Commando Archive
Thread: Starnick: Ask the devs for this... it will truly make commando 5-damage rating!
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tacwraith
Wed May 11, 2005 6:14 pm
#1
Its so simple its not even funny.
If the devs put an 'advanced armor break' passive abilityon the MASTER box of Commando (to shy the dabbling monkeys away) then all commando weapons suddenly become REAL heavy hitters.
How does this work?
Simple! When Master Box is achieved the game will register EVERY shot from a HEAVY WEAPON / GRENADE as having'innateadvanced armor break'.
Thus our pathetically low damage heavy weapons will suddenly double in damage.
I think this fixes the real reason why the devs wont be fixing commando now: If they give our heavy weps really high DPS then every jackarse out there will pick up a branch of commando and we go back to the solo-everything gameplay style.
But if they are forced to take master commando thats a different thing altogether..the skillpoint drain is too big to allow high medic skill+high defense skills + high damage proffession special boxes to go along with commando all at once.
Skwall
Wed May 11, 2005 6:35 pm
#2
Too buff, w/ the AOE (if it ever works correctly) you could potentially just make a ui action cycletargetoutward macro and break through everyone's armor in PVP. Not only that, its ranged, and commandos would be an onverkill profession. We just need to get our DPS back (not that DPS matters much though) and get all of the pressing issues to be fixed first.
tacwraith
Wed May 11, 2005 7:21 pm
#3
No, you dont get it.
our dps now is the lowest of any elite proffession.
ive yet to see a heavy weapon held by a master commandowith dps that can possibly ever match a master rifleman holding a t21.
To make commando the 5rated damage dealer we need to be able to do damage RELIABLY. Meaning amaster rifleman can face something with 6k armor rating and get his1500damage per shotmitigated down to 600 damage. Commando oth, will fire his 1000per shot attack and break through the armor, inflicting 800 damage.
AOE capable. Works ONLY with heavy weapons and grenades.
Think like a devforasecond. If you increase commando dpson the weapons themselves all you will get is the proffession being extremely overpowered because every master rifleman will take one line of commando (heavy weps) so he can use sniper shot+very high damage heavy weapon (heavy lightning beam cannon). Result? freaking commando dabblers doing 2000+ a hit and the cries for nerf go out and who gets nerfed? Commando.
If master commando box gives armor brreak perk to commando weaponsONLY then that same master rifleman will have to master commando..leaving him with little skillpoints to spendon stacking defenses or getting super-healing abilities. Itsbalancingtrade-off. If you are concerned about AOE in PVE forget it.. aoe = mass aggro with or without the armor break. pvp? armor break will just balance out the low damage range of our weapons.. and in pvp everyone is stuffed with foods and has medic abilities. So again its a trade-off. Balanced.
try it. have a swordman put the master level armor break and then you shoot a heavy weapon at it. compare the damage. See the light.
theorb22
Wed May 11, 2005 7:34 pm
#4
tacwraith wrote:
No, you dont get it.
our dps now is the lowest of any elite proffession.
ive yet to see a heavy weapon held by a master commandowith dps that can possibly ever match a master rifleman holding a t21.
To make commando the 5rated damage dealer we need to be able to do damage RELIABLY. Meaning amaster rifleman can face something with 6k armor rating and get his1500damage per shotmitigated down to 600 damage. Commando oth, will fire his 1000per shot attack and break through the armor, inflicting 800 damage.
AOE capable. Works ONLY with heavy weapons and grenades.
Think like a devforasecond. If you increase commando dpson the weapons themselves all you will get is the proffession being extremely overpowered because every master rifleman will take one line of commando (heavy weps) so he can use sniper shot+very high damage heavy weapon (heavy lightning beam cannon). Result? freaking commando dabblers doing 2000+ a hit and the cries for nerf go out and who gets nerfed? Commando.
If master commando box gives armor brreak perk to commando weaponsONLY then that same master rifleman will have to master commando..leaving him with little skillpoints to spendon stacking defenses or getting super-healing abilities. Itsbalancingtrade-off. If you are concerned about AOE in PVE forget it.. aoe = mass aggro with or without the armor break. pvp? armor break will just balance out the low damage range of our weapons.. and in pvp everyone is stuffed with foods and has medic abilities. So again its a trade-off. Balanced.
try it. have a swordman put the master level armor break and then you shoot a heavy weapon at it. compare the damage. See the light.
I hate to interrupt, but CH actually has less DPS....my poor MCH/Commando self hasn't been having much fun in PvP coincidentally :/.
It does sound like a nice idea though, I can't think of any reason why commando shouldn't have an innate master armor break.
Message Edited by theorb22 on 05-11-2005 07:35 PM
tacwraith
Wed May 11, 2005 7:48 pm
#5
really think about it. our damage rating of 5 is really only applicable if we can deliver more damage than others.. dependably. against mobs we'dbe kings. in pvp we're high damage aoe dealers.. but master commando has the drawback of little to no defenses compared to double ranged elite masteries... so when we hit we gotta hit hard.
Kesslan
Wed May 11, 2005 8:05 pm
#6
I dunno. if ind combining commando with another ranged proff gets my defences up really high. Respeced into BH and I've got over 250 Melee/range defence when ever i'm using a heavy weapon
Figu
Wed May 11, 2005 8:20 pm
#7
I agree with him >_< my flamethrower revives the enemy more often then i plz lol ive been forced to use my elite carbine majority of major hunts
tacwraith
Wed May 11, 2005 9:12 pm
#8
kesslan: the max you can get in general ranged defense is 195 and this is spending it only on ranged proffessions and novice smuggler+novice commando for the extra defenses and specials. (no bh since too many skillpoints wasted on scout)
master commando+master rifleman+dabbling in pistoleer ranged defense branch gives you 185 ranged defenses.
heavy weapons mods and rifleman mods do increase the defenses at near 250 in both cases. However, the non-commando elite double masteries have a buttload of specials that commando+rifleman (or commando+whatever) does not have. And im talking about damage modifying / debuffing abilities.Theres the huge gap in our damage dealing ability AND in our defenses.
if master commando is taken along with another non-ranged proffession then we get stuck with 145 total ranged accuracy.. any damage you do (if you hit) to a target is largely reduced as well.
So in essence, the commando AS a proffession is 100% reliant on OTHER proffessions to give it damage dealing ability AND defenses. Which in itself is extremely stupid.
the armor break however, balances it all out. Our damage output even when using basic ranged attack will be equal to someone using their basic ranged proffession attack (aka body shot for pistoleers). If commando uses a heavy weapon alongside another proffession's damage multiplier special (aka body shot), he will get more damage out of it.. but remember: we are supposed to be the highest ranged damage dealers.
We should not get 2X the damage others do, that is why our heavy weapons have 1/3rd the max DPS other elite ranged proffessions have. the armor break will give us an extra 1/3rd damage added on top of that.. so we'd be at 2/3rds. Then add the damage modifiers of other proffession specials and we get 3/3rds. Then add the dot and effect abilities built into the weapons and we get 4/3 damage. Effectively giving commando 25% more damage on average.
Raptor2k1
Thu May 12, 2005 1:41 pm
#9
That's actually a rather clever solution. It'd be the equivalent of giving us AP on our HW shots at master basically. It would definately solve the damage issue without having to make our weapons to powerful.
Then again, there would be no point to dabbling in commando for anything other than AE states, so maybe a lesser version of it at Incendiary IV?
Could call it AP rounds, or something like that.
Gamble
Thu May 12, 2005 1:49 pm
#10
I have no problem with dabblers but I see no reason in adding something in just so people can dabble. I like the idea becase at the moment we're getting somewhere ina 2-3 range of the dmg charts.
StarNick
Thu May 12, 2005 2:08 pm
#11
Fyi, made a proposal/idea thread on the corr forums concerning this and quoted parts of your post tac. Thanks for a great idea...and who knows? It may just be easier to implent, and be more commando-esque (a point I made...hey afterall, it DID get us our Proton rifle? 
)
)
tacwraith
Thu May 12, 2005 8:18 pm
#12
it did?
why the heck you put it on that jedi cyborg freak then dude? 
(im kidding)
(im kidding)
Raptor2k1
Thu May 12, 2005 8:23 pm
#13
If it wasn't for that argument our master-level weapon would be the Massassi Ink Rifle. 
Something to think on...
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