Commando Archive
Thread: Science Fiction vs Fantasy. Please give an opinion.
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HyperDice
Sun Aug 15, 2004 6:02 pm
#1
I got SWG because I love sci-fi. There are plenty of games out there for people who want to rule the battlefield by taking on whole armies with an ax. I think only Jedi should lay waist to the galaxy in melee but that’s just my opinion. I want to know if I’m off base here, so let me know by responding. I remember when star wars first came out and I remember the excitement of the blaster fire and the epic fights. I don’t remember Conan the Barbarian having a major role. When I played with the toys and with my friends we didn’t have TKM’s taking out soldiers or stormtroopers. Maybe that’s why I wanted to be a soldier and become a commando. I thought Blasters replaced swords as the weapon of choice. I wanted to feel like a part of the Star Wars universe. I didn’t know that the main elite solder class would be the weakest in combat. Where is the balance? Why would the Empire and Rebels bother with training commandos when everything else is so much more powerful? I don’t want to cause a rant but what happened to the feel and spirit of Star Wars?
StarNick
Sun Aug 15, 2004 6:18 pm
#2
We're all wondering the same thing...
Melee is prevelant in Star Wars but mostly in the EU and other games...
Lets just say alot needs to be fixed...hehe (Science Fiction feeling needed)
nbd9k
Sun Aug 15, 2004 8:53 pm
#3
/begin my 2 creds
the problem is that certain aspects of melee are inescapable. just imagine, if you will for me, that scene from the naked gun 2.5 when the cop and the bad guy are shooting ath eachother from opposite sides of the same barrel. now imagine that same scene with Han Solo and that platoon of stormtroopers on the death star. eventually, someone is going to want to throw a buttstroke in there. eventually, there is a need for a little fisticuffs. where we got silly is some polearms guy doing more damage, more quickly, than my flame thrower spraying concentrated napalm on someone and missing 3 times. The biggest slipup, in this case, is the whole jedi thing. the DEVs underestimated the willingness of people to sit and do ridiculously repetative acts in order to unlock that one thing that will give them an edge over the guy who talks too much smack. putting jedi in the old way was dangerous. this new patch? its electronic suicide. everyone and their mother can become a jedi as soon as it hits, as long as they are willing to follow a lengthly quest. and the more people get jedi, the easer it becomes for other people, because newcomers will ask for help. the only thing that will save us there is something BIG that will put the jedi back into hiding. but i digress.
All melee should be a last resort. hell, they teach it in the military: shoot till youre out of rounds, buttstroke till youre rifle's broke, and swing those fists till they take your arms off. what is going to save the starwarzy feel of the game? I believe it all lies in the combat rebalance. this is where they make sure a pistol does pistol damage, not rocket damage. and that a grenade does more damage than a fist. a lot of people are worried that when it rolls around, we're all going to end up dealing the same damage, but the combat rebalance doesnt necessarily mean equality among weapons, just in the skills.
What we need to do, is make someone on high see this and truely understand. will it ever happen? i doubt it. there are threads filling up with negative comments about the condition of the game. the senior DEVs have officially blown this off, saying its all negative because the happy people play instead of comming on the forums and complaining. they may not even realise how many people are P1ssed off about this whole thing. and even then, why shoudl they care? as long as they can attract newbies with the promise of Jedi, they will still make money. and a hell of a lot of it too. do the math sometime.
We need to build a following. a big one. not around faceless forum names, but around the correspondants (ea garvin). we tell them what direction we want to go with the game, and they give the DEVs someone to deal with.
so start recruiting.
/end my 2 creds
Harvard ferrier
Master commando, master TK
Bria server.
as you can see, im boycotting JTL until the combat rebalance. shouldnt all commandos?
PS. my boycott is under great duress, as i am a pilot and cant wait to do some flying- SO SHAPE UP, DEVS
hopdog
Sun Aug 15, 2004 10:16 pm
#4
I became a commando for the same reason. I am having a hard time with someone in the middle of a wide open field charging me with a sword and killing me before I can even get a hit. Even when I do get a hit it does hardly any damage and then I find myself on my back and dead (both fully buffed and with armor of course). Han, Leila, Lando, and the rest should have just got a sword instead I guess. I don’t feel like I’m in the movie. I just hope they fix it. No, I don’t think your off base at all in thinking Galaxies lacks the feel of Star Wars. It lacks any semblance of believability. No, we are not asking for realism, just a sliver of believability and to hold to the physics of the story. I love Star Wars and I will hold out until JTL but I will quit before I trade my blaster… (flame thrower) for a melee weapon.
Pure Commando
Andrew
Pure Commando
Andrew
birdinga
Sun Aug 15, 2004 10:44 pm
#5
I think it is a shame that combat in SWG is based so heavily on melee fighting. I never wanted to fight melee when Ibegan playing this game in beta, but as time went along it became impossible for an armorless Wookiee like myself to survive any medium to high level conflict, and I was forced to take up TKM for the extra defenses. After having TKM, Commando seems almost worthless. I would never give Commando up but any melee class is going to out-damage and out-last a pure Master Commando.
Personally if the devs decided to remove all the melee professions from the game tomorrow morning I wouldnt realy care a bit, but when two thirds of the people you see on your server are running around with Vibro Knucklers and Power Hammers you are just about forced to take up at least some melee if you want to survive.
Star Wars isn't about Kung Fu and swords its about blaster pistols and laser rifles and I would love to see this game reflect that as much as possible. Ranged should beat melee anyday. Its like that one scene from Indiana Jones where that huge Arab guy comes at him in the middle of the street,twirling his gaint scimitar and Indy just pulls out his pistol, shoots him, and walks off like nothing happened, that isrealistic. Insteadmost ranged people fighting melee people end updizzy/kd andgetting beaten into little tiny pieces.
Something should change in my opinion.
HyperDice
Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:47 pm
#6
Hay Hopdog, I’ve been there. I don’t think it would be so bad in cluttered or close corridors where you could justify it as a surprise attack. If someone was setting up an ambush and came around a corner behind me and cut off my head, I would have to give them credit. I also have a problem with someone charging with a sword head on and killing commandos that easy. Give even your lowest private an M-16, put them in empty open ground, have a master fencer charge them openly, and see if the fencer gets hurt any. I can defiantly understand your frustration. Especially as we put a considerable amount of points into mastering this class for combat. I hope the powers that be are not blind and some how make up for all this time we are suffering. I’m sorry if I’m starting to rant, I’m just venting a bit. I love Star Wars and hope it gets back to Sci-Fi. At least I feel more justified in being so frustrated. Maybe someone up top was so into Everquest sales they got confused between Sci-Fi and fantasy lol
Frustration aside I do sympathize with the Devs and believe they are trying. I wouldn’t waist my time here if I didn’t think there was potential in this game. From what I have read we are not alone. But there is a fundamental problem and I hope the Sci-Fi side isn’t dumped for convenience.
Frustration aside I do sympathize with the Devs and believe they are trying. I wouldn’t waist my time here if I didn’t think there was potential in this game. From what I have read we are not alone. But there is a fundamental problem and I hope the Sci-Fi side isn’t dumped for convenience.
UttiniDaKilrJawa
Tue Aug 17, 2004 2:44 pm
#7
Technically Star Wars was never true Science Fiction.
Science Fiction tends to be a literary genre that tells a story about us as a people by utilizing the various principles and theories of science.
Star Wars for the most part has always been considered Science Fantasy due to the inclusion of the all magical/mystical/power known as the Force.
On a side note I would like to say that yes, it sure does seem that SWG is beginning more and more to feel like a D&D clone with blasters.
I'm bored.
Science Fiction tends to be a literary genre that tells a story about us as a people by utilizing the various principles and theories of science.
Star Wars for the most part has always been considered Science Fantasy due to the inclusion of the all magical/mystical/power known as the Force.
On a side note I would like to say that yes, it sure does seem that SWG is beginning more and more to feel like a D&D clone with blasters.
I'm bored.
OceasArt
Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:42 pm
#8
I'm going to agree with this whole thread. Who here hasn't thought at least 10 times where you think, "what's with all the swords and crap"? I recently started reading expanded universe books, which I have never done before.SWG can be credited with that because it renewed my overall interest in the whole Star Wars universe. (I had no idea there was SO much additional content out there). There are little gems of book content where melee weapons are used, but I don't think they should be central to the game as they are now.Melee should be a single fringe specialty class, not a bunch of them. From a marketing standpoint it's easy to see that SOE has this element in the game to attract people away from the D&D style games out there. From my point of view as a Sci-Fi / Star Wars fan, it's pretty lame.
Anyway... The ONLY reason I'm playing an MMORPG game today, is because of the "sci-fi" factor of it. I have ZERO desire to run around in some Lord of the Rings knock off, like 99% of the MMORPG games. If it wasn't for the sci-fi technology of thegame, I wouldn't be playing it.As you will see from my signature, this account (I have 2 on Intrepid) is all melee. I did that to be competetive, not because I really wanted to. To bring myself back around to the sci-fi aspect, I have a second account which is going MC, which I use much more often.
The point is, I suppose, that it seems rediculous to be flying around in space ships, traveling throughout the galaxy, using robots, etc while more than half the players in the game are using swords and crap like that instread of guns. What made the Jedi stand out in my mind as a child was that they chose to use the light sabre as their primary weapon, even though they are good at using any weapon. It gave them a more mysterious and contrasted feel when compared to all the other technology (guns) in the movies. I don't mind having *some* melee in the game. There is always room for someone to be a Master at oldschool battle such as martial arts in our real world. They can add some interesting depth to the game/story without being such a HUGE part as they are today.
I don't know what the answer is. I suppose I will always just continue shake my head and lose the immersion factor of the game whenever I see a ranged player fighting a melee player.
As much as I enjoy this game, the first time a GOOD space/sci-fi based MMORPG game comes along, I will be outta here. I'm no trekky, but I wouldn't mind seeing that franchise develop a real RPG game. It has the depth for it. Too bad there is nothing promising on the horizon (that I know of).
OceasArt
Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:50 pm
#9
Let's also not forget what really makes the lightsaber (melee) aspect of star wats feasable from an immersion and believability standpoint. It's the fact that the design of the weapon, and use of the force allows jedi to block ranged weapons. Had there been other melee weapons used in the movies, you would have seen them probably in a close quarters battle.
I'm not one of those purists that things SWG should be a "simulator". I know many things are added/sacrificed in order to make the SWG world fun to interact in. The current melee content is too much.
Nuke67
Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:38 pm
#10
HyperDice wrote:
I got SWG because I love sci-fi. There are plenty of games out there for people who want to rule the battlefield by taking on whole armies with an ax. I think only Jedi should lay waist to the galaxy in melee but that’s just my opinion. I want to know if I’m off base here, so let me know by responding. I remember when star wars first came out and I remember the excitement of the blaster fire and the epic fights. I don’t remember Conan the Barbarian having a major role. When I played with the toys and with my friends we didn’t have TKM’s taking out soldiers or stormtroopers. Maybe that’s why I wanted to be a soldier and become a commando. I thought Blasters replaced swords as the weapon of choice. I wanted to feel like a part of the Star Wars universe. I didn’t know that the main elite solder class would be the weakest in combat. Where is the balance? Why would the Empire and Rebels bother with training commandos when everything else is so much more powerful? I don’t want to cause a rant but what happened to the feel and spirit of Star Wars?
I agree with what your saying and have said it myself, one reason I chose not to play Everquest etc was because I wanted a online game that didn't have swords and sorcery, I wanted Star Wars with blasters etc like I played as a kid, to my suprise I got Everquest with a Star Wars skin, I have no doubt if another company produced this game it would have been much different, basically I think SOE took the easy way out and just copied Everquest and threw in some Star Wars icons to give it credibility, I believe Melee rules this game because melee rules in fantasy games, guys with swords etc are so way out of place in this game it isn't even funny, nobody would even think that a guy with a sword would stand up to troops with futuristic blasters, hell they wouldnt even stand up to guys with M-16's, swords and other medieval weapons would be good as decoration weapons, like the cadets at West Point wear, but they wouldn't go charging a squad of troops armed with automatic weapons with them. let alone come out victorious.
I chose Commando because I didn't want to run around carrying a sword in a Star Wars game, I wanted a profession that would be very much in the Star Wars tradition, we suck in PVP no doubt, and stand back and watch as guys with billy clubs and swords duke it out in the middle of cities, because us ranged (except rifleman) would get owned fast by these guys, normally our profession would be the elite class of combat and we would be kicking @ss and taking names in PVP, but alas we lose to a guy with a warhammer, I can almost hear Han Solo cry because he didn't need a good blaster at his side, he needed a sword with a good mind dot, if he had one of those who needed Luke, he could have taken the entire Death Star himself, with his melee defense stacking nostormtrooper could have hit him with a carbine, and he would have killed them all with his samauri sword.
I know this is a game and cant compare to real life situations, but please, even in a game there is some realistic elements, a guy kicking the @ss of Commandos with a sword is just nuts,they might as well as one guy said in the GCW forum put it, "Take our guns and give us crossbows" and he is right, might as well as good as our flamethrowers and blasters do, we take our guns to aknife fight, and LOSE...how screwed up is that?
HyperDice
Thu Aug 19, 2004 12:39 am
#11
I understand what you are saying and I know the “force” and “Jedi” are fantasy but I don’t remember two thirds of the galaxy running around with swords killing people armed with blasters like they were unarmed. I remember the flavor being a little more tech based. I love the cool animation of pulling out my rocket launcher but it is useless. I don’t feel like a heavy weapon specialist. Star Wars is also supposed to be about blasters and futuristic fights, not wannabe Jedi running around slaughtering stormtroopers and heavily armed opponents with vibroknucklers and melee weapons.
UttiniDaKilrJawa
Thu Aug 19, 2004 6:44 pm
#12
I for one hate to see everyone with swords outdamaging people with heavy weapons.
I hate it so much in fact that I no longer exist in SWG.
This was a cool concept for a game, but face it..the devs screwed the pooch so hard its got blood shooting out its eyes.
The End.
Ex-Citizen of SWG..may it rest in pieces.
I hate it so much in fact that I no longer exist in SWG.
This was a cool concept for a game, but face it..the devs screwed the pooch so hard its got blood shooting out its eyes.
The End.
Ex-Citizen of SWG..may it rest in pieces.
Knightcrest
Thu Aug 19, 2004 8:05 pm
#13
UttiniDaKilrJawa wrote:
I for one hate to see everyone with swords outdamaging people with heavy weapons.
I hate it so much in fact that I no longer exist in SWG.
This was a cool concept for a game, but face it..the devs screwed the pooch so hard its got blood shooting out its eyes.
The End.
Ex-Citizen of SWG..may it rest in pieces.
Getting closer to giving up.... been playing since release day. Still holding on to hope that there is actual content and a feeling of being in a star wars atmosphere rather than some melee duelists party.
One, Two.... Fencers gonna come for you...
Three, Four... Commandoes gonna hit the floor...
Five, Six... Whoah! I'm getting beat by sticks...
Seven, Eight... My 'nade I just ate...
Nine, Ten... Damn, that's the cloner I'm in!
Oh well started off being funny to some Nightmare on Elm Street tune.... 
Lost the tune when I started getting irritated. Oh well, off to play some of this Star Wars Galaxies: Blasters Subsided/Melee United Take it easy all
*edit* In no way was this a flame against Fencers... I have a Fencer/Dancer that is more effective in PvP than my commando/rifleman so can see the problem with a sword bearer that can shake his arse being more powerful than a <insert commando definition here>. Just needs to be more of a ranged presence in a galactic civil war in a technology based era...
Message Edited by Knightcrest on 08-19-2004 08:12 PM
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