Commando Archive

Fact:; People take commando just for flame IV.

Why? Because it is the most powerful weapon in pve and was (with revenge tef) unstopable in pvp.

Fact:; Master commando's are pissed.

Why? Because, like everyone else, they see what the FT is worth. Now, add to this that the other three lines (to include the LP), wheather they are broken or not, are not applicable as workhorse weapons. This then causes tunnel vision about the FT and they are upset that they spend time and points and don't get anything for it. At least not anything better.

What happens next? You have all seen it. Constant whining and infighting about what to do to seperate masters from dabblers in regards to the FT. (anyone see the problem yet?)

If not, I will spell it out for you.

The problem is that too much crap in this game is broken or out of balance. The answer is not nerfing what works, it is fixing what doesn't. It is almost like the devs are saying, "well, most of the skills are broken, so we better nerf the ones that aren't so they don't stand out."

We also have another problem. We can't seem to get past the Master/Dabbler nonsense. I know some of you think that moving more skills to master and making the FT branch weaker is a good idea. But, you are either shortsighted or just plain stupid. Dabblers don't cause griefing/nerfing.

Idiots cause griefing, dabblers and masters alike.

Nerfs are caused by percieved inbalance.

If the devs take this approach and move the good skills to master, some of you you actually believe this is going to solve our nerf problems. Some of you seem to think that because people dabble, they are unwilling to get master. This is foolish. People dabble because it allows them to make the best character possible. Not because they don't have the drive or passion to reach master. If you really believe that, then you really think a little too much of yourself, this game or both. If indeed, these skills and the BH eyeshot and the dizzy/kd combos all got moved to master, you better bet your ass that to master is where everyone would go. Why? Cause that would then be the best character.

Then what? The classes would still be unbalanced, one profession would still out kill another and people would still cry for nerfs.

STOP THIS STUPID, CHILDISH, SHORTSIGHTED, WHINEY CRAP!

Focus on the real issues.

P.S. I think the news about the bonuses for master that have shown up on test are good thing.

Fantastic thread. It doesn't help much of anything, other than displaying your feelings toward the commando nonsense that has been going on for far to long now. However I agree with everything you said and I wish more people felt the same way.

The trouble is in 2 things, omg damage when getting a certain point in a skill <flamesingle2> and the bleed over in benefits when training skills in certain classes, example pistol user with bounty hunter/pistoleer/smuggler skills. For the commando its the huga damage and dot from that, for the pistol specialists its all the stacked benefits, specials at 1 second a pop. Its like the game developers never thought a person would min/max their character in this game for skills.

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sed

We also have another problem. We can't seem to get past the Master/Dabbler nonsense. I know some of you think that moving more skills to master and making the FT branch weaker is a good idea. But, you are either shortsighted or just plain stupid. Dabblers don't cause griefing/nerfing.

Idiots cause griefing, dabblers and masters alike.

Nerfs are caused by percieved inbalance.

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yes thats true but the flamer was never over powerd

and no it ant griefing commandos it howerds of commandos when u have 1700 ppl that just have one skill line of something on the same server its going to get nerfd some way or another

c were ur coming from but i still say singel 2 needs to be moved to masterjust like eye shot needs to moved to master for bhs

WHOA CHIEFTON, dont *EVEN* compare flame single II to eye shot. If you only get up to the Flamethrower 2 skill box, your going to miss about 75% of the time, and youll have massive delays on your shots. At BH pistol II, youll be able to shoot fast as hell, and your accuracy will be awesome, because wow! the marksman skill mods are actually useful to a bounty hunter. Eye shot needed to be moved up to BH pistol 4, maybe not master, but definitely pistol 4, because there were just too **edit** many ch/bounty hunters. Gee, whats a man to do when facing 3 grauls, or 3 merek assasins, or 2 rancors + "The whoring of the Eye Shot"? My point to the guy who posted above me, Flame single II is a flamethrower 4 special, and only then are specials useful, because otherwise you, miss, and you die to a blasted CHEF or artisan because you cant do a **edit** thing but stand there and get shot in the face. And for the love of god dont shaft the dabblers. I mean **edit**, since so many of you are so gung-ho about nerfing the commando up and making flamesingle II a master skill, why dont we just cap the skill points so that all you can get is master commando. No med skills, no scouting, just master commando. Oh, whats that? You spent those skill points you had after commando on pistoleer? Or medic? Or smuggling? DAMNATION TO YOU, DABBLER! Thats right, im a dabbler......and I dont wanna hear any more of you jackasses complaining about dabbling. Maybe if SOE offered me something useful for mastering a class, Id consider doing that. But they havent. So ive got to dabble to be effective. I really need to start using paragraphs...

"yes thats true but the flamer was never over powerd

and no it ant griefing commandos it howerds of commandos when u have 1700 ppl that just have one skill line of something on the same server its going to get nerfd some way or another

c were ur coming from but i still say singel 2 needs to be moved to masterjust like eye shot needs to moved to master for bhs"

1. Right, the FT is not over powered. But, the DoT is broken. That makes it look overpowered. Also, revenge tef (and tef in general)is stupid and that made the FT over powered in pvp.

2. Yes, lots of people have Flame IV. They have it because it is an effective weapon. Moving the Flame specials or any other weapon specials to master is not going to fix the problem. People are going to build whatever character template they think works the best.

People that dabble, do so because they see that as the best way to make the strongest character. If becoming a master was the best way then everyone would be a master and you would still have the same problem.

MOVING SKILLS TO MASTER IS NOT THE ANSWER!

The only thing that will be accomplished bymoving important skills to master is making more people become masters. The professions will still be unbalanced and people will still cry for nerfs. That is why moving skills around is a short sighted fix.

The answer is....................

FOURTY-TWO!!!!!!!!

Yeah, but what is the question?

You all do realise, of course, that when flameSingle2, or whatever ability people gravitate to, is moved to Master, this uberskill that used to cost 29 points to obtain, will now cost 63 points?

That's bound to make it a less palatable choice, perhaps even a "non-optimal" choice for an uber template. Not alot of optimised templates can come with more than 30 points required if this kind of skill move takes place.

Oops... my math is off. It's late, ok?

Forget about all that 29 and 63 skill pt stuff. I'm just trying to point out that the difference between a skill at Tier 4 and a skill at Master Tier is 14 X 3 + 1 = 43 skill points.

That's a major change that will upset many "leet" templates, and it won't be that easy to "just take master".

Khannivore:

Ironically, Commando is one of the most expensive to master. Sigh, 64 skill points on a broken class, and yet I do it, why? Because I'm a glutton, a glutton for pain.

So my point is,

Quote:

"I'm just trying to point out that the difference between a skill at Tier 4 and a skill at Master Tier is 14 X 3 + 1 = 43 skill points."

Is inaccurate in a way that hurts your point. Its actually, 14x3+6= 48 skill points more.

But, in any case, I guess I just post because it annoys me than novice commando is2 pts. and master is6 rather than 1, and I NEED THAT LAST POINT for my template. Sigh. Also, that backwards because Novice commando is actually relatively powerful, and the mastery is relatively weak.

Jokes on me. And, before it turns out I'm wrong, I'm only 99% sure that commando is 64 skill points. 1%, Icould be wrong, and my LAN won't connect to SWG at the moment...

Athein

"That's bound to make it a less palatable choice, perhaps even a "non-optimal" choice for an uber template. Not alot of optimised templates can come with more than 30 points required if this kind of skill move takes place."

You are missing the point. It does not matter that it takes longer to get master or costs more pts. Whatever ends up being the best template for pve/pvp is what people are going to take. Master or not. And you will still have the same problems. One template or group of skills will be too strong and it will get nerfed.

Where the skills are or what it takes to get them does not matter. The skills that are broken need to be fixed and all the combat professions need to be balanced (note; this should not suggest that they should be the same. I have no problem with one being a better pvp and one a pve etc.)

If they don't make a serious commitment to balance the skills, it will just be another month or so till people move their templates around and the nerf cries start again.