Commando Archive
Thread: You just don't get it.
I was in a group of players tonight..about 17 players total and I was one of two commandos. I know it seems like alot of players are commados and there are alot of people running around with flame throwers.
There are however not near as many as there are running around with Scout Blasters. I also remember a post from a Dev stating that some of the most powerfull players will not have mastered Elite Professions but uses skills from different Professions thatcompliment each other.
I will stick with FlameFour. It is a great close range weapon to compliment myTKM.
AlufNull wrote:
You are missing the point. It does not matter that it takes longer to get master or costs more pts. Whatever ends up being the best template for pve/pvp is what people are going to take. Master or not. And you will still have the same problems. One template or group of skills will be too strong and it will get nerfed.
Where the skills are or what it takes to get them does not matter. The skills that are broken need to be fixed and all the combat professions need to be balanced (note; this should not suggest that they should be the same. I have no problem with one being a better pvp and one a pve etc.)
If they don't make a serious commitment to balance the skills, it will just be another month or so till people move their templates around and the nerf cries start again.
Skill point cost is part of the balance for skills. By making a particular ability more expensive to gain, it forces people to think more about their choices, instead of going for just that one, cheap uber skill.
However, I do agree that many other skills need improvement and fixing. They should fix alot of this stuff before deciding whether the current working skills ought to be moved around or not. Just like defence modsshould have beenfixed before "adjusting" KD, etc.
Has anyone noticed that there are not many people who mastered a proffesion complaining of moving the most powerfull attacks to master level.
Forgive me is I am wrong but those who dabble do not want to master a proffesion they want the best character for the points they spend. I have no problem with this I think its great you have found a template that works for you. I just personally feel that a person that masters a proffesion should gain a great deal over someone who dabbles in the proffesion.
An example of why I think this still works for everyone. A dabbler can get enough CH points to get a decent creature to tank for them. That combined with flame single 1 is still a powerfull attack. Your chances of missing are lowered because what ever you are attacking isnt moving anymore. A TKA could use knockdown on anything then flame single 1 them switch back to TKA and battle as the DOT takes its damage on the target. These attacks also go with flame cone to take out mobs of creatures.
Now tell me please what is wrong with this scenerio. As a dabbler you can still have a very affective player character that can do massive amounts of damage. As a master of a proffesion you are more profecient with your weapons and do more damage but you do not get to have as many skills as a dabbler so you are more limited in your tactics.
In conclusion I know the above situations work because thats the template I used to achieve master commando. As I progressed up the master tree I had to drop skills points in other areas so I was more limited in what I could achieve and my tactics changed. Other than the opinion you as a dabbler want as much bang for your time as possible we at master want the same thing.
No, no, no and NO!
It does not matter where the best skills are.When they are out of balance (i.e. flame dot is broken and does way too much damage, eyeshot fires too fast against an unhealable pool) they allow for characters that have those skills to out perform those that don't.
THIS IS THE REASON PEOPLE CRY FOR NERFS.
If those skills are moved to master all you are going toget is hundreds of more masters. Why? Because that is where the best skills will be.
All you are doing by moving a broken skill to master is delaying the inevitable. It will just be another month or so while everyone rebuilds their template into the new uber character. Then, guess what? The nerf crys will start all over again. Why? Because the skills are still going to be out of balance.
iv done alot of asking diffrent profesions wat they think needs to hapen befor they remove the 2.5 melee thing and hers wat i got
1alot of ppl saying one hit kills lol 
and they were emitily followed by some one of the same proffesion saying ur a fool just get armor or shilld gens or even buff like most ppl that do that have a brian
so i gess this is fine
2 dot that dot its to powerfull and to wounding followed by ya ur right it needs fixed this is the nuber one thing on commandos
so i gess the dot needs to be lowerd 
i knew that wat they want but i dint want it to chang
3 how many there is of them theres way to many runing around followed by ya there is to many and there all flame 4 thats y they got nerfd
so wat dos that meen that meens nerf thos flame 4 not the masters get rid of thos flame 4 dont hurt the masters move that one hit with to master ..... its just like the eye shot alot has ben sed about it goin master and u no wat i herd alot are ither going to go master or drop bh if that hapens go figur
AlufNull wrote:
No, no, no and NO!
It does not matter where the best skills are.When they are out of balance (i.e. flame dot is broken and does way too much damage, eyeshot fires too fast against an unhealable pool) they allow for characters that have those skills to out perform those that don't.
THIS IS THE REASON PEOPLE CRY FOR NERFS.
If those skills are moved to master all you are going toget is hundreds of more masters. Why? Because that is where the best skills will be.
All you are doing by moving a broken skill to master is delaying the inevitable. It will just be another month or so while everyone rebuilds their template into the new uber character. Then, guess what? The nerf crys will start all over again. Why? Because the skills are still going to be out of balance.
It does matter where the skills are, Aluf, because some things just cannot be rebuilt around, such as massive skill point costs.
If Johny d00d realises he has to drop CH or medic skills, or heaven forbid, both,from his uber template just to get Eyeshot or flameSingle2, do you think he will? What if he has to sacrifice some of that uber pistol speed, or get rid of meditate?
Waiting another month won't magically give you the 40+ skill points required to get Master; something else in that uber template has to give. Then it won't be so uber anymore, now will it?
That's the main reason why people are so free with nerf calls against commandos and BH, BTW. Nobody considers skill point investment when considering balance. They just see how good one skill is, without taking a look at how much it costs to attain said skill.
"Then it won't be so uber anymore, now will it?"
No, that template wont, but another version of it will. Flame single is the most powerful PvE skill in the game. Eyeshot and the KD/Dizzy combos are the same for pvp.
Sure people will have to make choices about what to spend their pts on, but they are still going to use these skills. Why? Because the are so much more powerful then all the others.
The balancing of the skill itself is important.
The deves could move all three of the above mentioned skills to master and make all the master professions cost 250pts and it wont make a bit of difference. Everyone that wants to have the best PvE character will have master commando and a non ch tank. And all the PvPs will find out what is more devestating, eyeshot or kd and eventually all of them will be that profession.
Then, everyone else will still feel inferior and they will all cry nerf.
Its great that I'm seeing more of these and less of the whining. You nailed it. I hope to see more posts like yours and the hard evidence variety and less of the "I must be uber" variety. Which I believe we will see. The TEF wound griefers are gone - finally! Way too many of those idiots were running around. I think Master Synn has gotten at least some of our points across.. master bonus on TC? I've been away for a few days, so I'll be digging for info on that next. Anyway, great post.. keeep em coming.