Commando Archive

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ShugFlurry wrote:
Hmmm.... Ok... lemme try guess...

The series where Admiral Daala comes back and Kyp (note spelling ) gets discovered on Kessel? I think it's this one, kyp's first reaction to the force.

OR

Since its way after RotJ maybe the NJO series?

Something in between?

NERD here lol

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garvin wrote:

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aeuralis wrote:

If they changes are as good as you say, why would they not give a general outline of what changes they are making?

Easiest question yet...Look at what's happenedeverytime they made anytype of "outline" post in the past that didn't contain all of their plans (Droid Commander, Creature Handler Revamp, Crafting Change, Macro Revamp)...everytime they don't post something"complete" people picked itappart, made wild specualtions,ranted, flamed and in the end, soured the whole project before they even know ANYreal details...They didn't even give the Devs a chance to come back with new ideas...That's EXACTLY what they fear will happen with the CU infomation and it's your reaction, anger, mistrust, accusations, etc that is proving them right...I keep telling them to take a look at how good things are in the Commando community as an example that things have changed and it's ok to give out more infomation (that they can trust us to absorb it with open minds) but then angry posts like this pop up....

The Docs for the most part MUST be viewed together...An outline won't help you...the best they woud be able to do is:

• Combat Upgrade




• Combat


• HAM


• Armor


• Weapons


• Specials


• Other Issues (Buffs, Healing, etc)


• Combat Professions Specifics


• Non-Combat Professions Specifics that connect to Combat


• Other stuff I'm probably forgetting to mention...


• The "If we have time" stuff / 2nd level priority items/issues

If I were to add any details to any of those items you and others would rant "That won't work" or you'd say "they get that, they'll be unstopable" or you'd say "That's a huge NERF"...etc...all of those statements are proven wrong when you find the answers in the other docs...I couldn't put enough answers in the outline before they'd become as big as each doc...It's silly to think you'd be satisfied with just an outline...and an outline any more full then what I've put above would cause panic and more questions then we could deal with...The answers only found in the CU Docs.


IF they are a close as you say Garvin, Why don't they make a statement to that effect?

They have...TH has made posts when he could (one just a few weeks ago even)...and as I said in another thread, TH recently made a post in the CU forum that confirmed EVERYTHING I've been suspecting about the delay...that they planned on starting the Sandbox testing mid Decemeber and that it's us Sandbox testers that are now causing the delay...If I was lying why wouldn't and of our Sandbox testers call me on that...Skeptic666 especially...I told him that I would only pick him as a Sandbox tester IF he promised to be completely honest in his feelings and didn't worry about disagreeing with me or any other tester...To that matter, why wouldn't any other Sandbox tester call me out if I was lying...I have been more open and honest with all of you then I probably should have been and its posts like yours that proves to me the damage that my being "more open" is causing...If I kept my mouth completely shut publically regarding the CU (like some Correspendents have choosen to do) you would have less to complain about...Guess you've taught me a good lesson.

What is stoping them from posting something to the effect that they are close to starting the "Sandbox:" and the delay is because they are incorperating suggestions of the testers?

TH made that exact post in the CU forum...And asthe COMMANDOCORRESPONDENT I took itupon myself to rely the info back to all Commandos...sounds kind of like myjob...

I fail to see any reason for their lack of communication with us unless they are trying to hide things i.e. their inabillity to fix/balance combat!

Ok...find me ONE Sandbox tester that willgo along with that Idea...I grant all of our Commando Sandbox testers permission (I'll take full blame) to admit ifthe delay has anything to do with"an inability to fix/balance combat" if that is the case...oryou can verify that it is indeed us Sandbox testers causing the current delay as TH told us.

Nothing they have done or said, gives me any confidence in them or thier current plan.

Glad to know you feel that the role of a Correspondent isn't needed or valued on these forums...Part of my role is to bring you what information I can and I have, but constantly you strike back with doubts and accusations...TH warned us that if we give you all a little, you'll become angry, agressive and doubtful casting much speculation and negativity...He suggested we let anything CU related be brought up by the Devs we that we Correspondents just stick to our own current issues in the live game...I figured my community could handle what little information I was able to bring them...but from you all I get is doubt and mistrust...nice way to repay my faith...

If you want the best example of WHY the docs can't be posted publically, you should see some of the PM's I've been getting lately...apparently someone feels they've seen doc info that was leaked and from what I've gathered, they may have seen some of the info, but it's not complete...already this person is paniced and disappointed with the CU when truthfully, their understanding is incomplete and full of holes...they keep claiming "this won't work" when they lack the programmer explainations one exactly how it WILL work...They make claims that this plus that will create an uber template, but no Sandbox testing has been done to back up that type of statement...already this person has made judgement calls regaring the CU just because of some info that may or may not have been factual...They have more then proven to me that the release of the docs in the wrong environment is extremely harmful...I know for a fact that this persons impressions are wrong and could prove it IF they had access to ALL the info (including what's posted outside the Docs)...but I can't without everyone gaining access...and if everyone had access on the CU forum, chaos would erupt and discussions would be harder to follow...and if people just had view privilages, it would just cause chaos in outside CU forums that the Devs/Programmers would feel obliged to responded to, which in turn would take focus away form the CU forums and more specifically the Sandbox testers....

Instead of doubting everything I say, why not take a look around at some of the other communities and be happy with what information I do bring you when I can...What reason would I have to make anything up? Sure, the devs could be leading us all on, but it would have to be an EXTREMELY elaborate ploy since they have so many people involved (many programmers and devs that I've met personally), as well as graphic images, huge documents, long programmer directed and responded threads, responses even very late in the evening, on weekends and holidays, NUMBERS, calculations, etc...they've provided so much information to us that we can all easily picture the whole thing in our heads...

A ways back (many months ago) TH suggested that we might see the Sandbox go online mid December...then he said more recently that Beta would likely happen after the holidays...At that same time he stated that the Docs would become available to people as they enter the Beta...All of that matches up (2 weeks from mid-December is after the holidays)...and as I've had to repeat MANY times, he recently revealed to us that the Sandbox was delayed BECAUSE of us Sandbox testers...

Be patient or don't be patient...it's a game...and for that matter, it's a GREAT game even in it's current state...if you can't appreciate the game now and are betting everything on the CU, then I'm sure you'll find something else to be just as unhappy about post-CU, so why cause yourself that much stress...move on...

I'm still playing because I like SWG, not because of what I've seen coming in the CU...but what I've seen coming has me very excited and means I'll play my Commando Character much more then just using him for tests...

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you know that that's got to be 1500+ words... I agree with what you've said, and I'm glad you're our correspondent, but wow you can type...

I wouln't want them to relsase anything incompleate, but I do want something soon. I think that they're taking the right corse of action for their own interests (not getting flamed for one heh) but I think that their interests arn't what they should be acting in... if you know what I mean. we pay for the game, we should get something...

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Novock wrote:

The problem is Garvin that we didn't go to teh devs and say hey why don't you post the reblance/upgrade/revamp documents. Its TH and quite frankly even you who said they would be posted. Even in the current "state of the game" post they again say they are going to post the documents. Its either one way or its the other. Either they are to complicated to post without an uprising or there is a way fro information to be posted. You can't have it both ways and maybe thats where all the trouble is. I hate to say it this way but i find it absolutley hard not to believe. They keep promising the docs to make people stay. then when they don't produce the docs they say they can't because people might give negative feedback, then they promise again the docs will be publically published then they say we can't because it will cause to much confusion. They need to pick one side or the other of it. Either say there will be no posting of the docs until well after BETA begins (to the public) and let those who are going to leave leave or do what they keep promising and post em. One way or the other can't have both ways you can't promise the docs and then get upset then people are frustrated because they want to see em.

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I've said it before and I'll say it again...I totally agree that Communication about the CU has been EXTREMELY poor...And TH has had his problems...but I learned something at the Summit...TH is HUMAN...Even though I still get into rant'fests with him all the time and often disagree with some things he posts, he works in Customer Service...he's not a Programmer...he's not a Producer...He just posts what other's tell him to post...so they give him what he BELIEVES is a solid timeline, he posts it, and then things change or he finds out the timeline wasn't as "solid" as he was lead to believe...The fact that it's happened so many times and so many people flame SOE because of it has lead SOE to make the policy of "Avoid posting any dates or timelines estimates"...

I've told people over and over...if you have to have a definite timeline, think 6 months...TH even went a step farther and stated "more then a mini-publish, less then a year"...So why do I keep saying 6 months? It's not because I've seen their secret timeline doc...It's because I know what's coming next and I know when they HAVE TO have the CU done by so they can move on to the next project...if the Devs didn't feel they could meet 6 months, they'd already be trying to scale the CU down over in the CU forums...they wouldn't have just delayed the Sandbox to "Add More"...

Besides all that...TH NEVER said that the Docs would be posted...he said he would try and get some or most of the information out when he could...It's the Correspondents who, after the CU, lead folks to believe the Docs would be posted publically...At the Summit we were told "When you get back home, we'll post the Docs"...Many of us thought that meant publically....turned out that it meant "post them in the Correspondent Development forum for further review"...We had an inkling about the Sandbox, but nothing about Beta or that it was there that people would get the Docs...

I know we've all been burned repeatedly...but I'm serious when I say that I'm confident we'll see the Sandbox go live early January, which means Beta will likely go live before January ends...the concensus is still that Beta could start as early as 2 weeks after the Sandbox goes online (but again, who knows what trouble us Sandbox testers will cause)...The sandbox would be live mid-December, but WE testers caused the most recent delay...maybe we should tell them "stop adding new things and don't incorporate any new ideas...it's more important to get this out and launched then to try and work out any possible issues"...

For the record Garvin's responce is 1375 words.

Man, Garvin you can type.

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garvin wrote:

Besides all that...TH NEVER said that the Docs would be posted...he said he would try and get some or most of the information out when he could...It's the Correspondents who, after the CU, lead folks to believe the Docs would be posted publically...At the Summit we were told "When you get back home, we'll post the Docs"...Many of us thought that meant publically....turned out that it meant "post them in the Correspondent Development forum for further review"...We had an inkling about the Sandbox, but nothing about Beta or that it was there that people would get the Docs...

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Huh?

Th 7/16/04

Right out of the gate, I’ll be working with the community to develop plans for the Combat Balance and post them on the site; we’ll do a few features and I will continue to post updates.

I believe Th did say they would post those to the site. he didn't say an alpha testing site but to the site and he's has never come back and said that what he meant was to a special side site that would only be seen by the prestigious few. Anyway that was not the point of my post. The point was STOP promising the posting of documents to keep people here be honest and quit the BS thats my message to the Devs and then you (Garvin)wouldn't be here defending them over what they did or didn't say and we wouldn't be discouraged over continued failed promises and grasping at every sound and fall of a dime for hope to a game we truly love or atleast the idea of a game that we truly love..... Its suppose to be Starwars baby...... Starwars thats why I'm here..... Starwars Geek right here proud of it and maybe thats why people like are so dissappointed.I thought we would be able to go out blaster blazing and have huge wars against the scourge know as the Rebel Alliance.. i didn't know I was going to have to carry a sword or a pike with a posion... anyway now I'm ranting. I just wish they'd pick a story and stick with it. Either release the documents or be honest and tell people they won't be released until after BETA.

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aeuralis wrote:

I TOO love this game and I long for the day that combat is balanced and the there is a reason to join the GCW.

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aeuralis wrote:

It is GREAT that they are posting all this stuff in the CU forum but we don't see it. I really hope that they are as responsive they were in JTL Beta.

Second I don't doubt you, I think that our current system looked good on paper and until the new system is tested we will not know how good the new system is.

Thirdly it is one thing for you to say things, while you saying things is nice and i really appreaciate it.

But there is the rub that I think TH has figured out...When he posted the timelines he was told about and things got delayed, he got flamed...so he stopped doing it...So I have been trying to post what I've heard or my own speculations, but when things take longer, anger and mistrust is direct towards me...

BUT i would like some OFFICAL announcement every once and a while, and not something like "Shorter than a year, but longer than a mini-publish".

If you got flamed everytime something went wrong OR even when things don't go wrong, woudl you post more then you felt you HAD to? What is the benefit for TH to post anything that isn't "set in stone"...if things go right, people say "about time" or "nice that SOE finally listened", and when things go wrong they just Flame away...So why would TH post anything different? And what would happen if he posted a smaller estimate of a timeline and things didn't happen on that schedule? If you had TH's job, wouldn't you learn from your previous mistakes that got you constantly flamed?

I TOO love this game and I long for the day that combat is balanced and the there is a reason to join the GCW.

It angers me to see the Dev's lack of communiaction driving all my friends from this game.

It's more the "lack of communication" that is driving people away...Tons of Correspondents with full access have left the game, and they knew everything coming...It's more of a lack of interest in the CURRENT game and the fact that there our other games out there that do look interesting...Since I've been playing I've seen tons of friends leave and honestly, more then half of them came back 3 months later when they got bored with what ever else they were playing...same is true with the CU...many people will return when the CU goes live....some might even come back when the CU hits TC...Those people who have left wouldn't come back and wouldn't have stayed if they had full access to the docs...they want interesting gameplay now, not glimpses of what's coming...If they are bored, it's a good time to take a break...I'm currently grinding out shipwright without buying up the needed resources (as much as possible)...so harvesting is going slow...so to avoid the bordom of just waiting, I log out and go play a game like the Matrix Online Beta from time to time...when I get bored there (or MxO Betais offline for the zillionth time, I come back and play my Commando or jump on TC)...If I didn't have other diversions I'd go nuts (more so then currently)...

It angers me to not be effective in PVP in the class i want to play.

Agreed...its sucks...and some of the changes the Sandbox testers have recently pushed for (being added hopefully during this most recent delay) are PvP related to help us operate ever better in that environment...Combine that with the changes to the HAM system, Death/Incapp, and Armor as well as the fact that I've mentioned we are seeing boosts in our defenses, speed and accuracy and good times are coming...it's just the wait that sucks...Basically I'm TELLING you some of the more important parts of the Docs here and in my other hint posts...the only things you are missing are numbers and specifics on how these things are changing...I'M GIVING YOU THE OUTLINE YOU ARE ASKING FOR IN MY POSTS, I just can't give you details, but outlines aren't about details...

It angers me that to be competeive in PVPI have tobe a Defense-Stacker or a JEDI, or have UBER loot.

And time will fix this as well...Jedi, Defense-Stackers adn Uber Loot folks are all being "tweaked" in the CU...We are going to be running tests on all of those things...The Devs have even said we'll have some access to Uber loot to test out and see how the CU changes will "fix" issues with that...

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