Commando Archive
Thread: Well it has been 4 months..
"If they can be fooled, they can be killed."
aeuralis wrote:
Since TH posted this
"I"m excited to say the Keldarin has lead a strike team for the combat balance and come up with some very exciting stuff. I'm working on putting it all into a single article and make it next week's Friday Feature "
And i must say that I now understand TH's defination of "SOON". To him, what has been 4 months for us, has been less then 10 days.
So in TH's world, the CU/R/B is only about a month a way, ie SOON.
I honestly think that he got shot down by the higher ups who wanted the Dev team to manipulate....err, channel our attention towards JTL. Just being fair to TH who has to follow orders and can't relay stuff to us without getting permission...But you never know.
aeuralis wrote:
Since TH posted this
"I"m excited to say the Keldarin has lead a strike team for the combat balance and come up with some very exciting stuff. I'm working on putting it all into a single article and make it next week's Friday Feature "
And i must say that I now understand TH's defination of "SOON". To him, what has been 4 months for us, has been less then 10 days.
So in TH's world, the CU/R/B is only about a month a way, ie SOON.
Last time this came up (and the time before that I think) I made reference to the fact that the friday feature TH spoke of got scraped...the feature he had put together IS NOT coming...TH didn't make that decission...it was made for him....
I've also been fairly obvious (at least I thought I was) in saying that we won't likely see a CU related Friday Feature until January...I can't really say specifically why, but think about it...if you were going to do a Featured Article each week on a set date, would you write them the day before or would you possibly prepare them way in advance when time permits...And if that was the case, could it be possible that there might be a many Friday Features already set to go that need to get posted before the person incharge of posting them can be allowed to move onto a different topic...
TH also doesn't decide what he can and can't post each Friday...He doesn't even decide the topics every week as far as I know. And I don't believe he wrote ever single FF that is posted (that or he wrote them based off of info passed his way)...
January...January...January...hint hint...Friday Featuresjustmight change in January....
And as for the state of the CU...as I said previously...We'd be on the Sandbox testing RIGHT NOW if it wasn't for the INCREDIBLE job all the Sandbox testers are doing at picking apart the CU info and making suggestions...so many good ideas came in that the Programmers have ended up doing tons of more work to fit those ideas in as well as make suggested changes before testing begins...It's OUR fault that testing is being delayed at this point...If you want to blame someone for the current CU delay, blame all the Correspondents and their Sandbox testers for doing too thourough a job....
Message Edited by garvin on 12-14-2004 10:02 AM
Kalano wrote:
So, what your saying Garvin is that.......Its all Skeptics fault for holding back the CURB. Lets beat him up.
Actually YES...it's all Skeptics fault...blame him...
(laughs in an evil tone as the secret comes out why he really brought Skeptic in as a Sandbox tester...the fallguy)...
YES...it's all Skeptics doing...get him boys...
j/k
Actually...We are all equally to blame and obviously it's not a bad thing...some of the proposed changes brought up by the various sandbox testers have included new weapons, incorporating a bit of non-combat things into the CU that would benefit combat professions, re-examining certain roles and tweaking them slightly, special and weapon cert placement, etc...I can already tell you that some professions recently received new weapon certs that they wouldn't have gotten if not for the recent Sandbox delay.
I'll restate that I don't think the big issue is when the CU will go live...it's obvious, especially by this post, that the the bigger issue is lack of communication...Something that I bring up just about every day over in the Correspondent forum and often in the CU forums...
I read an interesting quote today in Star Wars book I'm reading (1000 points goes to the person who can name the book):
Kip: But there is so much more to learn.
Jedi Master Luke: Yes and patience is one of those things.
The ability to do a thing is not all there is.
You must know the thing.
You must understand how it fits with everything else you know.
You must possess it for it to be truely yours.
Possessing something doesn't just mean that you have it in your hands...it's also means "grasping" it in your mind...I think that's the idea the Devs are working off here with their communication plan...They want you all to "understand how it fits with everything else". They want to make sure that the info comes out in a way that you see how it "fits" with everything else...that's why the docs can't really be posted publically seperate of each other...for the most part, you have to have them altogether to understand how it all "fits together"...and having an environment where you can ask questions, get answers and read the responses of those who are already familiar with the docs helps big time too.
garvin wrote:
I read an interesting quote today in Star Wars book I'm reading (1000 points goes to the person who can name the book):
Kip: But there is so much more to learn.
Jedi Master Luke: Yes and patience is one of those things.
The ability to do a thing is not all there is.
You must know the thing.
You must understand how it fits with everything else you know.
You must possess it for it to be truely yours.
I know...but recently I came to the realization that the devs are actually getting a lot of their ideas from the various books and other SWG lore...So I've decided to read a few books here and there and note some of the things we might be able to use...the current series I'm ready takes place way after Return of the Jedi, but it references some things that were around the time of the time of SWG as well as various ancient species like the Masassi. I figure if we are going to make request proposals for things we want, backing them up with Star Wars lore might help.
JohboBocal wrote:
garvin wrote:
I read an interesting quote today in Star Wars book I'm reading (1000 points goes to the person who can name the book):
Kip: But there is so much more to learn.
Jedi Master Luke: Yes and patience is one of those things.
The ability to do a thing is not all there is.
You must know the thing.
You must understand how it fits with everything else you know.
You must possess it for it to be truely yours.
Your a nerd, lol.
But since nothing is infinite but space and human stupidity( I am not sure about the first), mine is wearing thin. The fact that they continue to tell us to wait with no clue about anything is begining to worry/anger me.
TH's posts only help to fuel my growing disgust with the way they do business. After a year, they have not really made any progress. This seems like a classic case of design creep.
I know you saw doc's and i know that you say they are working hard but in reality you are only seeing a dream untill you have played it in the "Sandbox".
If they changes are as good as you say, why would they not give a general outline of what changes they are making?
AND this is not a general outline!!
The Combat Upgrade is our overall effort to improve our player combat experience, including:
Combat Balance - tuning all our numbers and the combat professions.
Core Combat Changes - HAM improvements, Incapacitation & Death changes, Armor and more.
Combat Additions - more special moves, new counter moves, new armors, new weapons and new crafting options."
This is as general statement as "WE ARE CHANGING EVERY THING"
IF they are a close as you say Garvin, Why don't they make a statement to that effect?
What is stoping them from posting something to the effect that they are close to starting the "Sandbox:" and the delay is because they are incorperating suggestions of the testers?
I fail to see any reason for their lack of communication with us unless they are trying to hide things i.e. their inabillity to fix/balance combat!
Nothing they have done or said, gives me any confidence in them or thier current plan.
Message Edited by aeuralis on 12-14-2004 03:37 PM
aeuralis wrote:
Patient is something that I have been.
We'veALL been.
But since nothing is infinite but space and human stupidity( I am not sure about the first), mine is wearing thin. (Dude, re-read this last sentence, lol). The fact that they continue to tell us to wait with no clue about anything is begining to worry/anger me.
I know you saw doc's and i know that you say they are working hard but in reality you are only seeing a dream untill you have played it in the "Sandbox".
OK, that's one way to put it, lol.
If they changes are as good as you say, why would they not give a general outline of what changes they are making?
Notsure if you've been playing since Beta 1 or thereabouts, but the reason is quite obvious. For one reason or another (good or bad) the Devs have learned not to give out such information before its time to do so (at times once the go live). Why you ask? Well because, for one reason, the outcry is much less this way. Another reason is because if you do so, everyone will hold you accountable to that exact statement with no room for interpretation, even if making a change to your original statement makes the game better. If they said today, look commandos (as an example) you are getting the carbine sledgehammer. But when it came down to it, it was decided to give the commandos a weapon that was 100% exactly the same, but was now called the poopoo super gun; the community would cry and go back about the namesiting from some obscureStar Wars literature that the poopoo super gun was supposed to be a Mon Cal underwater gun, and not for commandos (or something like that).
AND this is not a general outline!!
The Combat Upgrade is our overall effort to improve our player combat experience, including:
Combat Balance - tuning all our numbers and the combat professions. Yup, they've said this.
Core Combat Changes - HAM improvements, Incapacitation & Death changes, Armor and more.Yup, they've said this.
Combat Additions - more special moves, new counter moves, new armors, new weapons and new crafting options." Yup, they've said this.
This is as general statement as "WE ARE CHANGING EVERY THING" Yup, well not everything, but quite a significant change.
IF they are a close as you say Garvin, Why don't they make a statement to that effect?Read paragraph above. Same question, same answer. But they HAVE made a statement.
What is stoping them from posting something to the effect that they are close to starting the "Sandbox:" and the delay is because they are incorperating suggestions of the testers? Same question, same answer.
I fail to see any reason for their lack of communication with us unless they are trying to hide things i.e. their inabillity to fix/balance combat! Nah, ame question, same answer.
Nothing they have done or said, gives me any confidence in them or thier current plan.
Then, with all due respect, why are you still here. (This question is in no way intended to be sarcastic nor mean spirited. I just don't understand someone that has NO confidence in them or their current plan still sticking around). Please explain.
Edited for spelling
Message Edited by aeuralis on 12-14-2004 03:37 PM
Message Edited by JohboBocal on 12-14-2004 02:28 PM
aeuralis wrote:
If they changes are as good as you say, why would they not give a general outline of what changes they are making?
Easiest question yet...Look at what's happenedeverytime they made anytype of "outline" post in the past that didn't contain all of their plans (Droid Commander, Creature Handler Revamp, Crafting Change, Macro Revamp)...everytime they don't post something"complete" people picked itappart, made wild specualtions,ranted, flamed and in the end, soured the whole project before they even know ANYreal details...They didn't even give the Devs a chance to come back with new ideas...That's EXACTLY what they fear will happen with the CU infomation and it's your reaction, anger, mistrust, accusations, etc that is proving them right...I keep telling them to take a look at how good things are in the Commando community as an example that things have changed and it's ok to give out more infomation (that they can trust us to absorb it with open minds) but then angry posts like this pop up....
The Docs for the most part MUST be viewed together...An outline won't help you...the best they woud be able to do is:
- Combat Upgrade
- Combat
- HAM
- Armor
- Weapons
- Specials
- Other Issues (Buffs, Healing, etc)
- Combat Professions Specifics
- Non-Combat Professions Specifics that connect to Combat
- Other stuff I'm probably forgetting to mention...
- The "If we have time" stuff / 2nd level priority items/issues
If I were to add any details to any of those items you and others would rant "That won't work" or you'd say "they get that, they'll be unstopable" or you'd say "That's a huge NERF"...etc...all of those statements are proven wrong when you find the answers in the other docs...I couldn't put enough answers in the outline before they'd become as big as each doc...It's silly to think you'd be satisfied with just an outline...and an outline any more full then what I've put above would cause panic and more questions then we could deal with...The answers only found in the CU Docs.
IF they are a close as you say Garvin, Why don't they make a statement to that effect?
They have...TH has made posts when he could (one just a few weeks ago even)...and as I said in another thread, TH recently made a post in the CU forum that confirmed EVERYTHING I've been suspecting about the delay...that they planned on starting the Sandbox testing mid Decemeber and that it's us Sandbox testers that are now causing the delay...If I was lying why wouldn't and of our Sandbox testers call me on that...Skeptic666 especially...I told him that I would only pick him as a Sandbox tester IF he promised to be completely honest in his feelings and didn't worry about disagreeing with me or any other tester...To that matter, why wouldn't any other Sandbox tester call me out if I was lying...I have been more open and honest with all of you then I probably should have been and its posts like yours that proves to me the damage that my being "more open" is causing...If I kept my mouth completely shut publically regarding the CU (like some Correspendents have choosen to do) you would have less to complain about...Guess you've taught me a good lesson.
What is stoping them from posting something to the effect that they are close to starting the "Sandbox:" and the delay is because they are incorperating suggestions of the testers?
TH made that exact post in the CU forum...And asthe COMMANDOCORRESPONDENT I took itupon myself to rely the info back to all Commandos...sounds kind of like myjob...
I fail to see any reason for their lack of communication with us unless they are trying to hide things i.e. their inabillity to fix/balance combat!
Ok...find me ONE Sandbox tester that willgo along with that Idea...I grant all of our Commando Sandbox testers permission (I'll take full blame) to admit ifthe delay has anything to do with"an inability to fix/balance combat" if that is the case...oryou can verify that it is indeed us Sandbox testers causing the current delay as TH told us.
Nothing they have done or said, gives me any confidence in them or thier current plan.
Glad to know you feel that the role of a Correspondent isn't needed or valued on these forums...Part of my role is to bring you what information I can and I have, but constantly you strike back with doubts and accusations...TH warned us that if we give you all a little, you'll become angry, agressive and doubtful casting much speculation and negativity...He suggested we let anything CU related be brought up by the Devs we that we Correspondents just stick to our own current issues in the live game...I figured my community could handle what little information I was able to bring them...but from you all I get is doubt and mistrust...nice way to repay my faith...
If you want the best example of WHY the docs can't be posted publically, you should see some of the PM's I've been getting lately...apparently someone feels they've seen doc info that was leaked and from what I've gathered, they may have seen some of the info, but it's not complete...already this person is paniced and disappointed with the CU when truthfully, their understanding is incomplete and full of holes...they keep claiming "this won't work" when they lack the programmer explainations one exactly how it WILL work...They make claims that this plus that will create an uber template, but no Sandbox testing has been done to back up that type of statement...already this person has made judgement calls regaring the CU just because of some info that may or may not have been factual...They have more then proven to me that the release of the docs in the wrong environment is extremely harmful...I know for a fact that this persons impressions are wrong and could prove it IF they had access to ALL the info (including what's posted outside the Docs)...but I can't without everyone gaining access...and if everyone had access on the CU forum, chaos would erupt and discussions would be harder to follow...and if people just had view privilages, it would just cause chaos in outside CU forums that the Devs/Programmers would feel obliged to responded to, which in turn would take focus away form the CU forums and more specifically the Sandbox testers....
Instead of doubting everything I say, why not take a look around at some of the other communities and be happy with what information I do bring you when I can...What reason would I have to make anything up? Sure, the devs could be leading us all on, but it would have to be an EXTREMELY elaborate ploy since they have so many people involved (many programmers and devs that I've met personally), as well as graphic images, huge documents, long programmer directed and responded threads, responses even very late in the evening, on weekends and holidays, NUMBERS, calculations, etc...they've provided so much information to us that we can all easily picture the whole thing in our heads...
A ways back (many months ago) TH suggested that we might see the Sandbox go online mid December...then he said more recently that Beta would likely happen after the holidays...At that same time he stated that the Docs would become available to people as they enter the Beta...All of that matches up (2 weeks from mid-December is after the holidays)...and as I've had to repeat MANY times, he recently revealed to us that the Sandbox was delayed BECAUSE of us Sandbox testers...
Be patient or don't be patient...it's a game...and for that matter, it's a GREAT game even in it's current state...if you can't appreciate the game now and are betting everything on the CU, then I'm sure you'll find something else to be just as unhappy about post-CU, so why cause yourself that much stress...move on...
I'm still playing because I like SWG, not because of what I've seen coming in the CU...but what I've seen coming has me very excited and means I'll play my Commando Character much more then just using him for tests...
The series where Admiral Daala comes back and Kyp (note spelling
) gets discovered on Kessel? I think it's this one, kyp's first reaction to the force.OR
Since its way after RotJ maybe the NJO series?
Something in between?
NERD here lol
