Commando Archive
Thread: Crazy Thought About the HAR...
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garvin
Fri Feb 13, 2004 11:16 am
#1
Ok...so this one is pretty out there...but what do people think...
What if the HAR was changed so that it did NO wound or direct personal damage at all via it's specials when someone is wearing armor...Instead, it just ATE armor at a faster rate and at range...It would still do damage to those without armor, but those with armor equiped, it would just speed up the decay process and reduce resist levels (even if it just temporarily reduces resist levels)...Maybe even an Armor Decay DoT of some sort...and it would have to have ranged specials...
Here is my reasoning...Heat resists in armor are going to be the death of us..Everyone and their mother know (or will know soon) that if they get a set of armor with 80% heat protection they can easily beat a Commando who is using the FT...They will kite us to death and take barely any damage at all...
Our strategy could be to use the HAR to wear down their armor at a distance. Looking at armor prices these days and the fact that people go out of their way to make their armor elite, they will hate the idea of Acid eating away at their armor...They'd need to try and finish us faster or come closer so we might be inclined to use our FT instead...
I bring this up because I'm pretty attached to my armor myself...I've worked hard to get the right mods in it, get it perfectly sliced, etc...paid a pretty penny when all is said and done...and just look how much people hate the 1% decay...imagine if they knew that by kiting us, we'd just do major damage to their armor instead of to them...they'd rather come closer to take direct damage (which would be less of a decay rate on the armor)...
This could be configured in a way that PvE, it could wear down the defenses on an opponent with high heat or other resists...imagine if we are fighting something with 100% heat resists...we hit them a couple of times with the HAR and all of the sudden the heat resists are down to 80%...couple of more times and down to 60%...etc...now we can switch to the FT and finish them off...Same with ATSTs...if we could remove a layer or 2 of their armor via the HAR, then blast them with our other weapons for more armor...think of the possibilties...
I like the idea ofa weapon that specifically targets armor...especially since there are such high resists out there that specially target our weapon...Seems like a balanced trade off...
What do people think? Is this just a crazy idea...I actually think the Dev's might go for this for the same reasons they defend Insurance Decay so much...they have said they wanted to create a repair market for AS's as well as force people to buy more from crafters...
If this actually went through, we could easily become one of the most hated professions...I kind of like that idea...lol
Zito75
Fri Feb 13, 2004 11:20 am
#2
Thats interesting...sounds cool to me...though I think it would make sense that the HAR does SOME damage besides destroying armor/lowering defense.
Yet another way to combine the HAR and FT into one tree 
garvin
Fri Feb 13, 2004 11:26 am
#3
I'll expand a bit on my idea...it would still do damage...but if someone is wearing armor it would target that first...OR...it would do damage on it's normal shots and it's specials would target just armor...we have our FT and our LP (hoping that we get some mods and specials) do use for focused damage...I think it would be fun to have a weapon that targets something else besides damage to the person...Hit them where it hurts...They want to have high resists against us, so give us a weapon to take those resists away...
maddogs
Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:05 pm
#4
gavin absoalotly not no way in hell
this would cous grifeing to the max
no way in hell do i want a noob hruting my 2millon doler armor lol
if you get my drifed no one would want to pvp agents us and we be nerfd fast and hard
darknys
Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:12 pm
#5
As long as it was armor "Damage" which regenerated, I'd be totally cool with this.
Actually, I'd really, really like this... but not if I had to buya new suit of armor anytime a commando was feeling snarky.
(YAy! EdiT BuTTonXXOr!)
Message Edited by darknys on 02-13-2004 02:18 PM
garvin
Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:46 pm
#6
How about this then MadDog...what if it JUST focused on Resists and not decay?...and it only lowered them temporarily...every successful hit would do reduce a specific level of resists...say something like 10% for acidsingle1 and 25% for acidsingle2...this wouldn't be permanent and would open the door for us to get more flame damage on the person or NPC...acidcone1 &2 could do the same but for groups of targets...and it could be on a timer WITH STACKING!!!
It could become our startegy to target a ranged opponent, hit them with an acid special to lower their resists, then switch to the FT got get more damage done...
I would still have to insist that the HAR would be moved to 64m range on it's specials...maybe the acidcone could stay at 16m or move to 32m...but the acidsingles would need to be 64m....
Gamble
Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:51 pm
#7
I didn't read the full post but I've seen simlar threads. I originally was of the same midn of maddog that it would just be a massive griefing tool. However, the thought of only temporary dmg (or more accurately just temporarily lowering armor resistances) would be a nice tactical weapon. Perhaps break from the single1/single2 cone1/cone2 mold and replace them with completely different tactical (ie the one discussed) specials. This would leave the default attack as acid damage (hopefully with an added AP2) . One possible would be a posture change attack (not KD) that was possibly a cone attack. This would allow us to catch up with kiters while not being a full KD, which I don't believe commandoes will get anytime soon.
KeltinOxford
Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:57 pm
#8
I'm all for this idea. This both makes the HAR useful and adds strategy for us and our opponents. It's creative and from my point of view, not overly powerful. I do agree that if there is any chance of this happening, it would have to be a temporary thing....not permanent decay. Clever idea Garvin...
Somehow though, I feel as though the devs would never go for this. It's probably "very complicated" and it would throw their precious balance all out of whack.
garvin
Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:11 pm
#9
Good idea but put into effect we would hear more calls for nerf than ever before. People complained about wound damage that can be healed basically for free. Imagine the complaints for damage to armor that cost them an arm and a leg. Even if it was temporary damage induced by acid single1 or 2 that means we would still have to get into melee range to fireso they would still kite us. But I do have to say, its good to see ideas for HAR other than expensive firewood.
Don't discount the Flame Throwers non-special shots as they do hit targets that are ranged...If resists were temporiarly reduced then we would be able to do more damage at ranged distance...imagine if you could temporarily reduce someone's heat resist from 80% to 50%, then hit them with an overpoweredshot1 via the Flame Thrower...Every percentage point that the resist is lowered means the much more damage we can do whether it be with our specials or not...
Think about it from a strategy standpoint...catching kiters there really isn't a good solution based on the Commando Profession alone...and if that person kiting us has decent armor, they could be reducing our ranged damage by up to 80% (heat resists)...is it better to leave it at that, or would it be at least a little helpful if we could reduce that 80% to 40% via a few quick strategic ranged HAR specials, then use the FT against 40% resists instead of 80% resists. If we can't get close enough to use an FT special, have the reduction down to 40% is still something helpful...
And my suggestion is for all resists..so this could be helpful for Commandos who dabble other weapons that do different types of resists...
And since the popular opinion is that it be temporary, there should be no valid nerf cries..as our damage wouldn't be greatly enhanced and the kiter would still have an advantage that the Flame specials are still avoidable...plus we'd be taking a risk using the HARsince it's specials wouldn't do direct damage, just resist damage..it would leave us open for attack...
If it worked this way, I'd start to consider the HAR our opening weapon...use it to set up for the FT finish...
garvin
Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:18 pm
#10
also, we'll be spending a lot of time using acidsingle2 on people, thus, leaving us open to attacks. if we're to use 2 specials, even if they're made as fast as the flamer, we're still vulnerable for about 14 seconds. that's 14 seconds of us doing no damage, and them pummeling us. its also making us rely on groups, and being a pure support class.
Hopefully since acidsingle would be different then flamesingle it would have different rules...I don't see a reason for any delay beyond the speed of the actual rifle...if it doesn't do any direct damage to the opponent (just temporarily damages their resists) then it seems balanced...
In reality, if you think about it, it's really on taking us partly to where we use to be before resists started working...this would be the story when fighting someone outside 16m...nothing would be different then before...in fact it would give the kiter a bit more time to get a few extra shots on us...the big difference would come in when if and when we can get them into 16m range...imagine the damage we could do via a flame special on someone with low or no heat resists...the dot and such would be the same, but that initial burst would mean that much more to us...and again we'd be able to use the arguement, you got to close...
This would also be heavily fair for Melee opponents because even if we try to lower their resists, that still no damage to them directly (meaning they get extra shots in on us for damage) while we try and set them up for a low resist flame special...
Kovix
Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:38 pm
#11
Only question I have is if the proposition is for the HAR to entirely cause damage to armor resists. Like would regular shots do small amounts of damageand have specials do the bulk or just have specials do all the damage to resists and keep regular shots dealing out damage to HAM?
Kovix, Master Commando
garvin
Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:45 pm
#12
I would like to see the regular shots still do damage...the specials would be devoted to lowering resists unless someone isn't wearing armor or their resists have reached 0%...then it would do damage above it's normal shots...
The specials could also do double duty...damage + resist lowering...The weapons would still not out damage or replace the Flame Thrower, but it would be useful to set up for a flame thrower shot/special.
Raptor2k1
Fri Feb 13, 2004 3:58 pm
#13
Hmm, why not take the best of both worlds? Perhaps make a special that's designed to lower resists (maybe reduce armor level by 1? per shot, with a long cool-down) and other normal rifleish attacks that can alternatively be used at long/medium range?
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