Commando Archive
Thread: Detonation Droids...Here is what I know...
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garvin
Wed Apr 28, 2004 10:52 am
#1
I have been debating on whether or not to post all this info in one place...I hate sharing details on how something like this can be exploited, but looking at the BH, Smuggler and DE forumsit looks like word is already traveling fast...I also don't want this info to be used for rants involving "NERF'ing" another profession...BH's and Smuggler's deserve love...I just think that the way the Devs may have introduced this new bomb droids lacks the proper testing and balance issues...
First...let me start by saying (for those who love making accusations) that I am not posting this info because Commandos didn't get cert'd for these bomb droids...I still hope, even if these droids get restricted, that Commandos get added eventually and I openly encourage any Commando who currently wants to use these droids to use 6 skill points and get Novice Smuggler.
Here are some of the main issues:
- /detonatedroid command can be used up to 150m...NPC's will only aggro on a target when it's within 90m, so if used beyond 90m, the AI target won't aggro on you.
- The Droid can be set to follow target to be used as a homing missle...if the AI is not aggro'd on the target, it has not chance of preventing it's detonation.
- Once used in combat, the user can use a new droid deed to call another bomb droid into combat. This could lead to a large number of bomb droids used the same combat, possibly against the same target and even with the target NPC never going aggro on the user if outside 90m
- Bomb Droids do Blast Damage. A programmer once told me that "You are correct that blast damage is the perview of Commandos. That doesn't mean that there will never be any non-Commando weapons with Blast damage but those will be made to be specialty weapons and shouldn't intrude on the utility of Commando weapons." I feel that we have been intruded on (see the RL comparison below).
- Bomb Droids have a blast damage radius of around 17m which is greater then our Rocket Launcher.
- Certs for these new Bomb Droids are granted at Novice Smuggler and Novice Bounty Hunter.
- [edit add] If the user is withinthe 17m blast radiusof the exploding bomb droid, the user incurs NO DAMAGE. This is unlike our grenades which will do the user damage if within the blast radius.
Here is an image of the type of damage a MSE Bomb Droid can inflict PvE:
http://beatoutyourlove.com/images/afterboom.jpg
This damage was done at 71m according to the following screen shot taken just before:
http://beatoutyourlove.com/images/boom1.jpg
This clearly shows that1 simple MSE Bomb Droid can inflict from 3K to 7K worth of damage to surrounding targets...no image an R3 Bomb Droid where Detionation modules can be stacked for higher power.
Rocket Launchers:
The Devs have said that our Rocket Launchers are the reason we were not added to the Cert for these Droids...That our RLs are better and more useful then these Bomb Droids.
- Bomb Droids work up to 150m...RLs are limited to 64m
- Bomb Droids have perfect accuracy as long as the target is within 17m of the explosion...RL have around 60% accuracy at Master Level
- Bomb Droids have no HAM cost for the user...RLs typically uses a 4th of the user's HAM.
- Bomb Droids can be detonated at the same time the user is attacking with a ranged weapon....RLs force the Commando into a stationary postion to use making the Commando very vunerable to attack
- Bomb Droids have a 3 second countdown...RLs have a speef of 7.0 to 7.7 on average.
With all said and done...If you had 40K to spend on a crate of MSE Bomb Droids (5 per crate) or a Rocket Launcher (typically 30 shots, 18 of which will connect with target)...which would you choose? The weapon with user penalties, restrictions, poor speed and accuracy...or the weaponwith no user penalties, incredible accuracy andcan be used up to 150m with the good chance of not aggro'ing the target.
So the question is...with the introduction of this new weapon...Has the ranged Blast Damage Crown been passed to BHs and Smugglers?
Before folks go of ranting and getting all upset...I have also shared this info with the Devs and Programmers....and I've requested that the Devs live up to their words of keeping us the Blast Specialists...I hope to have some type of response soon...
Message Edited by garvin on 04-28-2004 04:24 PM
Skeptic666
Wed Apr 28, 2004 11:08 am
#2
well Garvin you made my day 
This will be the first day in a long time that I will have no wanting to log onto the game to check things out. I love ya for all the info but do you remmeber the movie Men in tights. If you have seen it. Do you remember when the routing ham was giving bad news to the so called king and he said if you say it in a funny way maybe it wont be so bad. Maybe if you could find a funny way to tell us I would not be so glum or grinding my teeth at my profession. DO they want to get rid of COmmando all together and are trying to get it down to just a few players before they delete it and give something to those that had it for compinsation?
This will be the first day in a long time that I will have no wanting to log onto the game to check things out. I love ya for all the info but do you remmeber the movie Men in tights. If you have seen it. Do you remember when the routing ham was giving bad news to the so called king and he said if you say it in a funny way maybe it wont be so bad. Maybe if you could find a funny way to tell us I would not be so glum or grinding my teeth at my profession. DO they want to get rid of COmmando all together and are trying to get it down to just a few players before they delete it and give something to those that had it for compinsation?
Daker-Naritus
Wed Apr 28, 2004 11:23 am
#3
Great stuff Garvin!
I don't think there is any way devs can argue with the points you have made, unless they just ignore them to remain infallible. (ex: TH (the SOE minister of information)- "The HAR is not broken, it is working as intended").
Good show!
garvin
Wed Apr 28, 2004 11:38 am
#4
I guess I could have started with a joke like:
Knock, Knock...
Who's there?
Crate of MSE Bomb Droids...
Crate of MSE Bomb Droids Wh...BOOM...BOOM...BOOM...BOOM...BOOM...
Skeptic666
Wed Apr 28, 2004 11:40 am
#5
see that wasnt so bad it made me smile through the agany of the stabing in our backs
Daker-Naritus
Wed Apr 28, 2004 11:57 am
#6
Hey Garvin, another discussion on this issue I thought was interesting....
There is a discussion going on in the DE boards where people are talking about what the Bomb Droids do. Basically, people are talking about the fact that if you use a bomb droid to destroy something you get (1) no experience and (2) no loot rights. One of the posters asks, "If you don't get loot rights and xp, what the heck are these droids good for?"
Ok, so developers say that they implemented these droids to give BHs and Smugglers more of a role in the adventure areas like the Geo cave and Corvette. All of the adventure areas have new loot that you can only get in that area. Question: Why would you raid one of the adventure areas using droid bombs, if it meant that you would not get loot rights for everything the bomb destroys? You wouldn't...it would be too risky if you missed loot chances.
Ok, now the opposite side of the issue... What situations are there were you do not care about xp and loot rights (in other words...where are these droids useful)?The only ones that come to my mind are: (1) PvP, and (2) base raiding. However, using these things in pvp would be somewhat silly, because you would pay 6k credits to do less than 400 damage to the other player (because of armor and the 75% reduction). What does that leave as the only real practical purposes of the bomb droids? Destroying AT-ST's and turrets in raids.
Food for thought...
StarNick
Wed Apr 28, 2004 1:45 pm
#7
those images are sickening...
i could only wish i do 7.2k dmg with my RL...
....we normally get aggroed while we're setting up our RLs....
...which results in them moving and firing at us...reducing our accuracy...
...and if we did blast radius damage..they all would agro (if no 1 shot kill..)...
...grr...
Oback
Wed Apr 28, 2004 1:49 pm
#8
that is pretty sick, i cant believe this is how we get ripped off. well thats how this game goes i guess
Raptor2k1
Wed Apr 28, 2004 3:09 pm
#9
I still hope, even if these droids get restricted, that Commandos get added eventually and I openly encourage any Commando who currently wants to use these droids to use 6 skill points and get Novice Commando.
Just as a heads up for clarity's sake for those reading this thread, you might want to change that unerlined part to smuggler, as I'm guessing that's what you meant.
Now, as to the issue at hand, all I can say is that with leverage like this, our consumables should be in for a whole lot of loving soon - I hope.
garvin
Wed Apr 28, 2004 3:15 pm
#10
Raptor2k1 wrote:
I still hope, even if these droids get restricted, that Commandos get added eventually and I openly encourage any Commando who currently wants to use these droids to use 6 skill points and get Novice Commando.
Just as a heads up for clarity's sake for those reading this thread, you might want to change that unerlined part to smuggler, as I'm guessing that's what you meant.
Now, as to the issue at hand, all I can say is that with leverage like this, our consumables should be in for a whole lot of loving soon - I hope.
Doh!...the jig is up...I have Commando on the brain...lol
Nice catch...can't believe I missed that...The correction has been made...glad to know you're watching my back...
And yes...the main gist of my posts to the devs recently have been using the idea of these new droids as leverage...Keep them in game...and it really doesn't matter what level they are set at or how exploitable they are in reality, as long as our BLAST weapons are a level higher...We are suppose to be the ranged Blast Damage specialists...so any Blast weapon that comes for another profession out should not out do our own (the Programmer said that himself)...So if they are not going to fix these droid bombs, they need to improve our blast weapons...
Eege
Wed Apr 28, 2004 3:30 pm
#11
Okay lets think of it this way. To get to commando you need to have unarmed 4 and master marksman. To get to smuggler you need unarmed 4 and pistol 4, which is part of master marksman. Other than the just pain in the butt of having to do so, would it almost be worth it to get novice smuggler for the bomb droids? I know my skill points are gone, but it is only 6 points.
Just a thought.
Hellshot
Wed Apr 28, 2004 4:07 pm
#12
Eege wrote:
Okay lets think of it this way. To get to commando you need to have unarmed 4 and master marksman. To get to smuggler you need unarmed 4 and pistol 4, which is part of master marksman. Other than the just pain in the butt of having to do so, would it almost be worth it to get novice smuggler for the bomb droids? I know my skill points are gone, but it is only 6 points.
Just a thought.
The issue isn't skill points. Its more an issue of exploitability. Right now you could use these to wittle down aHigh level mob (e.g. a krayt)to little health then swoop in for the kill and collect the loot. The other, lesser issue is that commandoes are supposed to be the undisputed kings (and queens) of ranged blast damage, and these new droids pack an equal or greater punch with far higher accuarcy, therebydiminshing the role of commandoes. I personally don't have a problem with bounty hunters having these toys, if the exploitable aspects were removed, as they do spend a ton of skill points already and these could be usefull for getting around white marks, but giving them to smugglers is going to lead to all sorts of mayhem with people just grabbing novice smuggler to use these (nothing against smugglers).
StarNick
Wed Apr 28, 2004 4:21 pm
#13
heh wow i missed that too..oh well...i guess i was more tired than i thought...
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