Commando Archive
Thread: PVP AND YOU
With all due respect I must declare the10 following statements, given my experience in pvp, and my general distate for much of it. I myself am a Rifleman/Swordsman
The instances above are averages, I am quite aware that higher quality materials and a session with master smugglers can improve the above weapon stats, but that can be done with all of the weapons quite easily in equal proportion.
1. TKA always win in melee despite equal use of skill points by Pikeman, Swordsman, And Fencer
2. Commandos always win in short range, with an adjusted dps higher than the BH and any of the elite ranged professions, except rifleman, which cannot hit anything moving, or beyond the 4 meter marginof their operational 60 m minimum required to attain an accuracy modifier of +0. Commandos must merely master one line of their tree, as the other 3 are useless, due to the complete redundancy of grenades, rocket launchers, and particle beam cannons, for the rendering of the true function of the Commando is the destruction of vehicles and property.
3. Bounty hunters always win in Medium range, due to the stacking of confusion, knockdown with a carbine, and eye shot with a pistol, circumventing the original reason for knockdown timers, to facilitate the ability of another player to actually respond.
4. A bounty hunter is more accurate and faster with a pistol, than a pistoleer, despite spending 42 points less than the pistoleer in mastering the weapon. Of course a bh plods through scout skills, as well the rifle, and carbine trees, does investigations, fires a cannon, and learns tricks with a carbine, that the pistoleer does not, but how does this improve his aim with a pistol?
5. Every single Pistoleer, Carbineer, Commando, and Bounty Hunter special combat move is useful in PVP. Rifleman have very few. Concealshot, surpriseshot are not usable in PVP. Startleshot 1/2 has no special effects, and merely makes the person stand, in case they accidentally fell. Snipershot is useless, as rifleman do not win, against opponents of the above classes with similar skill. Strafeshot 1/2 is useless in pvp, as only riflemen take cover. Combat medics now heal mind. Foods return the mind pool to normal. The initial danger of the rifleman, as one shot terrors, is now gone, due to buffing, food, and the ability to close the distance, and ruin any rifleman. DOT attacks are now going to be non stackable, so that my combo of swordsman/rifleman is completely useless to me in PVE as well.
6. The slowest, least accurate, and least able to render an opponent into a state of pause(kd, stun, blind, dizzy), class, Swordsman, has the lowest ranged defense, therefore the easiest to Kite. the swordsman has 2 attacks which give a 30% chance of dizzying a target. Compare to 100% 1 min stuns for pikeman, 100% 1 minute stuns for TKA, and 100% 50 seconds dizzys for Fencers.
7. TKA, Fencer, and Carbine maintain ability to stirke any Pool, Swordsman and Rifleman are restricted to 1. Yes I know Swordsman do amazing dmg, I did 15550 once on a Lair, and routinely do 5000, I also get routinely killed in faction missions due to kiting, and stormtroopers which also happen to be master of melee.
8. Due to the virtual equalization of special dmg between classes, and dmg potential, the ability to impose effect is more important than dps. A TKA, has the ability to A)Stirke any pool at will B)Hit all pools simultaneously C)Supplement both KD/dizzy and Stun interchanged with dizzy to contravene the devs efforts to make pvp more interesting and fair through kd timers. D)Demonstrate mastery of PVE, with the highest toughness, and the second highest melee defense, next to Fencer, whose dps is less than a tithe of TKA.
9. The reported dmg of a lightsaber, upwards of 3000 at 1.0 spd, given specials at 2 and 3 modifiers, gives adjusted dps of 9000, using a weapon with ham rates of 5, is simply ridiculous. They have no business in the GCW. Lightsabering for the IMMENSE profit potential(over 30k missions) is plainly indicated and easily exploited(no not the illegal one), for unjust advancement. Takeingthe movies for example
ANH- Jedi Vs Jedi only
ESB- Same
ROTJ- Luke defeats 10 complete goons, and is almost captured, then almost killed
TPM- Jedi defeat 2 dozen inept droids, 2 of which were killed by a clumsy jar jar, in a later battle
AOTC- Jedi battle, Anakin is overwhelmed and disarmed by an assembly line
Their is no precedent for 'uber-Jedi' it is a fantasy. Their asset is their intuition. They are not God. Darth Vader used the force to deflect Hans blaster bolts, for if he did not they would kill him.
10. The current system for Jedi encourages a lifeless devotion to the procurement of unfair advantage(becoming a Jedi). In reality a Jedi would be forced to allegiance, by his sense of right to the rebellion, or in fidelity to the Imperial cause, a rogue and wonton Jedi force, would be quickly discovered by all manner of person in the galaxy that would destroy them, FOR GOOD. The original permadeath system was completely justified. The refusal to remove group TEF will result in more jedi, grouped with coverts, to destroy the small groups that would band together to fight a Jedi(the original concept). With Permadeath striken the capacity of these powerful forces to wreak havoc without consequence is truly frightening
have you actually played as a TKM?
I don't know about others here, but I constantly get my ass handed to me by fencers. My knockdown almost never connects and their super dizy always screws me over
One, two, three and five are definetly not true.
I dunno about four, six and 9.
Seven...TKA can hit any pool, but I'm not sure about Fencers and Carbineers.
Eight and ten I agree with (except 8c. As a TKM I'm not trying to work around anything except getting my ass handed to me in a battle). Status effects are very important and, as a TKM/Ranger, I am a very powerful hunter. As to ten, with permadeath gone the system will be loaded with Jedi soon if the overhaul of the profession doesn'tgo livequickly.
I have seen no contempt held for people with constructive critisisms if they have data to back them up and present a viable solution. 'Nerf' calling and 'trolling' are contemptible offenses. I haven't seen anyone calling this game perfect.
P.S. There is no 'always' in SWG that I have found.
tometaophion wrote:
With all due respect I must declare the10 following statements, given my experience in pvp, and my general distate for much of it. I myself am a Rifleman/Swordsman
The instances above are averages, I am quite aware that higher quality materials and a session with master smugglers can improve the above weapon stats, but that can be done with all of the weapons quite easily in equal proportion.
1. TKA always win in melee despite equal use of skill points by Pikeman, Swordsman, And Fencer
1. This is a ridiculous statement. Our city was attacked last night by a detatchment of imps most of whom had pistoleer,a little brawler,and fencer skills and buffs up the wazzo. I also was buffed and was able as a master tk to hold my own but failed 7 out of 10 times to even land a blow due to the dodge stacking that 6 out of 10 of them had. I was owned a few times and I killed a few but I was by no means "always the winner"
2. Commandos always win in short range, with an adjusted dps higher than the BH and any of the elite ranged professions, except rifleman, which cannot hit anything moving, or beyond the 4 meter marginof their operational 60 m minimum required to attain an accuracy modifier of +0. Commandos must merely master one line of their tree, as the other 3 are useless, due to the complete redundancy of grenades, rocket launchers, and particle beam cannons, for the rendering of the true function of the Commando is the destruction of vehicles and property.
2. Having been a master commando for most of my time in SWG until just recently I catagorically refute the idea that a commando always win in short range. The only way they eventually have a chance in pvp is if they can get a DoT on you ( 1 in 3 chance they will at master). I killed 2 master commandos last night no problem. You are right however as to the completely useless 3 out of 4 trees that the commando must master to get to flame cone 2 and soon the flame single 2 if it moves to master as they devs seem to indicate may happen.
3. Bounty hunters always win in Medium range, due to the stacking of confusion, knockdown with a carbine, and eye shot with a pistol, circumventing the original reason for knockdown timers, to facilitate the ability of another player to actually respond.
3. What is with this "always" stuff. One of our best BH's although effective was killed repeatedly last nite by a swordman, fencer, brawler combo template player. We could never land either a punch ora effective shot on him. I had to go to my DX to get to him at all.
4. A bounty hunter is more accurate and faster with a pistol, than a pistoleer, despite spending 42 points less than the pistoleer in mastering the weapon. Of course a bh plods through scout skills, as well the rifle, and carbine trees, does investigations, fires a cannon, and learns tricks with a carbine, that the pistoleer does not, but how does this improve his aim with a pistol?
4. This may or may not be the case but one thing I do know BH defences suck. The Pistoleer and smugglar combo with TK is an awesome combo. The BH stands alone and cannot add alot of the skills from other trees if he masters like alot of other master combat classes can. So as a result the BH is allowed some accuracy bonuses at the expense to defence. This is not really the case for a Master Pistoleer.
5. Every single Pistoleer, Carbineer, Commando, and Bounty Hunter special combat move is useful in PVP. Rifleman have very few. Concealshot, surpriseshot are not usable in PVP. Startleshot 1/2 has no special effects, and merely makes the person stand, in case they accidentally fell. Snipershot is useless, as rifleman do not win, against opponents of the above classes with similar skill. Strafeshot 1/2 is useless in pvp, as only riflemen take cover. Combat medics now heal mind. Foods return the mind pool to normal. The initial danger of the rifleman, as one shot terrors, is now gone, due to buffing, food, and the ability to close the distance, and ruin any rifleman. DOT attacks are now going to be non stackable, so that my combo of swordsman/rifleman is completely useless to me in PVE as well.
6. My friend and business associate Sotaudi Crestlighter is a combo Master Rifleman, Master Swordman, Master Brawler. He ruled the combat situation last night for us at MAW City. He ruled due to his "non existent" specials and killed twice as many enemy combatants than anyone including me as a master tk. The worse problem we had all night was dealing with a single master rifleman picking us off from a distance even when we tried to keep moving and even with ranged mitigation. Perhaps you could get some tips from him.
6. The slowest, least accurate, and least able to render an opponent into a state of pause(kd, stun, blind, dizzy), class, Swordsman, has the lowest ranged defense, therefore the easiest to Kite. the swordsman has 2 attacks which give a 30% chance of dizzying a target. Compare to 100% 1 min stuns for pikeman, 100% 1 minute stuns for TKA, and 100% 50 seconds dizzys for Fencers.
6. True. But I have never seen any TK or any other "brawler" class get a 100% of anything including stun or dizzy if the opponent is properly buffed and prepared for combat ( fishak, mulon, etc. )
7. TKA, Fencer, and Carbine maintain ability to stirke any Pool, Swordsman and Rifleman are restricted to 1. Yes I know Swordsman do amazing dmg, I did 15550 once on a Lair, and routinely do 5000, I also get routinely killed in faction missions due to kiting, and stormtroopers which also happen to be master of melee.
7. We are masters of melee and our weakness is in the area of being kited. No doubt about it. This is why I am mastering pistoleer and smugglar. I think mixing skill sets is the general idea of the game.
8. Due to the virtual equalization of special dmg between classes, and dmg potential, the ability to impose effect is more important than dps. A TKA, has the ability to A)Stirke any pool at will B)Hit all pools simultaneously C)Supplement both KD/dizzy and Stun interchanged with dizzy to contravene the devs efforts to make pvp more interesting and fair through kd timers. D)Demonstrate mastery of PVE, with the highest toughness, and the second highest melee defense, next to Fencer, whose dps is less than a tithe of TKA.
8. What is the point you are trying to make? Yes the MASTER TERAS KASI kicks ass in melee range and tends to get owned if you are in a open field against a kiting ranged combatant. What's your point? WE ARE SUPPOSE TO KICK ASS in melee range. SO WHAT? Just because you have the ability IF you hit to do this does not mean you are going to succeed in any individual combat.
9. The reported dmg of a lightsaber, upwards of 3000 at 1.0 spd, given specials at 2 and 3 modifiers, gives adjusted dps of 9000, using a weapon with ham rates of 5, is simply ridiculous. They have no business in the GCW. Lightsabering for the IMMENSE profit potential(over 30k missions) is plainly indicated and easily exploited(no not the illegal one), for unjust advancement. Takeingthe movies for example
ANH- Jedi Vs Jedi only
ESB- Same
ROTJ- Luke defeats 10 complete goons, and is almost captured, then almost killed
TPM- Jedi defeat 2 dozen inept droids, 2 of which were killed by a clumsy jar jar, in a later battle
AOTC- Jedi battle, Anakin is overwhelmed and disarmed by an assembly line
Their is no precedent for 'uber-Jedi' it is a fantasy. Their asset is their intuition. They are not God. Darth Vader used the force to deflect Hans blaster bolts, for if he did not they would kill him.
9. Jedi and lightsabers have no place in a STAR WARS GALAXY game?
10. The current system for Jedi encourages a lifeless devotion to the procurement of unfair advantage(becoming a Jedi). In reality a Jedi would be forced to allegiance, by his sense of right to the rebellion, or in fidelity to the Imperial cause, a rogue and wonton Jedi force, would be quickly discovered by all manner of person in the galaxy that would destroy them, FOR GOOD. The original permadeath system was completely justified. The refusal to remove group TEF will result in more jedi, grouped with coverts, to destroy the small groups that would band together to fight a Jedi(the original concept). With Permadeath striken the capacity of these powerful forces to wreak havoc without consequence is truly frightening
10. I agree with you that the Jedi system is completely screwed in this game. There is no real checks and balance in the game and as a result those who would grief with this type of character class are the same " power gamers " who grief now and are used to games like AO and have no real role playing asperations. There is no Jedi "guild" that would control the behaviour of or enforce a code of ethics upon force sensitive characters. There are no Jedi in this time frame and if they ( the devs ) were truely concerned with the time line continuity this would not be an issue. But what SOE is concerned with is making money and to do so they need the Jedi for the power players. The system is flawed and the controls on Jedi growth is flawed upon this we agree.
tometaophion wrote:
What I stated was not opinion but fact, followed by analysis. You are aware of the general contempt that a majority of contributors on this forum DO show anyone that dares deny the prevailing notion that this game is perfect.Arent you?
5. Every single Pistoleer, Carbineer, Commando, and Bounty Hunter special combat move is useful in PVP. Rifleman have very few. Concealshot, surpriseshot are not usable in PVP. Startleshot 1/2 has no special effects, and merely makes the person stand, in case they accidentally fell. Snipershot is useless, as rifleman do not win, against opponents of the above classes with similar skill. Strafeshot 1/2 is useless in pvp, as only riflemen take cover. Combat medics now heal mind. Foods return the mind pool to normal. The initial danger of the rifleman, as one shot terrors, is now gone, due to buffing, food, and the ability to close the distance, and ruin any rifleman. DOT attacks are now going to be non stackable, so that my combo of swordsman/rifleman is completely useless to me in PVE as well.
This is where I quit reading.
With all due respect, you are either:
A) Not a Master Rifleman
B)Suck
C) Both A & B
Col. Cristos Diaz I should have stated that these assessments are based on players of similar skill. This is the way the devs look at it. That is why they do not give any good examples of when and where to use the various skills, it is up to the players to determine. I have omitted the skills that are useful to Rifleman in PVP, it is just that their are 6 that are useless, whearas other classes have none. Jawa Ion? lmao, yes with a 5.9 spd, compare to republic blaster at 230 at 1.0 speed at master. Yes I understand the Composite armor deal but compare
260/5.9= 44, you can get it faster but the dmg drops
230/1=230-70%=69
Hmm
They have the same AP too. And for even more whining, they have gotten a stun blaster too in this upcoming publish.
The point with TKA is that other melee professions do not get those abilities, or as many, with an equal expenditure of points. If TKA is truly a superior fighter, then make them go through Master Brawler.