Commando Archive

The argument that commando's can use the marksmen skills warning shot and surpression fire tomake up for the 2.5x melee modifier does not work. Well it might if you could hit when useing these attacks. People associate our accuracy with the flame specials with general accuracy. (they are not the same). We get a accuracy bonus when useing flame specials. I tried out the working marksmen shots with the flamethrower and came up with a honest ratio of about 1 out of 10 hits. With the huge deley of the flamethrower it is impossible to get another shot off before a mob can close the distance. The following template is my attempt to come to some sort of compromise. Please keep the responses productive and keep from flaming. But instead try and make suggestions. Remember where here to enjoy the game (not try and piss on each other).

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1.make Flamethrower inaccurate past 20m. I mean that it misses 99% of the time past 22m even with standard attacks. THIS IS ESSENTIAL!! also let the melee professions have their toughness bonuses apply against it.

2. remove the 2.5x melee damage off the flamethrower, and for the love of god lower the wounds the specials cause, and the DOT. (this is where all the commando hate is comming from)

3. Lower the dmg on the flamethrower by 150 dmg off the max

4. Make the HAR accurate out to 64m more inline with other rifles.

5. Keep the 2.5x melee modifier on the HAR.

6. Remove the cone attacks from the HAR completely.

7. Lower the dmg on the HAR by 70-100 dmg off the max. (this will take some fine tuning)

8. Adjust the dmg modifers on acid single 1 to be around ~2000-2500 dmg (PVE non armored) Have Acid single2 be around ~3500-4500 dmg (PVE non-armored). This would acctually make acid single 1 comparable to a laser rifle with headshot 2, and acid single 2 slightly less than headshot 3 with a T21. (remember the T21 is AP3)

9. Make the Acid rifle specials have HUGE deleys. FAR more than they are now. like 12 seconds at master, and even worse at low levels. This would be 4 times the deley for a master rifleman. Trying to balance here. Fireing a acid special on a mob solo should be a gamble with your life. What i'm trying to do with having such a long deley is keep people from safely soloing. AND give true riflemen enough time to get off 3 shots to our 1. (make sense? I don't want riflemen getting killed by any commando weapon at 64m with the possible exceptionof the disposibles, in which case that was one expensive kill)

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I don't pretend to know all the numbers that would be needed to really balance the HARagainst the T21, to where it would still be a viable weapon for the commando but not be more viable as a true rifle. I was hoping that the respectfull and coporative part of the rifleman community could help balance the delays to accoplish that. There are many tools that can be used to balance the HAR. (cutting the damage and giving AP1) as an example. I would like to hear what kind of rifle the riflemen would feel comforable with us having.

I normally would not recomend such extreame and drastic changes but the commando comunity seems despreate for a change. Maybe we can come up with a template that everyone can agree on and let MasterSynn approch the devs with it. (and having the other corospondents behind it, they *might* listen).

There are MANY general combat problems that we as paying customers as a whole need to get addressed. The DOT's ignoreing the 75% pvp reduction, and the use of damage modifiers instead of range modifiers used for balanceing. But we need to decide if these should stay or if we should get these fixed first. Because it will effect any balanceing that occurs.

Ummm..... at master I still have a 20 second delay with the har on a 5.2 second weapon. 9 Seconds at 4.3 FT.

As far as the damage reduction, no thanks, that's back in the direction we started =\

Theedage, Thank you for that productive post, that helped so much.

and have you ever used a stopwatch to really time the delay?? I'm willing to bet its not 20 seconds.

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Theedage wrote:
I have timestamps enabled on my client so I'm staring at the combat logs upon attack until next performed action. Those are exactly the times as the game records to me.

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Yup yup.. Not arguing with ya.

Just wanted to make sure we're all on the same wavelength.

Unlike most of the people that I keep reading on this board, I like the new damage that we are taking. Too many times have things been discussed on how to make things balanced, BUT they are not truely makeing them balanced.

They are just making them the same, with a different look. At this point in the game melee now has a purpose, BH are still 1v1, medics do thier job, and so do commando's, but most people are missing the great job a commando can do in a group.

Commando right now is for dealing AoE big damage with grenades, Single with RL ASL and others. And DoT attacks from FT's. Why do you want to change that it makes us different, unique, and pretty **edit** cool if i do say so myself.

When I first heard about commando's I thought oh yeah that is for me, imagining to be like Jesse "The Body" Ventura from "Predator" shooting aheavy repeating blaster ( best SW example i could think of to a Mini gun ) and guess what, other than the repeating blaster being in the game, that is pretty much what we are.

I think of the line "I aint got time to bleed" and think hey he takes alot of damage too, lol. I posted this a while ago ( Fencer board ) about balancing proffessions OTHER THAN dps ratings and overall damage.

What I think would truly make Commando balanced and alot more fun would be:

1. A better variety of Generic Heavy weapons
Possible Non-mobile weapons, have to be set in place to fire. AP 4 but even higher melee penalty
2. Status Effect Grenades
Sticky Grenade ( Slow effect )
Flash Grenade ( Blind )
Stink Gas ( Dizzy

and lastly a overall change that would make SWG alot better and more tactical

3. Have armour effect movement rate.

k. my HAR is a tad faster .2 that may make up for our 6 second differance. But either way our speed with the HAR is the same at novice as it is at master. So we shouldn't use its current abilitys for any kind of balanceing.

The reason for the lower dmg is so we can increase its range to 64m. We have to compromise somewhere.

Fury, Because of the cost of the HW and the gernades I don't even consider them a viable weapon. Right now 2 standard shots from a flamethrower does more dmg than a gernade in half the time.

HW are FAR to expensive. cannons go for 15k+ credits and RL go for 50k credits. And thier accuracy for that kind of cost is a turn off. if each stack of gernades were 50 uses and the HW were like 80-100 uses I might change my mind.

I was trying to give commandos a weapon that would give them a spot in any group. Flamethrower for up close with mid-high dmg, and be able to take a few hits, but not as many hits as a TKA. and the rifle for the hanging back plinking from a distance.

I agree, however what you proposed does not 'fit' with what a commando should be. That would just be making a commando have a rifle. This is the way I see it.

Every proffession should have a purpose, something they are strong against, and something they are weak against. Rock paper sciccors basic cenario.

Pistoleer beats Swordsman
Commando beats Pistoleer
Swordsman beats Commando

I know that is a stupid scenario but it is better to me than all classes being equal. What is the point to a proffession if the only difference is cosmetics?

Agreed we need to make the Commando tree's more effective and balanced, but not make it the same as everything else. Which unfortunatly the nerf cryiers make it impossible. A game based on Rock paper sciccors would involve more tactics and less the more damage the fastest wins. And would also force players to group to be more effective.

"But I dont want to have to group to kill anything in the game" Then why the hell are you playing online?
(That is not meant to you Valentine)

The question is how do you make the Commando proffesion unique, give it strenghts and weaknesses, while not just makeing it a cosmetic change? I dont have the answer only ideas.

Same here Fury. I'm hoping that someone says something that just makes it all click, but we both know that I can wish in one hand and........

I'm not sure what purpose disposible HW could be and theyfit in any template. Make them accurate and they are in the riflemans domain. Make them inacurate and we won't use them. Makeing them dmg high won't be enough, because I would rather get one shot off I know will hit rather than use something thatis assured to get me killed if I miss. I'm at a loss of what to do. I know that I very rarely see them used, and when I do it is just to show off the animation.

I'll be honest, that i'm thinking about untraining my HAR and HW branches for CH. I can get them back if they are ever worth it or Master becomes worthy. This would be the second time that I have untrained Commando skills (if I do it), and it is a bitter pill to swallow.