is just whacked."
1) Devs get with the program and don't treat hybrid veterans like banth poodoo and offer up a solution that does not include having to regrind due to chosing the wrong prof by their idea of a full combat template... I remain happy playing the game and hope for some CL balance to come soon(tm)
2) I drop Master Commando (have had it on my main since the last week of Sept '03) and relunctantly yet quickly grind TKM/Swordsman/Fencer to get a triple mastery to not take it up the (insert favorite orifice here) and have to regrind in a slower combat system of which I should be grandfathered in as being a 250sp combat hybrid on live. 3-4 days of grinding to be able to start at a CL80 which my toon should be at now with their "invisible combat level" and respec back to Master Commando/Master Rifleman and spend my extra sp etc.
3) I cancel my preorders, and cancel my subscription and wait for a CSURB (customer service upgrade/revamp/rebalance) specializing in retaining the current playerbase (as well as not penalizing them over a forced change)over trying to appeal to the incoming movie crowd.
Sorry for my rant... I generally like to play devil's advocate on a lot of things to help people see both sides, but this time this is one issue that is not acceptable. This is Star Wars Galaxies, not Star Wars Grindagalaxy. I did my grinding 2 years ago. I achieved my full template long ago, and now many others that did not take part in one of the hybrids that were hands down the weakest and most expensive of the prof's (note: I did not say less fun) overall will get to start off at a higher CL while I would have to have my guild babysit me to get me back up to speed or run around with a LFG tag over my head to get back to where I was one day before the revamp rather than enjoying all the new features that are coming with both the CU and the expansion that I preordered with the rest of my friends... all because I chose to be a Commando in Star Wars rather than the ever so popular stacker templates. I feel I am getting punished for not being a FotM, and having a different prereq set than a very large portion of the playerbase. Like I said in my earlier post, they won't rewards veterans that have been here since the begining by making sure they don't get set behind their peers due to being forced to have a prereq of a mastered novice prof... but they will give new players, a BARC speeder that was shown as content to the current subscribers, yet will not be available to them without going out and buying a new account or handing some new player millions of credits to attain. Am I the only one that feels this strongly against being forced to regrind? Or am I reacting harshly? In either case, I am put into a situation of having to drop my favorite prof and becoming something I don't want just to get a fair shake at respec'ing my toon, or else leave a game that I enjoy for the most part and adds a good way for me to communicate with family and friends across the country with me being stationed away from home. Either solution there sounds like a lose/lose... but at least I won't be having to grind. I woulda stayed with a jedi if I enjoyed that aspect of the game.
*Edit* Heh, a friend of mine just added salt to the wound agreeing with me. He just brought up a very good point. "Because of that respec, you being a Master Commando now, and me being a TKM/Master Smuggler/Master Pistoleer... I will have a completed Commando template before you even do even as long as you have had it, and that is just whacked."
Message Edited by Knightcrest on 04-19-2005 05:06 PM
Latenighter
Tue Apr 19, 2005 2:46 pm
#10
I agree with Knightcrest. Regrinding is an unacceptable alternative. Unacceptable after the CU and unacceptable right now to be "ready" for the CU. If I have spent 250 skill points in combat professions now, I should have 250 after without having to drop professions and regrind.
Some wise commando suggested allowing XX "standard" skill points to be used in "elite" boxes on a one for one basis. Limit the number of equal value skill points to match the changed conditions for the hybrid classes. This will be both fair and limit anyone from grinding "standard" skill points to get "elite" boxes.
Someone with a better handle on things can help figure out what XX is. LOL. It seems like 43 skill points to me (3 marksman trees + master marksman box), but maybe I'm not looking at it right. It could be 29 (2 marksman trees + master box) because you will have to spend one markman tree to get pistol/rifle/carbines to get to the elite profs.
It's a better system than forcing a regrind on existing players.
Some wise commando suggested allowing XX "standard" skill points to be used in "elite" boxes on a one for one basis. Limit the number of equal value skill points to match the changed conditions for the hybrid classes. This will be both fair and limit anyone from grinding "standard" skill points to get "elite" boxes.
Someone with a better handle on things can help figure out what XX is. LOL. It seems like 43 skill points to me (3 marksman trees + master marksman box), but maybe I'm not looking at it right. It could be 29 (2 marksman trees + master box) because you will have to spend one markman tree to get pistol/rifle/carbines to get to the elite profs.
It's a better system than forcing a regrind on existing players.
StarNick
Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:48 pm
#11
From the dev thats in charge of the programming side of the respec system, things will be changing and this isn't "set in stone" yet...and will undoutbedly change
Knightcrest
Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:41 pm
#12
Thank you Stern, I hope for my sake that you are right. I just don't have grind left in my anymore... hate to sound like I was whinning, especially with all the good things commando has gotten recently, but just don't have any grind left in me. Just want the CU in, expansion in, and be able to enjoy a fully armed and operational commando.
Wolfmann31
Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:51 pm
#13
Knightcrest wrote:
Thank you Stern, I hope for my sake that you are right. I just don't have grind left in my anymore... hate to sound like I was whinning, especially with all the good things commando has gotten recently, but just don't have any grind left in me. Just want the CU in, expansion in, and be able to enjoy a fully armed and operational commando.
Exactly..I've played this game for 2 years..the grind has left me. Let me enjoy the game now..I've grinded my share.
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