Commando Archive

Thread: Developer Preferences and Opinion

Holgerjr
Fri Feb 06, 2004 6:01 am
#1
I have noticed several posts about the developers indicating that they do not like the commando profession. Whether or not this is true, I donot know. I do realize that the developers created this game system from the ether realm. It takes some work to try and balance out the various components of the game to provide fair play to all. Now in consideration to the developers, who may find the commando profession a daunting task to make fair, I agree that the commando profession in very complicated.


The commando is a master of arms, no other class needs to buy so many expensive arms to fit themselves out. Now I have read how everyone is upset that the flamethrower is being nerfed. I have also read about the combat medics ability to thrown grenades a long distance. I believe that the flamethrower should not be the commandos best weapon. Instead it should be grenades. As such grenades should be more accurate and have greater range. Honestly, when you throw something than has a blast radius of 5-10 m how can you miss it? That is 15 to 30 ft. A grenade is toss and forget weapon. Further the range should be expanded to fit in with the combat medics range capabilities.


Next, being a heavy weapons expert, the heavy weapons we use should have greater accuracy. If anon combat trained persontoday can use a RPG or a SAM to knock out Humvees and airplanes with good accuracy, why would a trained combat person of the future be less accurate? I very seldom here of RPGs missing 3 out of 4 times. Accuracy should be fixed on these weapons.


Now back to the dislike of our profession. I would have to say that there are some things wrong with the profession and something that are good. I have heard person complain about the launcher pistol. If so, then you are not using it right. The pistol is great for PvP combat. If you can get off 2-3 shots, you have yourself a smoke screen, which allows you to run away and blast away at the same time. Most composite armor out there never has super high resistance to blast damage. Thus, if you use your extra skill points to master as much of pistoleer or smuggler as you can, then you can be a pretty deadly PvP killer. Somewhere in these posts, and kind person, has detailed PvP combats of commandos and other professions. The faster killers were pistoleers. You can master commando and pistoleer, and have 15 skill points left over for novice medic. At this point if you are unable to to rock at PvP with a Launcher Pistol, then you are not using your availble specials correctly. Alternatively, you can master unarmed or rifleman to balance out your PvP skills. This the benefit of commando, in that you can master another combat profession. The poor Bounty Hunter cannot.


OK so you might same, its an elite hybrid combat profession, and why is it we need to master another combat profession. Ok this is valid. However, if in fact commandos are hvy wpn specialists primarily, then it should not be expected that a hvy wpns guy is good at close combat.


Which brings us to the point. Since we are hvy wpns people, and we are lacking in close combat capabilities. Then the requirement to have unarmed IV should be dropped.


Now I may be chastised for this, but as a commando I care about the profession, and feel very poorly that the developers would single out my profession for dislike. In this sort of situation one can become negative or positive. I would like to suggest replies to this posting, where person suggest the top 5 items needed to correct Commando, while considering the things that can be taken away from commando or nerfed at the same time. The big misconception is that we commandos want everything. Which may be true, but I believe we need to concede that we cannot have everything. (I can feel the disagreement to this already ).


With this in mind here are my suggestions:


1) Reduced the overall power of the flamethrower and convert that power to the heavy weapons and grenades.

2) Reduce time to fire on the hvy wpns/grenades or increase the accuracy on these.

3) Increase the armor piercing capabilities on the hvy wpns.

4) Increase the range of the grenades.

5) Place Flamethrower/Acid Rifle in the samebrance and branch tree for pistols or carbine or unarmed skills. After all you learn the same shots for both weapons, cones and singles.


I believe by increasing the commandos reliance on the truely heavy weapons, that it is a step in moving the commando to his hvy support role. Reducing the damage of the FT/HAR decreases their importance to the class, and allows for access to a new branch of specialization in one of Pistols/Rifles/Carbines/Unarmed.


It is my hope that we can positively suggest balanced and acceptable changes to the developers, such that they can be included in the upcoming patches.


Come guys, no one likes to be yelled at, belittled, ridiculed, or otherwise mistreated. This of course includes the developers and ourselves. Causing or perpetuating someone to become upset with our whole profession will result in large quantities of spit in our hamburgers.



Toasted.
I like my piks toasted, with a little butter.
StarNick
Fri Feb 06, 2004 6:07 am
#2

most of what you've posted about rings true, and has been on a want list for commandos for a veeery long time...hopefully the devs will *finally* do something about it


however:


"Thus, if you use your extra skill points to master as much of pistoleer or smuggler as you can, then you can be a pretty deadly PvP killer"


We've spent 169 pts to master Commando..yet need pistoleer to be a deadly PvP Killer? Somethings wrong in that, because a Master Gunfighter can get novice commando, and be as deadly as we would with Master Gunfighter/Master Commando..but at 92 skill points less...That balanced? That even fair?


Under no circumstances should we be required to take up another proffession to be proefficient with our "primary" gun (devs back around early september said that LP would be our primary gun to use..with hvy weapons being special and not frequent use..)





--Stern Synex-- --Master Commando-- --IDI Forces--
--Proud Commando of 42 Months-- --Last Commando Correspondent--

We fear no enemy...we are the few, the proud, and the brave. We are, Commando!

Pyro Games

Holgerjr
Fri Feb 06, 2004 6:16 am
#3

I agree. We should not be required to learn any other professions to use our LP. Which is why I believe the FT/HAR should be combined and give us a new tree like the smugglers Dirty Fighting tree for us to improve our use of the Launcher Pistol.


My only point was that Commandos, in this game, are hvy 'support' wpns specialists. In this role usually close support personnel protect us from other close support personnel so that we can do the big damage. PvP is a close support type combat. I mean honestly, with a pet or a TKA I can take down a Rancor with the HAR faster than any other profession in the game. When it comes to taking down the big creatures, the commando has a nice edge. But go take on some Force Sensitives or Sisters, and the situation changes a bit. Although, the particle beam cannon works wonders on sisters if your pet or TKA can keep them off you for a couple shots.






Toasted.
I like my piks toasted, with a little butter.
maddogs
Fri Feb 06, 2004 6:30 am
#4
I can take down a Rancor with the HAR faster than any other profession in the game.


man you must have a legendary har then becous i can solo mutent rancors useing tk esly in about 10-25 secs without a tank same with pistoler and a dx2



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Daniel' Judson-Leonheart

Holgerjr
Fri Feb 06, 2004 7:12 am
#5

Well considering that with master commando you can get acid single 2. You now can use acid single 2. This produces about 4000 dmg per shot. So it takes a couple shots, while kneeling and its down. How your TKA is able to accomplish this, I am unsure. I realize you have knockdown, stun, and blinding effects, but your damage capacities are not high to my knowledge. For sake of argument, lets say there exist a rancor with 25000 HAM, my acid rifle speed is 4. Your TKA speed is 1. I am unaware as to the top damage you can achieve as a TKA. However, lets suggest 1000. This would indicated that it would take the exact same time for a commando to kill a rancor as a TKA. In 4 secs TKA does 4000 and Commando does 4000. However, I will suggest that TKA does less than 1000 per hit. As such it would take TKA longer than commando. This same principle applies to all professions with the exception of Bounty Hunter, who has a hvy dmg wpn, but the rancor is resistant to it.


If it took your TKA less than 30 secs to kill a rancor, I am very much impressed, and would like to know where you got your force enhanced vibro knucklers to enable you to inflict so much damage.





Toasted.
I like my piks toasted, with a little butter.
Nighthelm
Fri Feb 06, 2004 7:16 am
#6

If when the devs come out and say that commando is a heavy weapons specialist, I (and I'd be willing to bet over 60% of the current commando population) will drop it and never look back. Why on earth would anyone spend 169 skill points (the second most in the game) just so they can shoot at a turret or an at-st once every blue moon (and even at that, riflemen, pistoleers and tka's are much better in those roles). The original description given by the devs described commandos as an elite soldier, that can easily fight its way out of many situations in which other professions would be doomed. Our strength was going to be our versatility. That is why I became a commando, and if we are to become nothing more than heavy weapons specialists, it will be, by far, the biggest waste of skill points in the game. If the devs do go the heavy weapons specialists route, then they shouldget rid of the unarmed and master marksmen requirements, and have the prequisite for commando be the ranged support line from marksmen, making commandoa normal elite class. As to your point about the LP, I am currently a smuggler so I can get some specials for my LP. The fact that anyone has to take up another class to use a weapon from their main class is completely and utterly inexcusable. Did you read what you said? In order to be a good commando, you need to be a pistoleer? That makes sense to you?


Furthermore, any marksmen with kip up shot can quite easily take down a rancor with a good suit of armor and buffs (very easily). I'm sorry you don't get to hunt rancors that often, as the HAR is one of the absolute slowest ways to take down a rancor. What's a commando doing shooting a rancor anyways? Our role should be almost exclusively a GCW role, as our profession is more militarily oriented than any other profession out there.




Jered Nighthelm of the Keepers of a New Hope
Holgerjr
Fri Feb 06, 2004 7:33 am
#7

I agree that the commando as advertised and as it exists does not remotely resemble one another. In fact the online description of commando on this website, states that commandos craft weapons.


I am suggesting that the end result of what has been created is a hvy wpn support specialist. It seems to be a Frankenstein type creation, plan for one thing and get another.


I also agree that a commando should be an all around versatile soldier. However the current incarnation is strictly a hvy wpn support specialist. Keeping this in mind, and the fact that devs only make incremental changes, it is my belief that we should work as group and push for incremental changes. Crying and whining very seldom exacts the results you desire, unless you look like Carmen Elektra and your target is a male of the species. The purpose of this post is to try and present our case in a positve manner, present concessions, and ask for incremental adjustments.


As far as adding a profession to make commando better, at least we have the option. The BH does not.


In regards to rancor hunting, my partner (a BH) and myself hunt rancor almost every night for 2-3 hours. We do not use buffs, as I believe those to be the single greates factor to imbalancing the game that exists. If there were not buffed TKAs then the commando would be a one shot one kill profession. IF we can get the shot in and it hits. Buffs change the whole dynamics of the game, I sincerely disagree with there usage and existence. Buffs allow for super hits and the ability to have super armor without any consequence. However, this is a different subject altogether. Yet, if you got rid of buffs the game would be a lot more balanced. As balance is what the developers are striving for.





Toasted.
I like my piks toasted, with a little butter.
maddogs
Fri Feb 06, 2004 7:34 am
#8

Well considering that with master commando you can get acid single 2. You now can use acid single 2. This produces about 4000 dmg per shot. So it takes a couple shots, while kneeling and its down. How your TKA is able to accomplish this, I am unsure. I realize you have knockdown, stun, and blinding effects, but your damage capacities are not high to my knowledge. For sake of argument, lets say there exist a rancor with 25000 HAM, my acid rifle speed is 4. Your TKA speed is 1. I am unaware as to the top damage you can achieve as a TKA. However, lets suggest 1000. This would indicated that it would take the exact same time for a commando to kill a rancor as a TKA. In 4 secs TKA does 4000 and Commando does 4000. However, I will suggest that TKA does less than 1000 per hit. As such it would take TKA longer than commando. This same principle applies to all professions with the exception of Bounty Hunter, who has a hvy dmg wpn, but the rancor is resistant to it.


If it took your TKA less than 30 secs to kill a rancor, I am very much impressed, and would like to know where you got your force enhanced vibro knucklers to enable you to inflict so much damage.



first off the har only shoots ever 10 secs unles you have some ungodly har with ungodly stats(the specails on the har havea haribly long relod timeyou oviously never used it lol )


secound off i do esly with them kd 3-4k dam a sec and thats not using my ungodly 360 max dam vibs if i use them wich i wouldint becous there pvp only i could esly do 5-8k dam a sec and being buffed and on moun i dont care about hame cost becous i have none!!


me as a pistoler with a dx2 can esly do 1-1.5k dam a sec wich still out dams you and your har lol


honestly i dont think you play the commando profesion becous every commando know the har is broke and has a dps about 200




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Daniel' Judson-Leonheart

Holgerjr
Fri Feb 06, 2004 7:42 am
#9

OK thanks for the information on the uber TKA. It is a well perceived fact that the pistoleer and TKA are uber. The fact that you do 3000 damage with your fists is something the developers need to adjust. I very much doubt you can punch down a concrete wall, but a rocket launcher can. In the game the rocket launcher does less damage than the dmg you say you do.


HAR I use it often. You can slice a HAR to 35%. If you care about your profession, you buy as many HARs as it takes to get the absolute best speed on it you can. Max I have been able to get is spd 3.8, and a 3.1 FT. Additionally, if you then use the overcharge2 shot, the speed of attack is very fast with nice damage. Of course this eats your weapon, but we are commandos and if you did not want to spend lots of money on crappy weapons then you would be a TKA.


I suggest you get yourself a decently sliced HAR and use overcharge2 on acid vulnerable creatures, then let me know how it goes.





Toasted.
I like my piks toasted, with a little butter.
Holgerjr
Fri Feb 06, 2004 7:48 am
#10

In addition Mr Maddogs. Why are you so hostile? Like mentioned in the post the hostile tone taken by a great deal of posts in the commando forum does the commando profession no advantage. The purpose here is to seek reasonable incremental changes from the developers to increase the effectiveness of the profession. Why it is you feel it is necessary to attack me on this, I do not know.


Once again the point, be nice be reasonably and ask for incremental changes. As I am sure you do not look like Carmen Elektra, griping will get us no where as a group.


Being negative to devs and fellow commandos does little to increase the valure or standing of our profession.


Frustration breeds anger, but lets try to focus our energies as a group positively, and get something nice in the next patch for the commando.





Toasted.
I like my piks toasted, with a little butter.
Nighthelm
Fri Feb 06, 2004 7:51 am
#11
You are aware that the mods on the HAR are broken right? Check your skill modifier box using Cntrl+S. You'll see that the accuracy and speed mods both have mutliple ratings for each mod. In other words, your mods aren't stacking, thus you don't get better with it as you progress the tree. And if you really care about your profession, you'll join the other 99% of commandos proposing various, constructive ideas on a replacement for the HAR. Even if the mods were working, it would be nothing more than a diet flamethrower without a dot. If you check this board and the inconcept thread for commandos on that board, you'll find that we as a community are asking for some type of light repeating blaster/carbine type to replace that. For example, the official weapon of commandos during the clone wars, was the DC17 assualt rifle. Now I understand this is 30 years later, but many, many of the weapons from the prequels are present in the game, and it only makes sense that a weapon that was exclusively for commandos be placed in this game for commandos. We've even offered up suggestions to certify commandos with the beam rifle (which was originally intended to be a command weapon), as no professions currently can use it, yet weaponsmiths can still make them. There is a complete redesign of the combat engine (from the ground up) currently being worked on by the devs. Now is the time to propose radical changes such as these, as after this redesign, there will probably never be another chance to save our gimped profession.



Jered Nighthelm of the Keepers of a New Hope
maddogs
Fri Feb 06, 2004 7:59 am
#12
lol telling me to get a decint har lol my har speed is 3.9 and i tell ya the things a pice of crap its ben this way from day one i know i was the first master commando ever it might be a tad bit better now then at day one back then the cert dint even work but it still crap why use it when i have weps in marks men that can out dam it lol belive me iv tryed using it every pach to see if they fixed it yet and every time the answers no they havent


the fact is that commandos have the lowest dps out of all the combat profesions besides pike men for some reson you dont know this is a know fact to almost all the commandos you must have ben a loner you hole lvling time


go hunt with a master tk spaming kd then UH3 doing3-5k dam evrey secor master pistoler using fan shot doing1.5-2.5k dam evry sec wich is a 64m aoe attack or master riflemen using flush shot 2 doing 3-8kdam every sec wich also is a 64m aoe or fencer creeming things or a swordsmen using spin attack doing 6-8k dam to all the mobs on him ever 1-3 secs


really you neeed to hunt with masters more you will be apowled at the dam you see beeing dailled out compard to your flame singel 2 every 4.5-8.5 secends



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Daniel' Judson-Leonheart

maddogs
Fri Feb 06, 2004 8:08 am
#13

In addition Mr Maddogs. Why are you so hostile?


IM sorry were use to noobs comeing here stating saposed facts that are way off the wall and some time it gets onoying becous its oveious they have* no clue what there talikng about ill try and be more satell

Message Edited by maddogs on 02-06-2004 07:10 AM



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Daniel' Judson-Leonheart

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